Interesting admission on AMA website
#26
Thread Starter
I'm in agreement that had AMA not made MRs part of "us" (in what I believe to be an attempt to stem the tide of aging membership), they gave up the ability to draw a bright line distinction between AMA members and non members - with AMA members being arguably more likely to fly safely. Optics matter I think, and MRs are so visibly different and instantly recognizable, it would have been nice to say "if it looks like this, it's not our members." But now, the public, the media, regulators, and legislators are lumping us all together - MRs, helis, and fixed wing.
As for the bill that passed the Senate. Read subsection "B" of the Special Rules on Model Aircraft. The part titled "updates." It allows the FAA to convene a working group to update the operational definition/limits in subsection "A". Now, remember the last time the FAA got stakeholders together - the registration - how's that worked out? Why would we think AMA would have any more power against Google, AOPA, Airline Pilots, City Managers groups, etc. on operational limits than they had on registration?
I think AMA got outfoxed again. Bill looks like Senators are throwing AMA a bone, but in the end, it turns out to be quite the opposite.
As for the bill that passed the Senate. Read subsection "B" of the Special Rules on Model Aircraft. The part titled "updates." It allows the FAA to convene a working group to update the operational definition/limits in subsection "A". Now, remember the last time the FAA got stakeholders together - the registration - how's that worked out? Why would we think AMA would have any more power against Google, AOPA, Airline Pilots, City Managers groups, etc. on operational limits than they had on registration?
I think AMA got outfoxed again. Bill looks like Senators are throwing AMA a bone, but in the end, it turns out to be quite the opposite.
#27
Thread Starter
For those that need the link, here's a link to what passed the Senate:
FYI, first part reads like a tax bill (it is), the FAA stuff is attached.
https://www.congress.gov/amendment/1...ment/3679/text
FYI, first part reads like a tax bill (it is), the FAA stuff is attached.
https://www.congress.gov/amendment/1...ment/3679/text
#28
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I'm in agreement that had AMA not made MRs part of "us" (in what I believe to be an attempt to stem the tide of aging membership), they gave up the ability to draw a bright line distinction between AMA members and non members - with AMA members being arguably more likely to fly safely. Optics matter I think, and MRs are so visibly different and instantly recognizable, it would have been nice to say "if it looks like this, it's not our members." But now, the public, the media, regulators, and legislators are lumping us all together - MRs, helis, and fixed wing.
As for the bill that passed the Senate. Read subsection "B" of the Special Rules on Model Aircraft. The part titled "updates." It allows the FAA to convene a working group to update the operational definition/limits in subsection "A". Now, remember the last time the FAA got stakeholders together - the registration - how's that worked out? Why would we think AMA would have any more power against Google, AOPA, Airline Pilots, City Managers groups, etc. on operational limits than they had on registration?
I think AMA got outfoxed again. Bill looks like Senators are throwing AMA a bone, but in the end, it turns out to be quite the opposite.
As for the bill that passed the Senate. Read subsection "B" of the Special Rules on Model Aircraft. The part titled "updates." It allows the FAA to convene a working group to update the operational definition/limits in subsection "A". Now, remember the last time the FAA got stakeholders together - the registration - how's that worked out? Why would we think AMA would have any more power against Google, AOPA, Airline Pilots, City Managers groups, etc. on operational limits than they had on registration?
I think AMA got outfoxed again. Bill looks like Senators are throwing AMA a bone, but in the end, it turns out to be quite the opposite.
#29
#30
I am certainly in agreement with the position that the AMA screwed up bad accepting and promoting FPV and have said so many times over many years. Being realistic, however, since it was not squashed when it first came out it is now a super major power in our community. Unfortunately it will be the primary driver for increased AMA enrollment. Before turning on the flamethrower you should realize that MRs and FPV are opening up a whole new area of racing and that will attract younger fliers. As I said in another thread even ESPN is getting into the racing end of FPV now. Racing requires organization and locations and that means more clubs even if dedicated to just racing. It also means insurance. Sadly it is just what AMA needs to grow.
Take a look back at rcunivers to see how things have changed. It started primarily as forum for pilots with a small amount of others. Now you can go one day without new, popular threads on tanks. And a large number of threads on cars and trucks. We, the model airplane pilots, are being left in the dirt.
Take a look back at rcunivers to see how things have changed. It started primarily as forum for pilots with a small amount of others. Now you can go one day without new, popular threads on tanks. And a large number of threads on cars and trucks. We, the model airplane pilots, are being left in the dirt.
#31
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The weather has been nice enough to fly here for the past couple weeks and I have yet to see a MR.
In fact, I saw no MRs last year either.
Or the year before that.
When Hula Hoops and Frisbees were a huge fad, you couldn't go anywhere without seeing some.
Where IS this huge, untapped market that the AMA couldn't resist gambling our future for...?
In fact, I saw no MRs last year either.
Or the year before that.
