Let's join together and refuse the FAA registration
01-21-2016, 04:42 AM
#776
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Indianapolis,
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The consent of the governed?!
I have but one thing to say, stealing the line from John Mellencamp:
"You gotta stand right up for somethin', or you'll fall for anything!"
This gyrene (there are no honorably discharged "ex-Marines" only Marines no longer on active duty)
says
SEMPER FI FOLKs
Americans are NOT a cowardly people.
I hope we never have to prove the point again.
I have but one thing to say, stealing the line from John Mellencamp:
"You gotta stand right up for somethin', or you'll fall for anything!"
This gyrene (there are no honorably discharged "ex-Marines" only Marines no longer on active duty)
says
SEMPER FI FOLKs
Americans are NOT a cowardly people.
I hope we never have to prove the point again.
01-21-2016, 04:47 AM
#777
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
You may not know but, homeowners or renter's insurance for a large majority of carriers, will not cover you for accidents involving RC models.
Insurance companies deem model airplanes in the same category as full scale planes, guess they have taken the lead from the FAA.
So the information we have heard repeated for years and years, by the AMA and people who parrot what they are told with out investigating or
thinking just ain't so. So the AMA is the only policy to cover you.
Since the AMA has half-heartedly opposed the FAA yes that's right the AMA has been giving double talk, and streamlining the procedure.
They have never acted in a leadership role, they are equivocators and have played us for fools.
Like your statement
"
"this is a hobby and I am not betting my home and finances by flying without coverage." guess what ,if your field FAILS to pass AMA inspection
or the coverage is insufficient to mitigate damages, then you have and are betting you home and finances every time you fly you just were
asleep and didn't know, Check it out see if I am wrong.
We got a real bunch of fools in this hobby, they sound like they might have some brains but they are just arrogant.
How about when someone mentions legal action and the statement is made:
"YOU KNOW HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO SUE A GOVERNMENTAL AGENCY"
No, tell me genius ,how much does it cost to sue a governmental agency?
Do you know,,...$10,000,,50,000,,150,000 $1Million
no figures just talk that's what you hear.
Have you looked at the lawsuit brought by AMA with the firm of Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP. on 8/22/14
Well here it is How much do you think the research and preparation really cost?
If the AMA was charged more than $10,000 for the brief and court time we got ripped off.
Here it is the site:
https://www.aopa.org/-/media/Files/A...MApetition.pdf
case 14-1158 United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia
I was told another action more recently was started by the AMA.
Where is it? Can't find the District Court Number for any case in 2015 or 2016 ?
6 pages that's it
It looks like the pressure to register is not coming the FAA but more immediately, from our own clubs who, since there is no direction from the AMA have decided to fend for themselves and require members to register to avoid prooooooblllleeemmms.
Well thank the AMA at least they got the registration process
STREAMLINED
YEAH !!!!!
Insurance companies deem model airplanes in the same category as full scale planes, guess they have taken the lead from the FAA.
So the information we have heard repeated for years and years, by the AMA and people who parrot what they are told with out investigating or
thinking just ain't so. So the AMA is the only policy to cover you.
Since the AMA has half-heartedly opposed the FAA yes that's right the AMA has been giving double talk, and streamlining the procedure.
They have never acted in a leadership role, they are equivocators and have played us for fools.
Like your statement
"
"this is a hobby and I am not betting my home and finances by flying without coverage." guess what ,if your field FAILS to pass AMA inspection
or the coverage is insufficient to mitigate damages, then you have and are betting you home and finances every time you fly you just were
asleep and didn't know, Check it out see if I am wrong.
We got a real bunch of fools in this hobby, they sound like they might have some brains but they are just arrogant.
How about when someone mentions legal action and the statement is made:
"YOU KNOW HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO SUE A GOVERNMENTAL AGENCY"
No, tell me genius ,how much does it cost to sue a governmental agency?
Do you know,,...$10,000,,50,000,,150,000 $1Million
no figures just talk that's what you hear.
Have you looked at the lawsuit brought by AMA with the firm of Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP. on 8/22/14
Well here it is How much do you think the research and preparation really cost?
