astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Depends on what one considers worthy of focus I guess. To me, making a quick 60K is just a flash in the pants and it is more important to focus on those that did not want to convert and why, because ultimately, the ideal would be to sustainably grow the ranks with active members who are drawn to the organization because they WANT to, not because they were offered a free membership.

Maybe I am weird.

Regards,

Astro

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

I agree with some of that, but you have also applied a subjective component there as well in noting what you think the AMA has done.

The org is still functioning on behalf of its members.."modelers" of all types, and will continue to do so. It's doubtful the ama is just going to sit back and let itself disappear from relevance because a small fraction of its current (and rapidly aging) membership wants to wax philosophic about the good old days (my characterization by the way).

I would say they need to continue to evolve and adapt just as their members have. Had they stated "true" to their initial charter and purpose, we'd all be chasing free flight models around our fields.

I have no problem with them casting a wide net and trying to be creative about how to gather new members, in fact I expect this from them. Not doing so is simply not an option.

Incidentally I don't see ant suggestions as to how to grow the membership the "right" way, just the usual complaints after the fact about what they did. Outside of "ban the drones"...I'm not hearing much.

Finally, and again, I haven't seen a single complaint raised on the membership initiatives by any member of the EC group, only from one now that he's running for office. I have to wonder why that is.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

We're doing good here today so I will not talk about flashing, pants, or weirdness, lol.

Yes, I guess you're righ, it makes a difference what our focus is. If it cost the AMA nothing and the got new members and a revenue stream, what is the downside. OK, they all quit, but will that really happen? Better to have had something then nothing right? If they can't retain a single person than shame on the ama for not providing some measure of value to its members, or just as bad, not showing folks what the valuation proposition is to folks.

But again, if people aren't interested in what used to be popular, do we sit by and say oh well, time for the AMA to go bye bye?

Sport_Pilot

Yes, and most initiatives usually cost them money, in this case, even if you consider it a failed attempt, they made over 60K.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Still BAD, lol.

I thought the $6.00 price for Google leads was interesting, have no idea how that's calculated, not sure if I thought it would be more or less than that figure

rcmiket

Not weird by any standard just looking at it as it should be.

Mike

jester_s1

I think my statement below was misunderstood by a few commenters. Either that, or it was understood and no one decided to actually respond to what I said. So I'll assume the former and try to clarify.

My point was that if the AMA wants to draw from the exploding MR population (a wise move if it wants to survive beyond this generation), it has to offer them something that makes the membership dues a worthwhile investment. The AMA will have to do something that it hasn't really needed to do for about 40 years, which is to think like an entrepreneur.
Think about how the AMA first started. You had little boys buying balsa wood and glue at the hardware store to build replicas of planes they saw in books or in person. So some wise enthusiast decided to form an organization to bring all of those enthusiasts together. But boys, being kinda weak in the area of budget, need to see value in that investment. So the AMA gave them modeling tips and product reviews in its publication, organized competition events, and helped local clubs get formed. So being an AMA member meant being able to learn more about modeling and able to participate in contests along with some of one's money going toward promoting the hobby. It also gave them an identity by connecting them with other modelers. That was all worth paying for. But with the MR crowd, the AMA has largely forgotten to sit down and work out what they will provide to them if they join. That's why I suggested above being a center for education and competition, because that's what tends to bring enthusiast communities of all kinds together. As it is though, the MR crowd is largely disinterested in the AMA because really all the AMA offers to them is government lobbying and advocacy. Oh wait, I forgot. The AMA has largely disavowed connection to the MR crowd in statements it has made to the FAA, being openly critical to that segment of the hobby and the way they enjoy their machines. So I guess it's not offering representation to the government for their interests either.
So my whole point was that if the AMA wants the MR crowd to join and pay dues (and they'd be fools not to want that), the organization has to provide something to them. I think inclusive government representation is a start, but if the AMA is to establish any real presence in the MR hobby they need to play catch up and start putting together some ways to provide real value to those pilots. If AMA history is any indicator, they won't. The entrepreneurial spirit has been gone from this organization for a long time as the leadership has opted instead to let someone else have the big creative ideas and then the AMA just copies it. Remember the AMA forums? I try not to. But it's not too late just yet for the AMA to get creative and start putting some programs together for MR pilots. If they do, I think we'll see in the long run a lot of crossover between the two interests and significant growth in both.

