FAA: CBO Membership NOT required to comply with 336
#451
Banned
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BTW, If by "some" you mean about 3 people or 4, then yes, I acknowledge that that "some" people have spoken up (sorry, questioned) it. Almost an equal amount were concerned with the cost of yellow sticky pads and BIC pens at Muncie versus money being handed out to clubs at will! Not exactly a consensus issue there is it?
It reminds me of the HUGE outrage over the "loss" of the AMA vision and direction, and the allegations of the AMA losing sight of it's core members ( which has resulted in a "take back the hobby" cries). All that turmoil and angst and what, a couple hundred people at best "signed" on to the great letter to the AMA authored by those 14 folks representing "traditional" modeling. That might actually be generous number, since the effort sort of evaporated in the ether, never to be heard from again. Someone started a "petition" which if I remember correctly Mike used to link to as part of his sig line, well that one went goodbye as well, both from his sig line, and significance. Perhaps 900 responses for both efforts...so ya by all means, let's talk about some numbers.
Wait...900...that's about the same amount of new MR pilots the AMA got from the Best Buy program. Coincidence...I think not!
#452
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Section 4. Safety Coordinator
To promote increased safety awareness on the part of all members, improve the public perception of modeling as a safe and desirable sport, and provide a means by which important safety information can be shared between clubs, AMA chartered clubs will be required to establish the position of Safety Coordinator. This person will act as a communications liaison between the club and AMA Headquarters to ensure timely distribution of safety related material. The Club Safety Coordinator must have E-mail access.
Recommended Duties:
1) Provide a communications link between AMA and clubs in matters related to safety.
2) Act as a safety advisor and resource manager for the club and its members.
3) Assist AMA in the establishment of a national safety program to reduce accidents/incidents.
4) Develop, promote, and encourage a climate of safety awareness within AMA clubs.
Safety Coordinator activities may include the following:
To promote increased safety awareness on the part of all members, improve the public perception of modeling as a safe and desirable sport, and provide a means by which important safety information can be shared between clubs, AMA chartered clubs will be required to establish the position of Safety Coordinator. This person will act as a communications liaison between the club and AMA Headquarters to ensure timely distribution of safety related material. The Club Safety Coordinator must have E-mail access.
Recommended Duties:
1) Provide a communications link between AMA and clubs in matters related to safety.
2) Act as a safety advisor and resource manager for the club and its members.
3) Assist AMA in the establishment of a national safety program to reduce accidents/incidents.
4) Develop, promote, and encourage a climate of safety awareness within AMA clubs.
Safety Coordinator activities may include the following:
- Inspect operational areas for proper signage and safety equipment as applicable.
- Distribute AMA Accident/Incident Report Forms and ensure they are properly used.
- Conduct safety awareness training and related programs during club meetings.
- Conduct, at least annually, a safety audit of club facilities, equipment, and grounds to ensure everything is in good working order and safe for normal use by members and the public.
- Act as a liaison with the local EMS/Fire Department.
- Establish a club emergency action plan to handle serious accidents/incidents.
- Coordinate appropriate first-aid training for members using qualified instructors.
- Develop an appropriate communications plan to assist club officers and members.
- Review emergency procedures (fire and rescue) with club members on an annual basis.
#453
Banned
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As far as I'm aware, any safety violations would be the call of our clubs safety coordinator, unless local law enforcement was called to the scene of an accident. Who else am I overlooking that would be in a position to make that call? Here's the AMA's recommended duties for club safety coordinator ,as provided in the AMA insider.
#455
Thread Starter
#456
Banned
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I've heard corrupt, inept, out of touch with reality, and more recently intimidators and liars. And that's not even going over how much Muncie spends on pens, pencils, and sticky pads!
#457
As far as I'm aware, any safety violations would be the call of our clubs safety coordinator, unless local law enforcement was called to the scene of an accident. Who else am I overlooking that would be in a position to make that call? Here's the AMA's recommended duties for club safety coordinator ,as provided in the AMA insider.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 09-01-2016 at 01:19 PM.
#458
#459
Please don't take my word why not contact the AMA and ask? I can tell you exactly what they will say.
Mike
#461
Banned
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Case by case is what it boils down to. Mike's just throwing out an absolute statement (opinion actually) that's just not factually correct, he couldn't possibly know how the process works every time since he's not involved, so he really shouldn't be spreading more misinformation.
#463
Banned
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You are incorrect.
Never said there was but when it comes to the Academy of Model Aeronautics National Model Aircraft Safety Code you along with your club have no choice.but to abide by them.
Please don't take my word why not contact the AMA and ask? I can tell you exactly what they will say.
Mike
Please don't take my word why not contact the AMA and ask? I can tell you exactly what they will say.
