Who cares about $5 and a number, what's the next step?
12-15-2015, 12:22 AM
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Who cares about $5 and a number, what's the next step?
I don't mind $5 or writing a number on the inside of my plane. The problem is what's next?
The AMA obviously has cast true flyers who have been with them for years to decades in favor of revenue from the modern "1/3.5 scale turbine fighter jet you can fly blindfold your first time out". They will make examples out of these rogue " drone" pilots, and when they have enough violators on file, they will be coming after real RC'rs at our fields. Then comes more speed and altitude regulations complete with tickets and model confiscation when our bigger planes can't realistically fly in their rediculous confines. It's been a good 30 years RC. I'm sure gonna miss you.
The AMA obviously has cast true flyers who have been with them for years to decades in favor of revenue from the modern "1/3.5 scale turbine fighter jet you can fly blindfold your first time out". They will make examples out of these rogue " drone" pilots, and when they have enough violators on file, they will be coming after real RC'rs at our fields. Then comes more speed and altitude regulations complete with tickets and model confiscation when our bigger planes can't realistically fly in their rediculous confines. It's been a good 30 years RC. I'm sure gonna miss you.
12-15-2015, 01:36 AM
#2
Just remember, you can vote out congress members and replace them with new people. They are employed by us and answer to us and therefore can be fired by us. It only takes people's voting to remove a threat and, by removing enough threats, the rest will start listening to us again
12-15-2015, 04:40 PM
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I was very interested to s e that the D.O.T. is actually involved, and has language in the new rules. As someone who has worked within the regulations/compliance industry, I'm impressed by the lack of concern out there. Members are actually making statements about the unnecessary anxiety among the rc communities participants.
Make no mistake, and it is historically accurate, with more than enough evidence or precidence to point toward, that regulations and compliance standards NEVER get reduced. The are designed to feed themselves, and will feed well. Regardless of if you or I like it or not. "We are from the Government, and We are here to help."
They WILL increase the cost.
They WILL increase the standards of compliance.
They WILL increase the penalties.
They WILL increase the qualifying requirements.
Sounds funny now, but we'll probably see even Medical Qualification and certifications in the NEAR future.
Heck....even at this moment, we are paying for redundancy with membership in the AMA, and the FAA registrations. The language of both entities is relevant to each other. It's really too bad, and what's worse is the pile of historical reference and precedence which so clearly indicates exactly what direction this will go into. Write, write, write....call, call, call....but don't sit and say...."oh well, it's only 5 dollars". (OP, I understand your context by the way)
Make no mistake, and it is historically accurate, with more than enough evidence or precidence to point toward, that regulations and compliance standards NEVER get reduced. The are designed to feed themselves, and will feed well. Regardless of if you or I like it or not. "We are from the Government, and We are here to help."
They WILL increase the cost.
They WILL increase the standards of compliance.
They WILL increase the penalties.
They WILL increase the qualifying requirements.
Sounds funny now, but we'll probably see even Medical Qualification and certifications in the NEAR future.
Heck....even at this moment, we are paying for redundancy with membership in the AMA, and the FAA registrations. The language of both entities is relevant to each other. It's really too bad, and what's worse is the pile of historical reference and precedence which so clearly indicates exactly what direction this will go into. Write, write, write....call, call, call....but don't sit and say...."oh well, it's only 5 dollars". (OP, I understand your context by the way)
12-15-2015, 07:58 PM
#5
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I was very interested to s e that the D.O.T. is actually involved, and has language in the new rules. As someone who has worked within the regulations/compliance industry, I'm impressed by the lack of concern out there. Members are actually making statements about the unnecessary anxiety among the rc communities participants.
Make no mistake, and it is historically accurate, with more than enough evidence or precidence to point toward, that regulations and compliance standards NEVER get reduced. The are designed to feed themselves, and will feed well. Regardless of if you or I like it or not. "We are from the Government, and We are here to help."
They WILL increase the cost.
They WILL increase the standards of compliance.
They WILL increase the penalties.
They WILL increase the qualifying requirements.
Sounds funny now, but we'll probably see even Medical Qualification and certifications in the NEAR future.
Heck....even at this moment, we are paying for redundancy with membership in the AMA, and the FAA registrations. The language of both entities is relevant to each other. It's really too bad, and what's worse is the pile of historical reference and precedence which so clearly indicates exactly what direction this will go into. Write, write, write....call, call, call....but don't sit and say...."oh well, it's only 5 dollars". (OP, I understand your context by the way)
Make no mistake, and it is historically accurate, with more than enough evidence or precidence to point toward, that regulations and compliance standards NEVER get reduced. The are designed to feed themselves, and will feed well. Regardless of if you or I like it or not. "We are from the Government, and We are here to help."
