CG of a Bipe?
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CG of a Bipe?
Hi all,
Bought an ARF bipe, but the location of the CG just looks wrong (based on several years worth of rc flying.)
Any way to figure out the cg and double check their figure?
TIA,
Steve
Bought an ARF bipe, but the location of the CG just looks wrong (based on several years worth of rc flying.)
Any way to figure out the cg and double check their figure?
TIA,
Steve
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RE: CG of a Bipe?
I think that there is a thread on this subject,but from what I remember of it is you add the two wingspan cords together and go from there. I would imagine that about 25% of that would be about right. Depending on what the airfoil is makes some difference. You do know to test the balance over some tall grass ,that way you could get some feel as to how it will fly without a wipeout.
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RE: CG of a Bipe?
Thanks. I should have done a search first.
Looks like the answer is to add the effective chord of all the wings (don't include any overlap) and go from 22%-25% back from the LE of the forwardmost wing.
Any other thoughts, I'm listening....
Steve
Looks like the answer is to add the effective chord of all the wings (don't include any overlap) and go from 22%-25% back from the LE of the forwardmost wing.
Any other thoughts, I'm listening....
Steve
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RE: CG of a Bipe?
That's the short and quick method and seems to be proving out nicely. However I think you'll find that unless the tail area is either a bit low or the tail length really short you'll be just fine with a more normal 25 to 28% as a starting point and be ready to move it back a little more based on flight testing. Use the RCU Search funtion to look for dive test
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RE: CG of a Bipe?
ORIGINAL: h-ray-RCA
Looks like the answer is to add the effective chord of all the wings (don't include any overlap) and go from 22%-25% back from the LE of the forwardmost wing.
Steve
Looks like the answer is to add the effective chord of all the wings (don't include any overlap) and go from 22%-25% back from the LE of the forwardmost wing.
Steve
On a plane with a lot of stagger, such as a WACO, the balance point may be well over half way back on the top wing's chord. On a plane with little or no stagger, such as a SPAD, the balance point will be around the main spar, usually.
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RE: CG of a Bipe?
Ok gang, have a look at these numbers and see if they make sense:
Upper wing: 5 3/8β chord
Lower wing: 4 ΒΌβ chord
Overlap: 1 Β½β
Effective span: 6 7/8β
25% of 6 7/8= 1.71β should be the actual CG.
Mfg lists cg as being 3 Β½β from LE of upper wing.
Thoughts?
TIA,
Steve
#7
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RE: CG of a Bipe?
If the wings are not swept back and both wings the same span, I'd go with the 1.7 to 2 inch back point. If the wings are swept then you have to find the mean aerodynamic chord and go from there.
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RE: CG of a Bipe?
ORIGINAL: Rodney
If the wings are not swept back and both wings the same span, I'd go with the 1.7 to 2 inch back point. If the wings are swept then you have to find the mean aerodynamic chord and go from there.
If the wings are not swept back and both wings the same span, I'd go with the 1.7 to 2 inch back point. If the wings are swept then you have to find the mean aerodynamic chord and go from there.
Nope, both are straight wings so it's sounding more and more like the 1.7-2.0" CG is the way to go.
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RE: CG of a Bipe?
Couple of thoughts, having scratch built a bipe or two
First, hard to tell from the picture, but it LOOKS like you're measuring that 3.5" from out near the wing tip. Unless specified otherwise, it's fairly common to measure the CG from the CENTER of the top wing on most bipes. Not saying either way is 'right or wrong", just common, and possibly worth checking. Looks, by rough guess, that the 3.5" back in the center would be close to your 1.7" figure out near the tip.
Second, when all else fails, aside from it being time to get a new all else, I've had consistent good luck with bipes using the top wing's spar as a starting CG point. Again, this is at the center of the wing.
And, finally, in general, any CG that falls between the front and rear cabane strut attach points (on a bipe so equipped) will usually result in at least a flyable machine. I've never come across one whose "safe and comfy" CG was outside of that range, but obviously, that's a fairly subjective judgment.
Hope some of that helps!
**EDIT** Just re=read above, and saw you'd said both were straight wings...if that's the case, then clearly suggestion 1 above is moot...however, that top wing LOOKS to be swept back a bit in the pic. Could just be an illusion.