Sport_Pilot

The AMA originated out of a need for grown men to compete with their sometimes very large free flight models. It was not ever meant to cater to little boy's, other than through separate youth divisions..

mkranitz

My Feedback: (60)

For what it's worth, this is the RCFlightDeck.com Official Endorsement Letter for Pres of AMA.

ENDORSEMENT LETTER

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

It's been noted in other threads. Well written with solid rationale for why you are voting that way, not the usual and popular "Vote for change" mantra.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Great comments. I'd argue that the AMA has tried to make itself attractive to the mr segment of the hobby, perhaps not as good as it can. As you'll note by this and many other threads clearly some feel that the AMA has done nothing but cater to the mr crowd in fact that's one of the candidates seemingly constant position. I've said before they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Not sure what the perfect mix for them will be.

rcmiket

With MulitGP as a AMA sig aren't they already offering what they can? Actually I think that they are the one and only group that have a shot at. The MR camera guys will be hard to attract as I don't think there's anything the AMA can offer them. .

Mike

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Porcia, do you agree or disagree with the above statement?

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Now Porcia can be lumped into the AMA haters club with the rest of us!

Astro

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

So much for having a good day. Jeez.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

It's a loaded question about a loaded premise, with no answer that would suffice for you.

"Ideals" are great, how about reality though. Anyone who joins the ama does so willingly, because they WANT to. If you want to start second-guessing the motivations for people joining well then I think you would find According to some folks here everyone just joined because they have to in order to fly in a field. Folks just love absolutes.

Your ideal is impossible to quantify. Sustainable growth, active members, what does that even mean? Growth is growth, and like most groups, will ebb and flow. We are on an upswing now (no doubt disputed), is that sustainable, who knows. Active membership...what is that, and who sets the definition. There are 214 active members at a club I belong to, I might see 90 of them throughout the year...are the others inactive? They all pay their dues, so they are active.
You've spoken of ideals, but not about a plan or suggestion on how the AMA is supposed to do what you suggest. In this thread, as in others the standard complaints about what happened in the past are popular, but no realistic plan.

Building and kit building is down, giant scale planes and accessories are down (per Tiano himself)...arf, and and rtf are popular, as is the dreaded f word...foamies. an aging membership, a small portion of which is completely against Mr of any kind (except the occasional oh I have one too but still keep them out), apathy to some degree within the membership, and oh, an explosion of interest in drone and mr technology. Let's not forget the warm welcome some clubs and members show to the foamies and mr guys....so ya, it seems like an easy situation to deal with.

Could be why these threads are barren when it comes to actual suggestions....other than "ban them".

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Not sure if you misunderstood what I was trying to portray, or was a misinterpretation. I didn't say the AMA would or should sit back and let itself disappear from relevance because some members want to wax philosophical about the good old days, that was your own self-admitted spin which we all know is not what some of us are adviocating for. Rather it was your way to somehow portray some AMA members' beliefs in a negative way (very transparent, getting old and distracting these threads from being productive,). My point was that the AMA should absolutely do everything in their power to uphold their mission statement and serve their members before focusing on simply increasing their sheer numbers. It is clear to me that the real weakness of the AMA right now is that it already has an apathetic membership (as witnessed by continued low voter participation, disgruntled members (regardless of how low you think the percentage may be), lack of knowledge about the organization itself (by-laws, election protocol, model aviation day, etc)) And that apathy should be the EC's first concern, not $$. In short, build a strong foundation, give your membership what they want and grow from there. Build your house on sand or out of straw and watch it tumble. If you have happy, fulfilled members that have a string sense of their organization, it will thrive at whatever the member count is.