When Hula Hoops and Frisbees were a huge fad, you couldn't go anywhere without seeing some.
Where IS this huge, untapped market that the AMA couldn't resist gambling our future for...?
#32
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For those that need the link, here's a link to what passed the Senate:
FYI, first part reads like a tax bill (it is), the FAA stuff is attached.
https://www.congress.gov/amendment/1...ment/3679/text
FYI, first part reads like a tax bill (it is), the FAA stuff is attached.
https://www.congress.gov/amendment/1...ment/3679/text
#33
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The weather has been nice enough to fly here for the past couple weeks and I have yet to see a MR.
In fact, I saw no MRs last year either.
Or the year before that.
When Hula Hoops and Frisbees were a huge fad, you couldn't go anywhere without seeing some.
Where IS this huge, untapped market that the AMA couldn't resist gambling our future for...?
In fact, I saw no MRs last year either.
Or the year before that.
When Hula Hoops and Frisbees were a huge fad, you couldn't go anywhere without seeing some.
Where IS this huge, untapped market that the AMA couldn't resist gambling our future for...?
PROBLEM IS: Whether it fades or grows, the FAA, Congress, and the general public NOW have a regulatory "bucket" to toss us into. In my estimation, the Feces have Struck the Rotary Air moving device with GREAT vigor.... and WORSE - with the FULL EMBRACE and support/encouragement of the very organization that was supposedly "our" voice In the wilderness.
THEY ARE NOTHING MORE THAN TRAITORS TO THEIR OWN ROOTS!!!!
#35
Mike
#36
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Time will tell but so far I've seen no big jump in AMA membership due to MR's or the masses attending these multi rotor events. I keep hearing about sponsors and cash prizes but no spectator numbers to be found. Unless they can grab spectators it will fail. The whole ESPN deal will be broadcast on the web with a abridged version shown on ESPN 3 not main stream yet by any means. My local experience is the 6 or 8 guys locally who race go from place to place till their run off by the city or land owner. They want nothing to do with the local clubs ( a open invitation was given to them by our club) or the AMA.
Mike
Mike
You don't see anything positive about FPV because you aren't looking, be in events, event coverage here and elsewhere, or 250,000 in prize money, you see it all through one prism. Doesn't matter, even many of the "traditional modelers" can see as plain as day it's on the rise. Unless you have access to membership numbers, not sure where you are getting any data on increase or decreases in membership, or the reason for either of those. Even downplaying a major broadcaster like ESPN getting involved. What has your club, or any others in the area tried to do for those 6 or 8 local guys flying place to place. Anyone show them what it's like to fly at a field...or do they get the same response we seem to hear from people who visit clubs with arfs and foamies. Could that be any part of the reason we might not see an explosion of membership increases?
#37
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On AMA website and as we'll see in the May issue of MA, Dave Scott may have inadvertently revealed something that starts to explain a lot of the AMA actions. And I quote from the first sentence after the last photo in the post:
".. and help stem the 15-year trend of declining club membership .."
Now I'm no rocket scientist, but declining club membership in the face of either fixed or increasing costs to maintain club flying sites, either means big hikes in club dues or more clubs folding. Think about that in the context of the 400 clubs that didn't renew memberships. Think about that in terms of clubs that are listed on AMA website but don't respond to emails etc.
This cannot be good news
http://modelaviation.com/fostering-active-clubs
".. and help stem the 15-year trend of declining club membership .."
Now I'm no rocket scientist, but declining club membership in the face of either fixed or increasing costs to maintain club flying sites, either means big hikes in club dues or more clubs folding. Think about that in the context of the 400 clubs that didn't renew memberships. Think about that in terms of clubs that are listed on AMA website but don't respond to emails etc.
This cannot be good news
http://modelaviation.com/fostering-active-clubs
The article is pretty positive overall, and a lengthy one at that. I hope people take the time to read it. It's over 3720 words long, but you but you took one 10 word sentence out of context.
#38
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For those that need the link, here's a link to what passed the Senate:
FYI, first part reads like a tax bill (it is), the FAA stuff is attached.
https://www.congress.gov/amendment/1...ment/3679/text
FYI, first part reads like a tax bill (it is), the FAA stuff is attached.
https://www.congress.gov/amendment/1...ment/3679/text
SEC. 2124. SMALL UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SAFETY STANDARDS.
``(h) Exclusions.--This section shall not apply to unmanned aircraft systems that are not capable of navigating beyond the visual line of sight of the operator through advanced flight systems and technology, unless the Administrator determines that is necessary to ensure safety of the airspace.''
#39
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Couldn't agree with you more. Autonomous drones and FPV should have been left alone to either be governed directly by the FAA or from a separate organization. There very operation exceeds by far, the definition of a traditional model aircraft/helicopter. I did write my senator trying to explain the differences and why our hobby should be left alone. The AMA unfortunately posted last night that some as they put it "detrimental" aspects of the Senate language remain. I'm not done trying to make a difference however because I feel our hobby is too valuable to simply surrender. Let's hope in the end common sense will prevail.