First, hard to tell from the picture, but it LOOKS like you're measuring that 3.5" from out near the wing tip. Unless specified otherwise, it's fairly common to measure the CG from the CENTER of the top wing on most bipes. Not saying either way is 'right or wrong", just common, and possibly worth checking. Looks, by rough guess, that the 3.5" back in the center would be close to your 1.7" figure out near the tip.
Second, when all else fails, aside from it being time to get a new all else, I've had consistent good luck with bipes using the top wing's spar as a starting CG point. Again, this is at the center of the wing.
And, finally, in general, any CG that falls between the front and rear cabane strut attach points (on a bipe so equipped) will usually result in at least a flyable machine. I've never come across one whose "safe and comfy" CG was outside of that range, but obviously, that's a fairly subjective judgment.
Hope some of that helps!
**EDIT** Just re=read above, and saw you'd said both were straight wings...if that's the case, then clearly suggestion 1 above is moot...however, that top wing LOOKS to be swept back a bit in the pic. Could just be an illusion.
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RE: CG of a Bipe?
ORIGINAL: gboulton
Couple of thoughts, having scratch built a bipe or two
First, hard to tell from the picture, but it LOOKS like you're measuring that 3.5" from out near the wing tip. Unless specified otherwise, it's fairly common to measure the CG from the CENTER of the top wing on most bipes. Not saying either way is 'right or wrong", just common, and possibly worth checking. Looks, by rough guess, that the 3.5" back in the center would be close to your 1.7" figure out near the tip.
**EDIT** Just re=read above, and saw you'd said both were straight wings...if that's the case, then clearly suggestion 1 above is moot...however, that top wing LOOKS to be swept back a bit in the pic. Could just be an illusion.
Couple of thoughts, having scratch built a bipe or two
First, hard to tell from the picture, but it LOOKS like you're measuring that 3.5" from out near the wing tip. Unless specified otherwise, it's fairly common to measure the CG from the CENTER of the top wing on most bipes. Not saying either way is 'right or wrong", just common, and possibly worth checking. Looks, by rough guess, that the 3.5" back in the center would be close to your 1.7" figure out near the tip.
**EDIT** Just re=read above, and saw you'd said both were straight wings...if that's the case, then clearly suggestion 1 above is moot...however, that top wing LOOKS to be swept back a bit in the pic. Could just be an illusion.
Like you suggested, I measure at the center of the wing root. I just put a sticky note on the wingtip to show the CG in crossection.
Steve
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RE: CG of a Bipe?
For what it's worth...
Looking at it, I'd be willing to risk MY plane on balancing that bird on the top wing spar, and heading off to fly. Might not be ideal, but I'd be comfortable that it'd be flyable.
Obviously, pretty easy for ME to say, since it ain't my airplane.
Looking at it, I'd be willing to risk MY plane on balancing that bird on the top wing spar, and heading off to fly. Might not be ideal, but I'd be comfortable that it'd be flyable.
Obviously, pretty easy for ME to say, since it ain't my airplane.
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RE: CG of a Bipe?
ORIGINAL: h-ray-RCA
....
Upper wing: 5 3/8β chord
Lower wing: 4 ΒΌβ chord
Overlap: 1 Β½β
Effective span: 6 7/8β
25% of 6 7/8= 1.71β should be the actual CG.
Mfg lists cg as being 3 Β½β from LE of upper wing.
....
Upper wing: 5 3/8β chord
Lower wing: 4 ΒΌβ chord
Overlap: 1 Β½β
Effective span: 6 7/8β
25% of 6 7/8= 1.71β should be the actual CG.
Mfg lists cg as being 3 Β½β from LE of upper wing.
The picture tells a 1000 words and those words are saying "THEY ARE NUTS! ! !". You're right to question that location. I don't know where they got that number but it would be a disaster looking for a place close by to happen at takeoff time. I'd go with 1.7 to 1.75 from the upper leading edge and see how it works out for the test flight. That would be a safe starting point for sure.
#13
RE: CG of a Bipe?
ORIGINAL: BMatthews
The overlap should be listed as the lower exposure I think. Otherwise the numbers don't add up.
The picture tells a 1000 words and those words are saying "THEY ARE NUTS! ! !". You're right to question that location. I don't know where they got that number but it would be a disaster looking for a place close by to happen at takeoff time. I'd go with 1.7 to 1.75 from the upper leading edge and see how it works out for the test flight. That would be a safe starting point for sure.