They WILL increase the cost.
They WILL increase the standards of compliance.
They WILL increase the penalties.
They WILL increase the qualifying requirements.
Sounds funny now, but we'll probably see even Medical Qualification and certifications in the NEAR future.
Heck....even at this moment, we are paying for redundancy with membership in the AMA, and the FAA registrations. The language of both entities is relevant to each other. It's really too bad, and what's worse is the pile of historical reference and precedence which so clearly indicates exactly what direction this will go into. Write, write, write....call, call, call....but don't sit and say...."oh well, it's only 5 dollars". (OP, I understand your context by the way)
12-15-2015, 08:36 PM
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but....so do the FAA codes and rules weigh more importantly than AMA? If yes, then what's the point of the AMA membership/fees? If the FAA says I'm legal to fly...then who cares what the AMA thinks. If the FAA does NOT overrule the AMA, then what's the point in abiding with the FAA if my AMA membership excludes me from it?
12-15-2015, 08:48 PM
#7
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but....so do the FAA codes and rules weigh more importantly than AMA? If yes, then what's the point of the AMA membership/fees? If the FAA says I'm legal to fly...then who cares what the AMA thinks. If the FAA does NOT overrule the AMA, then what's the point in abiding with the FAA if my AMA membership excludes me from it?
You don't appear to be clear on what the FAA requires, and what the AMA provides. They are two different things. You need one, but not the other in order to legally "fly". Get the reg, then go off on your merry way to fly where and when you see fit. Want to fly at a AMA chartered field, better have your AMA card, if not you won't be flying there. As far as what the AMA provides, check out the site and the membership benefits. If you don't feel there is value in the AMA membership,don't get it. One of the biggest factors is the insurance, so if you have your own, great. The FAA however does not require or provide that.
Many people are not part of AMA and still fly and enjoy the hobby. More power to them if they are happy with, we all can't be land barons!
12-16-2015, 04:59 AM
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It's not about the weight of the codes and the rules.
You don't appear to be clear on what the FAA requires, and what the AMA provides. They are two different things. You need one, but not the other in order to legally "fly". Get the reg, then go off on your merry way to fly where and when you see fit. Want to fly at a AMA chartered field, better have your AMA card, if not you won't be flying there. As far as what the AMA provides, check out the site and the membership benefits. If you don't feel there is value in the AMA membership,don't get it. One of the biggest factors is the insurance, so if you have your own, great. The FAA however does not require or provide that.
Many people are not part of AMA and still fly and enjoy the hobby. More power to them if they are happy with, we all can't be land barons!
You don't appear to be clear on what the FAA requires, and what the AMA provides. They are two different things. You need one, but not the other in order to legally "fly". Get the reg, then go off on your merry way to fly where and when you see fit. Want to fly at a AMA chartered field, better have your AMA card, if not you won't be flying there. As far as what the AMA provides, check out the site and the membership benefits. If you don't feel there is value in the AMA membership,don't get it. One of the biggest factors is the insurance, so if you have your own, great. The FAA however does not require or provide that.
Many people are not part of AMA and still fly and enjoy the hobby. More power to them if they are happy with, we all can't be land barons!
12-16-2015, 07:39 AM
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The problem is we have officially opened our door to government control which means an endless timeline of restrictions and costs. And let's not kid ourselves that the FAA is not the government.
12-16-2015, 10:34 AM
#10
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I don't mind $5 or writing a number on the inside of my plane. The problem is what's next?
The AMA obviously has cast true flyers who have been with them for years to decades in favor of revenue from the modern "1/3.5 scale turbine fighter jet you can fly blindfold your first time out". They will make examples out of these rogue " drone" pilots, and when they have enough violators on file, they will be coming after real RC'rs at our fields. Then comes more speed and altitude regulations complete with tickets and model confiscation when our bigger planes can't realistically fly in their rediculous confines. It's been a good 30 years RC. I'm sure gonna miss you.
The AMA obviously has cast true flyers who have been with them for years to decades in favor of revenue from the modern "1/3.5 scale turbine fighter jet you can fly blindfold your first time out". They will make examples out of these rogue " drone" pilots, and when they have enough violators on file, they will be coming after real RC'rs at our fields. Then comes more speed and altitude regulations complete with tickets and model confiscation when our bigger planes can't realistically fly in their rediculous confines. It's been a good 30 years RC. I'm sure gonna miss you.
12-16-2015, 12:09 PM
#11
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Lets put the blame where it belongs, in the House in 2012.