If the AMA was charged more than $10,000 for the brief and court time we got ripped off.
Here it is the site:
https://www.aopa.org/-/media/Files/A...MApetition.pdf
case 14-1158 United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia
I was told another action more recently was started by the AMA.
Where is it? Can't find the District Court Number for any case in 2015 or 2016 ?
6 pages that's it
It looks like the pressure to register is not coming the FAA but more immediately, from our own clubs who, since there is no direction from the AMA have decided to fend for themselves and require members to register to avoid prooooooblllleeemmms.
Well thank the AMA at least they got the registration process
STREAMLINED
YEAH !!!!!
01-21-2016, 04:49 AM
#778
+1. Should be easy, I'd assume he has his own policy he can start with so it's not like he has to go far to find one.
01-21-2016, 04:52 AM
#779
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
If you have h/o coverage, take a look at your policy and you'll see neither of the two things you note are in there.
01-21-2016, 06:45 AM
#784
That is also incorrect, where are you coming up with this information? With extremely rare exception, the policies are ISO based, and have exact and similar language. Breaking a law is not solely a reason for a denial of coverage, nor does an act have to have occurred on your property to be covered.
If you have h/o coverage, take a look at your policy and you'll see neither of the two things you note are in there.
If you have h/o coverage, take a look at your policy and you'll see neither of the two things you note are in there.
01-21-2016, 06:57 AM
#785
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
What are you talking about...what was "removed" a decade ago. And now you're talking about a completely seperate issue with a diamond ring that has nothing to do with the other issue. Most jewelry should be scheduled via an endorsement, then it would be covered, but that's another discussion. Coverage's attach to place and person.
Again, show me the policy language that comports with what you are saying, otherwise it looks like you're just guessing.
Again, show me the policy language that comports with what you are saying, otherwise it looks like you're just guessing.
01-21-2016, 07:14 AM
#786
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Prescott, AZ
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I did the research and asked the underwriter (not the agent). The written response I got (two years ago) was that coverage would not be provided if the "activity" violated any laws (unlawful) or was conducted on someone else's property without the property owners permission. Flying a model aircraft without registration is currently a violation of federal law...an unlawful activity. I suggest that everyone out there that considers themselves an expert on homeowners insurance (or the legitimacy of the FAA's ruling), do their own research and get a written statement from the underwriter as I did. All the "expert" opinions don't matter. If you have not determined it for a fact, as I did, you are throwing the dice and ultimately will have to hire an attorney to force your underwriter to pay if you are wrong or sue the FAA if you think they don't have the authority. Talk in this thread doesn't matter (including what I have shared). Determine for yourself...or don't. It is all about risk aversion and consequences if you are wrong. Over and out!
01-21-2016, 07:25 AM
#789
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: El Paso,
TX
Posts: 5,277
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01-21-2016, 07:35 AM
#790
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
I did the research and asked the underwriter (not the agent). The written response I got (two years ago) was that coverage would not be provided if the "activity" violated any laws (unlawful) or was conducted on someone else's property without the property owners permission. Flying a model aircraft without registration is currently a violation of federal law...an unlawful activity. I suggest that everyone out there that considers themselves an expert on homeowners insurance (or the legitimacy of the FAA's ruling), do their own research and get a written statement from the underwriter as I did. All the "expert" opinions don't matter. If you have not determined it for a fact, as I did, you are throwing the dice and ultimately will have to hire an attorney to force your underwriter to pay if you are wrong or sue the FAA if you think they don't have the authority. Talk in this thread doesn't matter (including what I have shared). Determine for yourself...or don't. It is all about risk aversion and consequences if you are wrong. Over and out!
Many "illegal" acts are very much covered under the terms of a h/o or auto policy. If they weren't there would be far less reason to carry the coverage.
