Tip Smoke
03-26-2003, 11:41 PM
#7
Tip Smoke
I was going to put smoke cartridges on my wingtips but "pyrotechnic devices including smoke bombs" aren't covered by AMA insurance.... BS....
I tried to contact our fearless AMA leaders (ahem) but of course they were too busy working (ahem) to reply to me, whether I need a special waiver or what not....
Considering where I fly at (an airport), I'd rather not take a chance....
I tried to contact our fearless AMA leaders (ahem) but of course they were too busy working (ahem) to reply to me, whether I need a special waiver or what not....
Considering where I fly at (an airport), I'd rather not take a chance....
03-27-2003, 12:53 PM
#8
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Champaign Il
Posts: 390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tip Smoke
I emailed Roland and his response was that they ere not commercially available. There is rumour than hobby lobby will be importing a 3 or 4 minute duration equivalent in the very near future.
03-27-2003, 01:34 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Billund, DENMARK
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
03-28-2003, 02:18 AM
#16
Tip Smoke
Here's what I was going to use.
http://www.regin.com/cart.html
I was going to mount it on my wingtip simply with a hose clamp at the leading edge, with a simple rocket motor igniter stuck in the back. I still have 4 of the orange 4 minute ones. They make a good bit of smoke and are real light.
5 for $25. Not bad at all really.
Does anyone know how to get around the AMA rule against them? Do you need a waiver?
http://www.regin.com/cart.html
I was going to mount it on my wingtip simply with a hose clamp at the leading edge, with a simple rocket motor igniter stuck in the back. I still have 4 of the orange 4 minute ones. They make a good bit of smoke and are real light.
5 for $25. Not bad at all really.
Does anyone know how to get around the AMA rule against them? Do you need a waiver?
03-28-2003, 11:41 AM
#17
Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: , ,
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tip Smoke
Hi
ok, I dont think its practical so get them from tower hobbies as the post would be too much for a few minutes of smoke, but I have smoke pellets that when burnt give off a good burst of smoke, but the problem is lighting them once in the air, the tower hobbies ones have a fuse so you light it fly and thats it, but I wanted to ignite it in the air and use a short burst during a particular maneouver and then be able to put new pellets in a go again. I have machined a cylinder to hold everything, but its just a case of what to use to light it, an electric charge is the way to go, probably on Ni-crome wire if it will get hot enough, I dont really want any naked flames or detonators to ignite the smoke, as this would be easily done but far too dangerous!
What do you think?
Mike
ok, I dont think its practical so get them from tower hobbies as the post would be too much for a few minutes of smoke, but I have smoke pellets that when burnt give off a good burst of smoke, but the problem is lighting them once in the air, the tower hobbies ones have a fuse so you light it fly and thats it, but I wanted to ignite it in the air and use a short burst during a particular maneouver and then be able to put new pellets in a go again. I have machined a cylinder to hold everything, but its just a case of what to use to light it, an electric charge is the way to go, probably on Ni-crome wire if it will get hot enough, I dont really want any naked flames or detonators to ignite the smoke, as this would be easily done but far too dangerous!
What do you think?
Mike
03-28-2003, 12:56 PM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Billund, DENMARK
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tip Smoke
Originally posted by Welsh3D
sorry just found the details at the bottom!
Does it need to be manually lit?? with a match or something i guess?!!!
sorry just found the details at the bottom!
Does it need to be manually lit?? with a match or something i guess?!!!
05-13-2003, 10:32 PM
#19
My Feedback: (45)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Lexington,
KY
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anybody tried these
Looks like Hobby Lobby just got some smoke cartridges. Are these the same as that industrial supply place linked earlier?
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/atricks.htm
Regarding AMA...
The safety code isn't very clear about this type of pyrotechnic. I've highlighted the part that makes me think smoke is not a problem.
7) I will not operate models with pyrotechnics (any device that explodes, burns, or propels a projectile of any kind) including, but not limited to, rockets, explosive bombs dropped from models, smoke bombs, all explosive gases (such as hydrogen filled balloons), ground mounted devices launching a projectile. The only exceptions permitted are rockets flown in accordance with the National Model Rocketry Safety Code or those permanently attached (as per JATO use); also those items authorized for Air Show Team use as defined by AST Advisory Committee (document available from AMA HQ). In any case, models using rocket motors as a primary means of propulsion are limited to a maximum weight of 3.3 pounds and a G series motor. Note: A model aircraft is defined as an aircraft with or without engine, not able to carry a human being.
Since a smoke cartridge is just as permanently attached as a JATO cartridge wouldn't it fall into the same excpetion? At the very least couldn't I just say that these are a very weak JATO device?
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/atricks.htm
Regarding AMA...
The safety code isn't very clear about this type of pyrotechnic. I've highlighted the part that makes me think smoke is not a problem.