FAA MODERNIZATION AND REFORM ACT OF2012 is where the language pertaining to Model aircraft is contained. Section 336 of this act specifically exempts model aircraft from regulation unless its being operated in a unsafe manner.
Fast forward to today where you have a Liberal Admin of the DOT and of the FAA. They chose to expand the language of the reform act to include model planes.
The challenge to this "expansion and necessity" can come from a court challenge in a Federal court.
I worked for a Fed Agency who also promulgated regulations. Some were stricken down as a result of the court. It happens.
Unless there is a special act of Congress forbidding the FAA from executing their new plan the court is the answer.
FAA MODERNIZATION AND REFORM ACT OF2012 is where the language pertaining to Model aircraft is contained. Section 336 of this act specifically exempts model aircraft from regulation unless its being operated in a unsafe manner.
Fast forward to today where you have a Liberal Admin of the DOT and of the FAA. They chose to expand the language of the reform act to include model planes.
The challenge to this "expansion and necessity" can come from a court challenge in a Federal court.
I worked for a Fed Agency who also promulgated regulations. Some were stricken down as a result of the court. It happens.
Unless there is a special act of Congress forbidding the FAA from executing their new plan the court is the answer.
12-16-2015, 01:18 PM
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AMA field a lawsuit against the FAA interpretive rule applying to Section 336 in 2014, that case has been stalled but now AMA may be able to motion for it to be heard on the grounds the registration requirement is indeed regulation of modelers belonging to a CBO, and in violation of Section 336. You are correct, Federal Agencies enforce laws through their regulations but they are not supposed to make rulings that circumvent the laws intent. Still David against Goliath but I agree the court is about the only hope left, and no guarantee AMA (and we) will win. CIE also states the FAA is in violation of the regulatory process by skipping required steps and hurrying the process. Hopefully they will file suit also. We can all appeal to our Congressmen but that is similar to peeing into the wind.
12-16-2015, 01:25 PM
#13
You might see others joining the AMA in the suit now. The registration cost won't hurt sales that much, but the penalties in case you forget or its lost in the mail is pretty severe.
12-16-2015, 04:01 PM
#14
Lets put the blame where it belongs, in the House in 2012.
FAA MODERNIZATION AND REFORM ACT OF2012 is where the language pertaining to Model aircraft is contained. Section 336 of this act specifically exempts model aircraft from regulation unless its being operated in a unsafe manner.
Fast forward to today where you have a Liberal Admin of the DOT and of the FAA. They chose to expand the language of the reform act to include model planes.
The challenge to this "expansion and necessity" can come from a court challenge in a Federal court.
I worked for a Fed Agency who also promulgated regulations. Some were stricken down as a result of the court. It happens.
Unless there is a special act of Congress forbidding the FAA from executing their new plan the court is the answer.
FAA MODERNIZATION AND REFORM ACT OF2012 is where the language pertaining to Model aircraft is contained. Section 336 of this act specifically exempts model aircraft from regulation unless its being operated in a unsafe manner.
Fast forward to today where you have a Liberal Admin of the DOT and of the FAA. They chose to expand the language of the reform act to include model planes.
The challenge to this "expansion and necessity" can come from a court challenge in a Federal court.
I worked for a Fed Agency who also promulgated regulations. Some were stricken down as a result of the court. It happens.
Unless there is a special act of Congress forbidding the FAA from executing their new plan the court is the answer.
You guys are liking like spoiled brats.
12-17-2015, 04:18 AM
#16
Exactly! I read Section 336, and the FAA can LEGALLY require that model airplanes be registered, since they are classified as a remotely piloted AIRCRAFT. And if the FAA wants, they can require a license for ALL aircraft. Manned ultralights and hang gliders are the exception, because the FAA exempted them prior to 1981. However, they are STILL considered as vehicles.
12-17-2015, 04:24 AM
#17
Exactly! I read Section 336, and the FAA can LEGALLY require that model airplanes be registered, since they are classified as a remotely piloted AIRCRAFT. And if the FAA wants, they can require a license for ALL aircraft. Manned ultralights and hang gliders are the exception, because the FAA exempted them prior to 1981. However, they are STILL considered as vehicles.
12-17-2015, 06:05 AM
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Spoiled brats? If you read my post you would have seen that I don't care at all about the $5 or the number. It's people like you who can't see the forest for the trees. I could elaborate but won't go there. Ever heard of the lobster that was cooked starting with cool water and slowly heated? We are at about 100 degrees now.
12-17-2015, 06:11 AM
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Here, I will save you the trouble of research which is obviously not your forte'
"I don't mind $5 or writing a number on the inside of my plane."
By the way, I have said my peace and do not intend to reply to you on this.