Mike
The safety codes by both entities should absolutely be followed, but when it comes to accidents and claims, there is no template used in determining when/if coverage would be afforded, its case by case. Exceptions are always made.
#464
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 09-01-2016 at 02:35 PM.
#465
Join Date: Sep 2009
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You know that, it's rule #1. "You can't fly here without AMA!" Universally enforced at chartered club flying sites. The rest are more or less optional depending on whether Deputy Fife (every club has at least one) is on site.
#466
Can you point to any claims you know of that have been rejected specifically for not following the Safety Code?? I know of claims paid where the person was NOT strictly following the Safety Code, so go figure.
#467
#468
Thread Starter
Case by case is what it boils down to. Mike's just throwing out an absolute statement (opinion actually) that's just not factually correct, he couldn't possibly know how the process works every time since he's not involved, so he really shouldn't be spreading more misinformation.
And who has the authority to decide which rules and regs "must be strictly adhered to" and which do not?
Where is that authority delegated?
Is that the individual AMA member?
Does it have to be done in advance?
Is it done at club level?
Does the waiver have to be in writing?
What prevents someone from just waiving some, many, or even all the rules?
#469
Thread Starter
I'm a big believer in waiver authority, but there's got to be some structure and accountability behind it or it's just a license to do whatever you want. I could waiver all sorts of things at my base, and would when I felt it appropriate. But that authority was limited to me, and even my authority was not unlimited. Some required higher review. But my point is there was a structure to govern waivers. They were routinely reviewed to unsure the culture had not drifted too far.
#470
Thread Starter
How in the world could Mike possibly answer that. AMA wont' share membership demographics with members, let alone detailed claims history and results of litigation. Also, it's not the AMA deciding whether to pay the claim or not (largely), it's the insurance company. And the insurance company is accountable to their shareholders, so they don't pay claims just to be nice.
#471
Case by case eh?
And who has the authority to decide which rules and regs "must be strictly adhered to" and which do not?
Where is that authority delegated?
Is that the individual AMA member?
Does it have to be done in advance?
Is it done at club level?
Does the waiver have to be in writing?
What prevents someone from just waiving some, many, or even all the rules?
And who has the authority to decide which rules and regs "must be strictly adhered to" and which do not?
Where is that authority delegated?
Is that the individual AMA member?
Does it have to be done in advance?
Is it done at club level?
Does the waiver have to be in writing?
What prevents someone from just waiving some, many, or even all the rules?
"must be strictly adhered to" doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room does it?
Mike
#472
[QUOTE=franklin_m;12253441]How in the world could Mike possibly answer that. AMA wont' share membership demographics with members, let alone detailed claims history and results of litigation. Also, it's not the AMA deciding whether to pay the claim or not (largely), it's the insurance company. And the insurance company is accountable to their shareholders, so they don't pay claims just to be nice.[/QUOTE
I've dealt with enough insurance claims and companies to have a clear understanding of how and why they operate the way they do. They are by no means a charity or Non-Profit.
Mike
I've dealt with enough insurance claims and companies to have a clear understanding of how and why they operate the way they do. They are by no means a charity or Non-Profit.
Mike
#473
Thread Starter
How in the world could Mike possibly answer that. AMA wont' share membership demographics with members, let alone detailed claims history and results of litigation. Also, it's not the AMA deciding whether to pay the claim or not (largely), it's the insurance company. And the insurance company is accountable to their shareholders, so they don't pay claims just to be nice.
Mike
#474
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Case by case eh?
And who has the authority to decide which rules and regs "must be strictly adhered to" and which do not?
Where is that authority delegated?
Is that the individual AMA member?
Does it have to be done in advance?
Is it done at club level?
Does the waiver have to be in writing?
What prevents someone from just waiving some, many, or even all the rules?
And who has the authority to decide which rules and regs "must be strictly adhered to" and which do not?
Where is that authority delegated?
Is that the individual AMA member?
Does it have to be done in advance?
Is it done at club level?
Does the waiver have to be in writing?
What prevents someone from just waiving some, many, or even all the rules?
#475
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Given his repeated comments about claims, and insurance companies, and alluding to knowing how it all works, specifically with regards to denials, the question Silent asked was a fair one. Did he have an actual example, in other words a claim he was specifically involved in. How is that an unfair question? Not a generalization, or a "I heard about this happening at another club" story, but an actual situation he knew of. Silent didn't ask him for AMA insurance info that the EC has, not event close. Silent gave a specific example he knew of, the response to that was "I'd love to hear about it". Right, I'm sure he would, but won't answer a question to back up his own assertion that a claim will only be honored if ALL rules and regs are complied with. That's patently and demonstrably false. Silent knows otherwise, as do I as years ago a member of our club violated not only AMA but club safety rules and after his HO limits were exhausted, the AMA paid an additional $90k.