ORIGINAL: h-ray-RCA
....
Upper wing: 5 3/8β chord
Lower wing: 4 ΒΌβ chord
Overlap: 1 Β½β
Effective span: 6 7/8β
25% of 6 7/8= 1.71β should be the actual CG.
Mfg lists cg as being 3 Β½β from LE of upper wing.
....
Upper wing: 5 3/8β chord
Lower wing: 4 ΒΌβ chord
Overlap: 1 Β½β
Effective span: 6 7/8β
25% of 6 7/8= 1.71β should be the actual CG.
Mfg lists cg as being 3 Β½β from LE of upper wing.
The picture tells a 1000 words and those words are saying "THEY ARE NUTS! ! !". You're right to question that location. I don't know where they got that number but it would be a disaster looking for a place close by to happen at takeoff time. I'd go with 1.7 to 1.75 from the upper leading edge and see how it works out for the test flight. That would be a safe starting point for sure.
use that "fat chord" as basis for the cg location
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RE: CG of a Bipe?
ORIGINAL: BMatthews
The picture tells a 1000 words and those words are saying "THEY ARE NUTS! ! !". You're right to question that location. I don't know where they got that number but it would be a disaster looking for a place close by to happen at takeoff time. I'd go with 1.7 to 1.75 from the upper leading edge and see how it works out for the test flight. That would be a safe starting point for sure.
The picture tells a 1000 words and those words are saying "THEY ARE NUTS! ! !". You're right to question that location. I don't know where they got that number but it would be a disaster looking for a place close by to happen at takeoff time. I'd go with 1.7 to 1.75 from the upper leading edge and see how it works out for the test flight. That would be a safe starting point for sure.
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RE: CG of a Bipe?
BTW, slightly off topic, but I never miss a chance to toss it out there:
When determining where the CG of a bipe IS (as in, checking to see where it balances) the "Vanessa CG Machine" is, perhaps, the world's greatest invention. I've used it to find the CG of a .25 size trainer, a 33% Pitts Bipe, and even a 44% Extra 260.
if you're unfamiliar, http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plum...%20Machine.htm has the details. I'll be happy as well to share pictures, what-have-you, if anyone wishes to PM.
We now return you to you regular CG Determination thread.
When determining where the CG of a bipe IS (as in, checking to see where it balances) the "Vanessa CG Machine" is, perhaps, the world's greatest invention. I've used it to find the CG of a .25 size trainer, a 33% Pitts Bipe, and even a 44% Extra 260.
if you're unfamiliar, http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plum...%20Machine.htm has the details. I'll be happy as well to share pictures, what-have-you, if anyone wishes to PM.
We now return you to you regular CG Determination thread.
#16
RE: CG of a Bipe?
ORIGINAL: gboulton
BTW, slightly off topic, but I never miss a chance to toss it out there:
When determining where the CG of a bipe IS (as in, checking to see where it balances) the "Vanessa CG Machine" is, perhaps, the world's greatest invention. I've used it to find the CG of a .25 size trainer, a 33% Pitts Bipe, and even a 44% Extra 260.
if you're unfamiliar, http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plum...%20Machine.htm has the details. I'll be happy as well to share pictures, what-have-you, if anyone wishes to PM.
We now return you to you regular CG Determination thread.
BTW, slightly off topic, but I never miss a chance to toss it out there:
When determining where the CG of a bipe IS (as in, checking to see where it balances) the "Vanessa CG Machine" is, perhaps, the world's greatest invention. I've used it to find the CG of a .25 size trainer, a 33% Pitts Bipe, and even a 44% Extra 260.
if you're unfamiliar, http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plum...%20Machine.htm has the details. I'll be happy as well to share pictures, what-have-you, if anyone wishes to PM.
We now return you to you regular CG Determination thread.
I use the old close one eye n squint - then fly it then change it if it feels wrong to me
seriously- this works with a wee bit of experience .
Deltas fooled me -once -
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RE: CG of a Bipe?
ORIGINAL: dick Hanson
that's one way but yougotta shift things around
that's one way but yougotta shift things around
I use the old close one eye n squint - then fly it then change it if it feels wrong to me
seriously- this works with a wee bit of experience .
Deltas fooled me -once -
seriously- this works with a wee bit of experience .
Deltas fooled me -once -
Which eye?