further bluring the line
#152
It's just keeps getting better and better.
Academy of Model Aeronautics District V » FAA rules concerning club trainers
Academy of Model Aeronautics District V » FAA rules concerning club trainers
#155
Oh, I don't know....
- Maybe like not deciding on a SINGLE policy to define how they want it done? Geez...make a decision!
- Asking someone to expose themselves to liability by putting their number on an aircraft they're not flying?
- Not building a compliance mindset from the beginning by asking someone to register (not like it's the law or anything)?
- Maybe like not deciding on a SINGLE policy to define how they want it done? Geez...make a decision!
- Asking someone to expose themselves to liability by putting their number on an aircraft they're not flying?
- Not building a compliance mindset from the beginning by asking someone to register (not like it's the law or anything)?
#157
Maybe to a big wig like you, but it's a big deal asking someone to put their own personal info on something and then allow someone else to fly it. AMA can say that FAA isn't going to go after you. But if your information is not on it at all, the chance is ZERO.
Why bother taking the risk?
Why bother taking the risk?
#158
" Does any of your clubs have club trainers? If so read below to be legal with the FAA.
Two solutions below have been approved by the FAA:
Mike
Two solutions below have been approved by the FAA:
- The easiest solution is for a club leader to place his or her number on all of the trainers. The club leader does not need to be present when the model is flying. If there is an incident that involves an FAA investigation, the FAA typically focuses on the “Pilot In Command” and not on the person who lent their registration number.
- The club can use a disposable or replaceable label that is changed depending on the instructor or student. Some clubs use masking tape that can be easily removed. Other clubs use plastic and a dry-erase marker.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 01-17-2018 at 03:15 PM.
#159
Moderator
That looks to me like giving advice to clubs on how not to violate the law. FREE legal advice, mind you. Or legal advice we've paid for with dues but given without us needing to ask. However you prefer to spin it, it's helpful and thoughtful. I see nothing there about clubs checking registration. But in that tiny chance of someone from the FAA showing up wanting to check it or the ever so slightly larger chance of an accident happening and that number being asked for, this lets the pilots be assured they are in compliance with the law. Would anyone rather have the AMA not explain this to us?
#160
That looks to me like giving advice to clubs on how not to violate the law. FREE legal advice, mind you. Or legal advice we've paid for with dues but given without us needing to ask. However you prefer to spin it, it's helpful and thoughtful. I see nothing there about clubs checking registration. But in that tiny chance of someone from the FAA showing up wanting to check it or the ever so slightly larger chance of an accident happening and that number being asked for, this lets the pilots be assured they are in compliance with the law. Would anyone rather have the AMA not explain this to us?
I'm not spinning anything. If the AMA is not asking anyone to check registration than why bother?
From the AMA site.
Q: Should clubs, contest directors, or event leaders require all pilots be registered?
A: No, we are not asking our clubs or contest directors to police UAS Registration. That decision is up to each individual club and event leader.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 01-18-2018 at 04:10 AM.
#161
Moderator
Right, and the statement quoted above is in line with that policy. Giving hobbyists advice about how to be in compliance is not the same thing as requiring clubs to police FAA registration. The truth is if one of us gets checked out by the FAA and is not in compliance, it won't matter at all what the AMA did or didn't do or require. It sounds to me like some are just looking for a way to be offended no matter what the AMA does.
#162
Right, and the statement quoted above is in line with that policy. Giving hobbyists advice about how to be in compliance is not the same thing as requiring clubs to police FAA registration. The truth is if one of us gets checked out by the FAA and is not in compliance, it won't matterat all what the AMA did or didn't do or require. It sounds to me like some are just looking for a way to be offended no matter what the AMA does.
Mike.
#163
My Feedback: (3)
There in is the rub, there are not enough concerned members to herald a change OR!!!!! the majority of the membership is OK with things as they are. No you can only speak for another member if you hold his proxy vote at the time a vote is called for.
Take this thread for instance. How many are participating? A dozen or two out of how many members. Is it any wonder they can choose to ignore you?
Dennis
#165
Let me be the first to say I'm NOT a member and, with all the stuff I've been reading, it's hard to justify the cost of membership. Knowing that people like Rich Hanson want to waste money on white elephants and that the home office is a payroll glut, just to name a few reasons, I just can't justify spending the money. I think the part that really slams the door shut, in my case anyway, is to see how some of the members try to gloss over or rationalize the issues rather than admit the organization has some very serious problems. Until the powers that be can figure out how to cut costs and be considerably more fiscally responsible, just for starters, it's not worth it
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 01-18-2018 at 10:03 AM.
#166
My Feedback: (1)
There in is the rub, there are not enough concerned members to herald a change OR!!!!! the majority of the membership is OK with things as they are. No you can only speak for another member if you hold his proxy vote at the time a vote is called for.
Take this thread for instance. How many are participating? A dozen or two out of how many members. Is it any wonder they can choose to ignore you?
Dennis
Take this thread for instance. How many are participating? A dozen or two out of how many members. Is it any wonder they can choose to ignore you?