"I don't mind $5 or writing a number on the inside of my plane."
By the way, I have said my peace and do not intend to reply to you on this.
12-17-2015, 09:40 AM
#21
We register our cars, RV's, guns, even AMA and now the items we use to enjoy it, even ourselves and the endless list, none of which has ever prevented the miss use of it by a minority of nit-wits. I don't see where it's going to solve any of the problems with the drones that started it all, those operators are not going to register their drones unless it's registered at time of purchase and purchaser will be held responsible for any miss use and damage caused by it regardless of the operator.
It's always the law abiding that pick up the tab for the rules made up by a bunch of idiots, FAA, AMA, ARA, CIA, you name it to regulate every thing while history has proven it doesn't stop the things that led to the ruling in the first place. Our flying club doesn't allow drones and choppers are not allowed in the air with fixed wing aircraft, they do not mix. We are all members of the AMA flying at a sanctioned air field insured in the event of an accident and the drone ***** holes don't even know we exist.
When the crap hit's the fan I could care less, I live in a place with a lot of hardly used paved country roads and will fly my planes with my buddies without the expense of the AMA or any freeking regulations.
It's always the law abiding that pick up the tab for the rules made up by a bunch of idiots, FAA, AMA, ARA, CIA, you name it to regulate every thing while history has proven it doesn't stop the things that led to the ruling in the first place. Our flying club doesn't allow drones and choppers are not allowed in the air with fixed wing aircraft, they do not mix. We are all members of the AMA flying at a sanctioned air field insured in the event of an accident and the drone ***** holes don't even know we exist.
When the crap hit's the fan I could care less, I live in a place with a lot of hardly used paved country roads and will fly my planes with my buddies without the expense of the AMA or any freeking regulations.
12-17-2015, 09:56 AM
#22
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Already hold an " ATP " certificate / Airline Transport Pilot Certificate. Highest rating which is issued by the FAA.
Do you really think I need a " MAP - Model Airplane Pilot Certificate " ?
NOT !
Last edited by Granpooba; 12-17-2015 at 09:59 AM.
12-17-2015, 01:25 PM
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We register our cars, RV's, guns, even AMA and now the items we use to enjoy it, even ourselves and the endless list, none of which has ever prevented the miss use of it by a minority of nit-wits. I don't see where it's going to solve any of the problems with the drones that started it all, those operators are not going to register their drones unless it's registered at time of purchase and purchaser will be held responsible for any miss use and damage caused by it regardless of the operator.
It's always the law abiding that pick up the tab for the rules made up by a bunch of idiots, FAA, AMA, ARA, CIA, you name it to regulate every thing while history has proven it doesn't stop the things that led to the ruling in the first place. Our flying club doesn't allow drones and choppers are not allowed in the air with fixed wing aircraft, they do not mix. We are all members of the AMA flying at a sanctioned air field insured in the event of an accident and the drone ***** holes don't even know we exist.
When the crap hit's the fan I could care less, I live in a place with a lot of hardly used paved country roads and will fly my planes with my buddies without the expense of the AMA or any freeking regulations.
It's always the law abiding that pick up the tab for the rules made up by a bunch of idiots, FAA, AMA, ARA, CIA, you name it to regulate every thing while history has proven it doesn't stop the things that led to the ruling in the first place. Our flying club doesn't allow drones and choppers are not allowed in the air with fixed wing aircraft, they do not mix. We are all members of the AMA flying at a sanctioned air field insured in the event of an accident and the drone ***** holes don't even know we exist.
When the crap hit's the fan I could care less, I live in a place with a lot of hardly used paved country roads and will fly my planes with my buddies without the expense of the AMA or any freeking regulations.
12-17-2015, 01:55 PM
#24
It's my understanding that ratified treaties carry force of law at federal level. If USA signed and ratified a treaty that defines them as aircraft (which they did), and Congress gave authority to FAA/DOT to regulate aircraft (which they did), then stick a fork in it...it's done.
12-17-2015, 01:57 PM
#25
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Exactly! I read Section 336, and the FAA can LEGALLY require that model airplanes be registered, since they are classified as a remotely piloted AIRCRAFT. And if the FAA wants, they can require a license for ALL aircraft. Manned ultralights and hang gliders are the exception, because the FAA exempted them prior to 1981. However, they are STILL considered as vehicles.
What part of these words for exceptions do you not understand?
"SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.(a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of lawrelating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into FederalAviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle,the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration maynot promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft,or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreationaluse;(2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-basedset of safety guidelines and within the programmingof a nationwide community-based organization;(3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unlessotherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection,flight test, and operational safety program administeredby a community-based organization; Etc.