01-21-2016, 07:51 AM
#791
I did the research and asked the underwriter (not the agent). The written response I got (two years ago) was that coverage would not be provided if the "activity" violated any laws (unlawful) or was conducted on someone else's property without the property owners permission. Flying a model aircraft without registration is currently a violation of federal law...an unlawful activity. I suggest that everyone out there that considers themselves an expert on homeowners insurance (or the legitimacy of the FAA's ruling), do their own research and get a written statement from the underwriter as I did. All the "expert" opinions don't matter. If you have not determined it for a fact, as I did, you are throwing the dice and ultimately will have to hire an attorney to force your underwriter to pay if you are wrong or sue the FAA if you think they don't have the authority. Talk in this thread doesn't matter (including what I have shared). Determine for yourself...or don't. It is all about risk aversion and consequences if you are wrong. Over and out!
Last edited by Chris P. Bacon; 01-21-2016 at 08:41 AM.
01-21-2016, 08:33 AM
#792
Originally Posted by STKNRUD 
I did the research and asked the underwriter (not the agent). The written response I got (two years ago) was that coverage would not be provided if the "activity" violated any laws (unlawful) or was conducted on someone else's property without the property owners permission. Flying a model aircraft without registration is currently a violation of federal law...an unlawful activity. I suggest that everyone out there that considers themselves an expert on homeowners insurance (or the legitimacy of the FAA's ruling), do their own research and get a written statement from the underwriter as I did. All the "expert" opinions don't matter. If you have not determined it for a fact, as I did, you are throwing the dice and ultimately will have to hire an attorney to force your underwriter to pay if you are wrong or sue the FAA if you think they don't have the authority. Talk in this thread doesn't matter (including what I have shared). Determine for yourself...or don't. It is all about risk aversion and consequences if you are wrong. Over and out!
Don't really know what My Home owners actually dose cover. I know a number of years ago I spoke to my agent and Suposedly I was covered flying Model air planes. I definitely will/am looking in to exactly for what I am covered for. I just talked to my agent and he seemed mor interested in the VALUE of my collection and the size of the toys. I explicitly reiterated I would like more info on the Liability side. It can't hurt to be well informed.
01-21-2016, 08:44 AM
#793
Don't really know what My Home owners actually dose cover. I know a number of years ago I spoke to my agent and Suposedly I was covered flying Model air planes. I definitely will/am looking in to exactly for what I am covered for. I just talked to my agent and he seemed mor interested in the VALUE of my collection and the size of the toys. I explicitly reiterated I would like more info on the Liability side. It can't hurt to be well informed.
01-21-2016, 08:47 AM
#794
01-21-2016, 08:49 AM
#795
Flying a model aircraft without registration is currently a violation of federal law...
01-21-2016, 08:49 AM
#796
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Originally Posted by STKNRUD I did the research and asked the underwriter (not the agent). The written response I got (two years ago) was that coverage would not be provided if the "activity" violated any laws (unlawful) or was conducted on someone else's property without the property owners permission. Flying a model aircraft without registration is currently a violation of federal law...an unlawful activity. I suggest that everyone out there that considers themselves an expert on homeowners insurance (or the legitimacy of the FAA's ruling), do their own research and get a written statement from the underwriter as I did. All the "expert" opinions don't matter. If you have not determined it for a fact, as I did, you are throwing the dice and ultimately will have to hire an attorney to force your underwriter to pay if you are wrong or sue the FAA if you think they don't have the authority. Talk in this thread doesn't matter (including what I have shared). Determine for yourself...or don't. It is all about risk aversion and consequences if you are wrong. Over and out!
I think your statement Mr Bacon is incorrect. To a point.. Take automobile insurance they even cover your liability nomate what violation U are charged with after an accident thatwas clearly your fault. i.e. DUI/DWI run a red light w/ an accident.
Don't really know what My Home owners actually dose cover. I know a number of years ago I spoke to my agent and Suposedly I was covered flying Model air planes. I definitely will/am looking in to exactly for what I am covered for. I just talked to my agent and he seemed mor interested in the VALUE of my collection and the size of the toys. I explicitly reiterated I would like more info on the Liability side. It can't hurt to be well informed.
01-21-2016, 08:59 AM
#797
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Damage control and remediation costs alone well into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, let alone the damage to property or person. It's rare, but these similar kinds of things happen everyday. And people and companies don't just go away when your coverage limits are reached.