7) I will not operate models with pyrotechnics (any device that explodes, burns, or propels a projectile of any kind) including, but not limited to, rockets, explosive bombs dropped from models, smoke bombs, all explosive gases (such as hydrogen filled balloons), ground mounted devices launching a projectile. The only exceptions permitted are rockets flown in accordance with the National Model Rocketry Safety Code or those permanently attached (as per JATO use); also those items authorized for Air Show Team use as defined by AST Advisory Committee (document available from AMA HQ). In any case, models using rocket motors as a primary means of propulsion are limited to a maximum weight of 3.3 pounds and a G series motor. Note: A model aircraft is defined as an aircraft with or without engine, not able to carry a human being.
Since a smoke cartridge is just as permanently attached as a JATO cartridge wouldn't it fall into the same excpetion? At the very least couldn't I just say that these are a very weak JATO device?
05-14-2003, 02:40 PM
#20
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wellsville,
NY
Posts: 914
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tip Smoke
I'm with ya on that one!!! I want to put some of these on my giant scale Staudacher!!!
I used the ones from Tower before on my old Balsa USA Smoothie.. You do have to light the fuse with a lighter, but other than that they work really well, and the smoke is SOOOO Dense!!!
Let us know if anyone finds out anything more with the AMA!!
deck
I used the ones from Tower before on my old Balsa USA Smoothie.. You do have to light the fuse with a lighter, but other than that they work really well, and the smoke is SOOOO Dense!!!
Let us know if anyone finds out anything more with the AMA!!
deck
05-15-2003, 04:06 PM
#21
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wellsville,
NY
Posts: 914
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tip Smoke
Official email from Carl Maroney... in charge of AMA safety code clarrifications....
Yes smoke cartridges are acceptable as long as the device remains attached to the model.
-----Original Message-----
From: Vo Decker, IS Manager [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 10:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: AMA Safety codes clarifications
Hello,
My name is Vo Decker, AMA 117021. I was wondering what the AMA had in the codes for smoke cartridges affixed to the airplanes? I see that Hobby Lobby and Tower has smoke cartridges made for them, but I wanted to see what the AMA's stance on these are, and if they violate policy coverage or not? I have a giant scale Staudacher I'm almost done with, and would love to put these on my wingtips, but don't want to violate any policy in doing so. Please advise.
Sincerely,
Vo Decker
AMA 117021
.
The cartridges that I was referring to:
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/atricks
Yes smoke cartridges are acceptable as long as the device remains attached to the model.
-----Original Message-----
From: Vo Decker, IS Manager [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 10:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: AMA Safety codes clarifications
Hello,
My name is Vo Decker, AMA 117021. I was wondering what the AMA had in the codes for smoke cartridges affixed to the airplanes? I see that Hobby Lobby and Tower has smoke cartridges made for them, but I wanted to see what the AMA's stance on these are, and if they violate policy coverage or not? I have a giant scale Staudacher I'm almost done with, and would love to put these on my wingtips, but don't want to violate any policy in doing so. Please advise.
Sincerely,
Vo Decker
AMA 117021
.
The cartridges that I was referring to:
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/atricks
05-15-2003, 05:34 PM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: summerton, SC
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tip Smoke
I just tried this last weekend..
Just for the record, don't try this underneath the fuse.. it doesn't work!
I tried it on a rascal 40, but the prop wash diluted the smoke too much.
I made a ignition system for it too..
It probably will work better out on the wings..
Rob
Just for the record, don't try this underneath the fuse.. it doesn't work!
I tried it on a rascal 40, but the prop wash diluted the smoke too much.
I made a ignition system for it too..
It probably will work better out on the wings..
Rob
05-25-2003, 09:31 PM
#23
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tip Smoke
Good idea but would you get memorized looking at the smoke as the plane flies to to the nearest tree or ground ? My luck it would catch the wing on fire or melt the covering.... Other than that I bet it is a hoot !
05-27-2003, 12:12 AM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Jupiter, FL
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tip Smoke
DanP. is on the right track.I have used those fuses in model rocketry.You take your fingernail and scratch the end exposing some of the powder.Then they light VERY easy.
I taped a wire to the fuse and attatched leads to the other ends of the wire.You know where I'm going with this.An electrical current from two AA's heated the wire hot enough to light the fuse.
Since the Rx doesn't send enough of a current to heat the wire enough,a micro servo between a battery and fuse could make the connection.
Easy do for in-flight ignition.
I taped a wire to the fuse and attatched leads to the other ends of the wire.You know where I'm going with this.An electrical current from two AA's heated the wire hot enough to light the fuse.
Since the Rx doesn't send enough of a current to heat the wire enough,a micro servo between a battery and fuse could make the connection.
Easy do for in-flight ignition.
05-27-2003, 12:38 AM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: summerton, SC
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tip Smoke
what I did that works well is to use a 2 amp speed control, plugged in to channel 5 or any open one that you can assign to..
hook the speed control and a small battery to it, and it ramps up the voltage fine..
hook the speed control and a small battery to it, and it ramps up the voltage fine..