This is simply another unfair and untrue statement. NOWHERE does it state in any initial charter (nor have I seen ANY member here with that opinion) that the AMA's purpose is to advocate for free-flight modelers. Just more spin on your part as the AMA has successfully advocated for many of the advancements in technology over the years since the organizations inception (RC, helicopters, turbines, giant scale, etc). Once again, for clarifications' sake, the vast majority of folks that are calling for any kind of seperation, are asking for seperation from AUTONOMOUS, BLOS FLIGHT (regardless of how many props, rotors, wings or turbines it may or may not have). That is the one new technology that truly brings with it a whole new set of challenges. That is the fact and would be difficult for anyone to deny. Things brings us to where some members are divided. I believe that the AMA is and will always be woefully equipped and unable to safely assure other users of the NAS that by following their guidance, there will never be any manned vs. autonomous incidents. We (AMA members and clubs) have proven we can self-police and operate safely at our fields and WLOS. BLOS, Autonomous operations is a completely different animal! Please stop referring to the "traditionals" as free-flight and control line dinosaurs, you know full well where most of us are drawing the line defining traditional.
See my above comments. Keep your members engaged, happy and wanting to belong.

And that, my friend, is the root of all of these discussions! Our leadership doesn't see there is an issue, even when their members are disengaged and unhappy, why would the EC discuss the forest, when they can't see the trees? There is no, "AMA is evil" campaign going on as much as you try to portray, simply unhappy members recognizing the need and asking for change. Don't vilify those that are simply voicing their concerns. Disagree if you must, but please do not vilify or spin because you do.

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

What, don't like the taste of your medicine?

It may seem childish, but it is only fair, right?

It is your continued jabs that cause comments like that. Tired of repeatedly reading yours and letting them go unchecked

Astro

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Lol...fantastic logic. Perfect.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

That is a covenient way to avoid a simple question, to avoid taking a stance that may not be convenient to your agenda to continually spin these threads from having any real purpose and impact.
That is an absolutely untrue statement. There have been NUMEROUS members here in this forum that have stated they joined because they HAD to join in order to fly at their club. their ultimate WANT was to fly, NOT TO JOIN
. Haha! You want absolutes? I have heard some members state they joined because they had to, NEVER did they say "everyone" joined for that reason. WORDS....they DO have meaning, and if used incorrectly (on purpose), they can have a whole different meaning (but you know that, right? ; )

you know full well what an active member looks like because it has been discussed ad naseum by yourself and others on these threads. In fact, you use it to berate folks all the time by telling them to run for office or spend their time doing research to become more informed and involved. You know full well it would be impossible to put a definitive picture to the phrase "active member", as it manifests itself differently in each one of us depending on our individual circumstances (time, family, work, $$, experience, etc.). Don't use that as an excuse to diminish the fact that a majority of our members are apathetic when it comes to any activity other than flying.
See my previous comments. A good start would be for the AMA EC to proactively reach out to its membership and ask their opinions more often. One can surmise that a slent membership is a content one, but it is clear to me that in this case, a sent membership is simply an apathetic one.

Nobody claimed it would be easy.

Yet another untruth!! I have not seen one person make a suggestion to, "ban them", That is simply your way of making it, shall YOU say, "absolute"

Astro

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

It may seem childish, but it is only fair, right?

It is your continued jabs that cause comments like that. Tired of repeatedly reading yours and letting them go unchecked

Astro

You agree that you acted like a child, because you're frustrated at what you feel is my childish behavior to others, so in order to give me a taste of my own medicine, you decide to "check" me. And then blame that behavior on me.

Between this and recent comments it appears as though you're determined to teach me some kind of bizarre lesson, someone else spent years trying to do that, perhaps the baton has been passed. If you want to have a discussion about the issues, absent the petty antics, let's engage and discuss. Otherwise....I'll agree to disagree. Off to ask Mr Tiano some questions!

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Ironic you would reply to this particular post TWICE and not acknowledge the other one that does discuss the issues at hand.

I also couldn't help but notice you had to add the, "agree to disagree" jab as some way to have the last word?

Nice touch!

Same old, same old!

Astro

Hydro Junkie

DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Another thread, more drama and from the same old suspects. I figured it would be so and, sure enough, I was right. Glad I don't have any other posts in here and won't have any more either

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Hey man, I did try!

cj_rumley

Astro, your last few posts discussing the issues were very well thought out and presented, and appreciated. On several points you were reading my mind and expressing my thoughts better than I can.

Your replies to Porcia83 were pretty much worthless. Please consider disengaging.