01-21-2016, 09:07 AM
#798
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
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We understand there are AMA members who do not have a computer or do not want to submit a credit card during the application process. We discussed with the FAA the use of a paper application, which currently is only available at local FAA Flight Standards Ditrict Offices (FSDO). To make these paper applications easier to obtain, AMA is working to acquire these documents, which we can send to members who request them. As for members who are willing to register online, but cannot or do not want to submit credit card information, the FAA has agreed to accept gift credit cards such as Visa or Mastercard.
For those clubs that own a model aircraft as an organization and not as an individual, we requested clarification as to how to register the model. We concluded that those models should be registered under the registration of one of the club leaders. To protect that club leader who voluntarily placed his number in or on the club aircraft, the member should have a written document from the club indicating he or she should not be held responsible and is simply providing a registration number on behalf of the club.
Finally, there is confusion around whether members register themselves or their aircraft. Members register themselves and place their number in or on their aircraft.
At the end of our meeting with the FAA, we invited FAA representatives to join the AMA leadership at a nearby flying site to showcase firsthand AMA’s safety protocols, demonstrate club camaraderie and mentoring, and provide the opportunity for the FAA to speak with AMA members in-person.
For those clubs that own a model aircraft as an organization and not as an individual, we requested clarification as to how to register the model. We concluded that those models should be registered under the registration of one of the club leaders. To protect that club leader who voluntarily placed his number in or on the club aircraft, the member should have a written document from the club indicating he or she should not be held responsible and is simply providing a registration number on behalf of the club.
Finally, there is confusion around whether members register themselves or their aircraft. Members register themselves and place their number in or on their aircraft.
At the end of our meeting with the FAA, we invited FAA representatives to join the AMA leadership at a nearby flying site to showcase firsthand AMA’s safety protocols, demonstrate club camaraderie and mentoring, and provide the opportunity for the FAA to speak with AMA members in-person.
01-21-2016, 09:28 AM
#799
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: TITUSVILLE FLORIDA NY
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That's is right no homeowners policy will cover for accidents at the flying field (or too few to be a statistic)
yet, you will hear the highly uninformed repeating it like it is a friggin mantra
Homeowners is primary !, Homeowner is primary !
Hari Krishna , Krishna, Krishan,,Hari, Hari.
These guys need to feel important and all they do is spread misinformation,
Hopefully more people will get wise and look into alternatives to the AMA insurance.
Commercial drone insurance for a business is $1500/year I would hazard a guess that non-commercial
would be substantially cheaper.
I think we are coming to a parting of the ways with the AMA
yet, you will hear the highly uninformed repeating it like it is a friggin mantra
Homeowners is primary !, Homeowner is primary !
Hari Krishna , Krishna, Krishan,,Hari, Hari.
These guys need to feel important and all they do is spread misinformation,
Hopefully more people will get wise and look into alternatives to the AMA insurance.
Commercial drone insurance for a business is $1500/year I would hazard a guess that non-commercial
would be substantially cheaper.
I think we are coming to a parting of the ways with the AMA
01-21-2016, 09:54 AM
#800
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
That's is right no homeowners policy will cover for accidents at the flying field (or too few to be a statistic)
yet, you will hear the highly uninformed repeating it like it is a friggin mantra
Homeowners is primary !, Homeowner is primary !
Hari Krishna , Krishna, Krishan,,Hari, Hari.
These guys need to feel important and all they do is spread misinformation,
Hopefully more people will get wise and look into alternatives to the AMA insurance.
Commercial drone insurance for a business is $1500/year I would hazard a guess that non-commercial
would be substantially cheaper.
I think we are coming to a parting of the ways with the AMA
yet, you will hear the highly uninformed repeating it like it is a friggin mantra
Homeowners is primary !, Homeowner is primary !
Hari Krishna , Krishna, Krishan,,Hari, Hari.
These guys need to feel important and all they do is spread misinformation,
Hopefully more people will get wise and look into alternatives to the AMA insurance.
Commercial drone insurance for a business is $1500/year I would hazard a guess that non-commercial
would be substantially cheaper.
I think we are coming to a parting of the ways with the AMA