#41
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Here in Tulsa we've had two really great RC shops fold up, Wings and Things and Ultimate RC so that left us with the franchise retailer Hobby Town and unless you are in the market for the latest plastic fantastic with 3 way auto pilot and built in applause button, or Quad Flawper you are out of luck. It's a complete crap shoot when you go there to find even the most basic supplies. We still have well attended clubs and flying sites but if you like to build engine powered sportplanes getting the materials, kits, fuel etc..., isn't as convenient as it used to be. I still build and fly planes built from kits, or plans or my imagination but if all that's available are the kind of prebuilt items I think you have people participating in a transient fashion and not staying with the hobby as in years past. Also the economy surely plays a factor as well when you had all the foreclosures and people lost their building spaces.
#42
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Moot point, as CNN just posted update about Senate Bill 2658: Federal Aviation Administration Reauthorization Act of 2016 PASSING the Senate today by a nearly unanimous vote, including all the drone detritus contained therein. It further states the "bill now returns to the House for reconciliation of amendments".
Unless someone KNOWS SPECIFICALLY THAT AMA SUGGESTIONS FOR CHANGES WERE INCORPORATED, they (Senate) have now passed into LAW what amounts to the first FEDERAL LAW ever mandated to the FAA to control model aviation (under the guise of "managing the burgeoning drone industry" and "ensuring safety in our airspace".
Yee ha. Time to party down....
AND a great b\g bear hug to all those AMA leaders (elected or appointed) who really STOOD UP to make the g-d drone menace "NOT" model aircraft. Yessiree, Bob, they did a DANDY job of helping the majority of AMA members (MODEL AIRCRAFT OPERATORS) be kept separately defined and regulated NOT as drones. Way to go, good ol' boys.
Unless someone KNOWS SPECIFICALLY THAT AMA SUGGESTIONS FOR CHANGES WERE INCORPORATED, they (Senate) have now passed into LAW what amounts to the first FEDERAL LAW ever mandated to the FAA to control model aviation (under the guise of "managing the burgeoning drone industry" and "ensuring safety in our airspace".
Yee ha. Time to party down....
AND a great b\g bear hug to all those AMA leaders (elected or appointed) who really STOOD UP to make the g-d drone menace "NOT" model aircraft. Yessiree, Bob, they did a DANDY job of helping the majority of AMA members (MODEL AIRCRAFT OPERATORS) be kept separately defined and regulated NOT as drones. Way to go, good ol' boys.
Last edited by MTIPilot; 04-20-2016 at 04:43 AM.
#43
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I believe if this bill passes that there the AMA will not exist as it does now in two to three years if at all as there will be no more reason for it to exist if no one can fly
#45
#46
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These discussions usually devolve into a political pie toss, so I have decided to toss out a doozy... 21st century America is a different place than is was just a few decades ago (when I was but a wee lad). No longer do we have representatives who respect, uphold, and fight for INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.. now it's all about COLLECTIVE RIGHTS. Case in point: When a drone is spotted at 4000 feet, rather than find the perpetrator and throw the book at him, our representatives propose ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL legislation they claim is designed to "protect all of us." But the fact is, it DOES NOT protect all of us, if some of us enjoy the freedom of flying our RC model aircraft at the same fields and in the same ways we have been doing safely for DECADES. Dittos gun control. But a single incident now drives the frightened masses clamoring for Big Brother to "protect us" and thus, a large net is thrown over everyone and everything that even hints of 'danger' and we end up with fewer individual liberties. Call it philosophical; call it a sign of the times; call it what you will, but in the end, it ALWAYS comes to the same thing - as government grows, our liberties shrink. Hell, our Founders warned of this 200+ years ago, but with the Fed now the largest 'too-big-to-fail' enterprise in the U.S. and $20T in debt, do you think we've learned anything? Clearly, no. We are moving towards a world where everything will be "virtual" such that people can experience things without actually doing anything. There are now so many laws on the books that it is NOT an exaggeration to say that in the course of a normal day, you've probably broken several of them. It's all about control, which always involves taxes and assessments so that those in control can remain in control AND increase in size and scope. Ostensibly we establish government to protect me from you, and you from me, but it's always perverted by the quest for power and control under the illusion of "safety for the masses." I could list a dozen more examples... I'll never give up or give in, but it seems (like Rome) every great civilization legislates itself out of existence...
#47
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......Ostensibly we establish government to protect me from you, and you from me, but it's always perverted by the quest for power and control under the illusion of "safety for the masses." I could list a dozen more examples... I'll never give up or give in, but it seems (like Rome) every great civilization legislates itself out of existence...
#50
Wonder where the AMA defenders are now? Clubs are now being forced into educating the public that they are not flying drones and having to fight to keep their flying sites. I guess we will all have to move to Muncie to fly when our clubs get closed down and we get kicked off our flying sites.