Dennis
Regards,
Astro
#167
My Feedback: (3)
Based on my first-hand experience, it is my belief that the vast majority of AMA members are so disengaged that they don’t have a clue what goes on in Muncie. That is a far cry from them being “okay” with it and I tend to think that the Leadership knows and understands that and want to keep it that way so they can continue to do as they please.
Regards,
Astro
Regards,
Astro
Dennis
Last edited by Propworn; 01-18-2018 at 05:16 PM.
#168
I think there are a couple of things making it more difficult for the AMA to get new members , specifically ;
#1 , People just do not seem to be as eager to be members of clubs like the AMA as they were in years past . This is the real reason , I believe , that the AMA is grasping at any and all options to remain afloat , that although the numbers of folks interested in flying machines has grown exponentially with the whole hobby based "drone revolution" , the AMA has not seen a corresponding rise in membership numbers .
#2 , With the exception of us who fly at traditional clubs who are required to have an AMA membership , this new hobby offshoot that's selling all these millions of units annually has no need of the traditional club field and thus no pressure to join the AMA . I can not just walk out into the street , put my PT-17 down and take off vertically like a drone can and thus they need no real field to operate from (make no mistake I do NOT condone this type of reckless operation , but truth be told I see a lot more Utube videos of folks operating drones in urban areas than I see of them being used at dedicated flying club fields) .
For better or worse , the FAA is (I believe) trying to make an honest go of integrating non manned commercial flight into the present air travel system . I do believe their ultimate goal is the safety of the airspace for all users , manned & unmanned . The AMA is struggling to find it's niche in this brave new world in a do or die battle for it's very future survival . Sadly , I believe , there is no place for the AMA in the future of these FAA controlled commercial operations as it's presently run (non profit educational hobby organization only) and that to survive the AMA would need to become something far beyond it's original mission of hobby advocacy , a full blown commercial organization that would ultimately leave those of us (hobbyists) who built it behind . As my poll thread indicates , I'd rather the AMA cease to exist if the hobby can no longer support it rather than see it become just another for profit commercial insurance brokerage or for profit commercial "drone pilot's school" .....
Last edited by init4fun; 01-18-2018 at 05:31 PM. Reason: clarify a point
#169
Moderator
I don't think the FAA registration has anything to do with the AMA's membership worries. As I stated above, the hobby in general is in decline. As the hobby goes, so the AMA goes unless it shifts its focus. Part of it is cultural- a lot of the younger hobbyists don't want to be part of a group. Yet oddly enough groups are forming organically as people figure out it's really boring to fly drones by yourself. I agree the paradigm of club fields and AMA sanctioning won't work with the drone crowd. It's still a bit early to know what will work, but history shows that building community is the key. That's what got the AMA to where it is now, and that's what will carry it into the future if it is to survive.
#170
#171
Right, and the statement quoted above is in line with that policy. Giving hobbyists advice about how to be in compliance is not the same thing as requiring clubs to police FAA registration. The truth is if one of us gets checked out by the FAA and is not in compliance, it won't matter at all what the AMA did or didn't do or require. It sounds to me like some are just looking for a way to be offended no matter what the AMA does.
#172
The AMA is struggling to find it's niche in this brave new world in a do or die battle for it's very future survival . Sadly , I believe , there is no place for the AMA in the future of these FAA controlled commercial operations as it's presently run (non profit educational hobby organization only) and that to survive the AMA would need to become something far beyond it's original mission of hobby advocacy , a full blown commercial organization that would ultimately leave those of us (hobbyists) who built it behind . As my poll thread indicates , I'd rather the AMA cease to exist if the hobby can no longer support it rather than see it become just another for profit commercial insurance brokerage or for profit commercial "drone pilot's school" .....
#173
My Feedback: (1)
It only took them 8 years to take action????????
Here's my Cliff's Notes version of that article:
"We have no clue what we are doing, and we are failing. Anybody out there that can do our jobs for us?"
Wouldn't it just be easier to "clean house" and let someone that is capable earn the salary and right the ship?
Regards,
Astro
#174
You have a gift for brevity ... and accuracy.
#175
Moderator
The house cleaning style of problem solving rarely results in a better overall situation. It's essentially a decision made in anger. They rarely go well.
franklin m- You make a good point. I agree with you. 99.9% of the time no one will care if we've registered or have our numbers on our planes. But it is a compliance piece, and if we don't do it and do get into trouble, it's a mark against us if we haven't done it. I like that the AMA is making us aware of where we stand. I appreciated their communication during the whole legislation process. They boiled it all down to simple procedures to follow for us to be in compliance, and they kept us informed of where the process was and what their goals were. In the final analysis, they did a good job.
franklin m- You make a good point. I agree with you. 99.9% of the time no one will care if we've registered or have our numbers on our planes. But it is a compliance piece, and if we don't do it and do get into trouble, it's a mark against us if we haven't done it. I like that the AMA is making us aware of where we stand. I appreciated their communication during the whole legislation process. They boiled it all down to simple procedures to follow for us to be in compliance, and they kept us informed of where the process was and what their goals were. In the final analysis, they did a good job.