The Toolman

They just might hafta do like the rest of us are doing in todays economy, sell some of that high $ property an bldg an move into something they can more afford. Quit wasting $ chasing dvd sales, park pilot program, an some of the other hare brain schemes. Thats one of the reasons I got out of it. They will end up wasting enough $ on schemes that they will want a dues raise to pay for the losses on these things

dbcisco

I think it was the people who don't care who speaks for them:
"the 85-90 percent of folks that do not even bother to vote in AMA elections"

The Toolman

For Whom The Bell Tolls?

DR.B.S.

Are you speaking for them?

dbcisco

Anyone can, they didn't vote... get it?

DR.B.S.

No, and to think you get it may not be true either. To think you know what everyone of those people are thinking and their motives why might be a bit beyond anyone's ability, get it?

DR.B.S.

I agree with you 100% Toolman. To add to that, it would be nice to see money spent on advertising. Not to people that already fly and know about the AMA but the market that has no idea about how to fly and want to, and don't know where to begin, but how to get help also.
We already know all this but we seem to be the target market, lol.

The Toolman

Yer right, we already know what we're doing [sm=bananahead.gif]

They need to advertise where it counts, people that are mechanicly inclined, Hot Rod magazine, Popular Mechanics, Experimental aircraft mag, Home Shop Machinist. things like that, that attract guys an boys interest.

dbcisco

All great ideas. So why isn't Muncie doing any of these things ?

fireman350

Here is an example from what I see every day from my desk I am the manager of a LHS I am a gp dealer along with a few other distributors once a week I sell a kid a new airplane always a rtf electric because that's what is selling I offer free lessons with the new aircraft at my location I help them set it up for flight step by step explaining what I am doing and usually after a couple lessons they are good to go. We have a local flying model club I know some of the members and I visit them once a month asking them what I can do to help them they are mostly in their 60ies good guys for the most other than one gent thats given me a bad taste in my mouth they ask me to send them new members but they dont visit my shop they all generally by online from guess who, my distrubitors retail outlet. I've tried to help them offered to put flyers in my window for them I tell my students about them and the AMA . but the field they fly from isn't electric friendly the grass is too full and too long to use for most the aircraft I sell and how do i sell these kids on spending 60 bucks on AMA and another 20 for dues on a club they cant use all for a plane they spent 150 to 200 dollars on AMA is a really hard sell for this crowd. What do i tell them about the AMA you get a magazine that really isnt much to brag about and some insurance that you probably aren't going to need or use. Please tell me how I can save this dinosaur from extinction . Dont get me wrong I am not against the AMA I was a member at 1 time but now it doesn't do anything for me as a rc pilot and i really have a loss when it comes to a selling point for it help me help you

mountaineer070

Negative...after...negative...posts with no real solutions. If the AMA is truly a dinosaur, or is so out of touch with reality, why do you folks even care to discuss it? Seems to me that most of those who post are not members...will not join a club...because they might charge $50 a year to fly that $900 airplane. Everyone wants somebody else to do all the work and then fly for free on someone else's dime...so why would you even care to do anything to better the AMA? I agree with each and every person who has posted on this thread, nothing AMA will ever do will be enough. That is very unfortunate.

If you are opposed to the AMA, then I suggest you are against the very club structure that supports flying fields and this is borne out by several posts that alude to using Parks instead of organized clubs...with the sorry excuse that some of the elders leave a bad taste in their mouth because they demand protection for their expensive facilities. Is there a better way...Sure...but not one has mentioned it. If AMA only insures its members...then clubs should purchase their own insurance and charge accordingly...an additional $58 per year per member to pay for the coverage. Sound about right to me.

From where I stand, as a new AMA member, RCU forums are just a place for *****ing and complaining with no real interest in protecting the future of model aviation. No real solutions...and when solutions are suggested...there is seven reasons why it won't work. You folks have a good life...and enjoy your hobby while it lasts...and when it is gone along with the clubs that support it...don't start looking for anyone to blame except yourselves. 

Last post...for it's a waste of time to try and convince a minority of closed minds that there can be a better future. 

 

The Toolman

I'm glad you got to enjoy our little group for the short time you were here.....

dbcisco

If the great minds in the EC can't figure it out, how can us simple folk ?
There have been more positive suggestions in this thread than has come from Muncie.
Don't blame the soldiers for officers who don't lead.

fireman350

Think back even 10 years ago, when I started I had to save up about 1000 dollars to buy my first hangar9 solo star electric planes then didn't really exist the ones that were around were nothing but toys but the game has changed vastly since then you don't need all the space to fly that a club offered now there not just 3 big distributors there are now 300 from BH to NP and many many more the lions share of the market has gone now from the builders like some of us the the out of the box to the field group the AMA really doesn't offer a whole lot to the group us builders are fading away Byron used to make beautiful kits and they had to close that part of the business now they make pool and patio furniture like it or not or hobby has changed some of us old guys know and see the beauty in building a 1/4 scale and putting endless hours in it but if I was new to it I'd take that same 1000 bucks and buy 5 rtfs the game has changed but the AMA there really is no ama competitions for the foam park fliers no fields charted for that purpose no advertising in MA for them and until the AMA or we as members decide to change that when us builders go to the hangar in the sky so will the AMA WHAT CAN WE DO TO CHANGE THAT??

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

Mountaineer070: It's disheartening to see your spirit and vigor sapped by the naysayers and perpetual complainers. They like tp say that it's all for the good of the AMA but after awhile you see that it is only a front for problems they have that go way beyond joining a club or supporting the AMA.

Give it a break for awhile and then come back. You may not know, or ever know, of the casual visitor who was inspired by something you wrote.

I've wondered for years why some who are not AMAmembers, and who have sworn that they never will be members, have to come in here and $%%# in the AMA'smesskit. It must bring some sort of sick pleasure to try to ruin it for others.

I'm outa here too ............................. adios, muchachas

dbcisco

Because this isn't the AMA's messkit. This is RCU. The AMA's mess is elsewhere.

KidEpoxy

Mountaineer
Real soultions that you disagree with are still real solutions

Well, I dont have any particulars...
but we know the AMA figured it was worth a shot
to offer a membership tier with a cheap magazine to replace MA and sell the tier for almost HALF what Open pay.

While that tier had a bunch of problems,
the concept they(muncie) fronted, that you can have a $26 cheaper membership without MA,
is worth considering in a different, less restrictive application to appeal to all aeromodelers... details TBD

Worth a shot, right?

'Better' implies 'not the same'.
What was that we heard about the reason ED JC left?
We have been trying to make AMA better for years, some of us for decades,
maybe you should look at the AMA memebsr that are fighting so hard to resist change.
(note: Membership is falling like a rock and yet Never Change Nuthin is the order of the day... and that is something else that needs to change)


You want to make the AMA better than it is now?
Welcome to our team.

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

I believe the AMA is doing what it can and should to grow the AMA. The problem is that model aviation, in general, is not growing in those areas that need the AMA. Changing the AMA won't fix that.

When a kid can buy an RTF park flyer for less than $100 and fly it in the local school yard where he has a paved runway and 5 acres of open land over football and soccer fields, its a hard sell to both him and his parents that they should join a club.

The urbanization of many parts of the country (major population centers) is continually threatening existing club fields. Land prices are so high as to make club purchase of the 50 acres or more needed to support a quality flying site nearly impossible. We can't expect the AMA, for $58 per year from each member, to help clubs buy said fields.

Our future must be in those people that are willing to commit the time and resources to the hobby. If that group is shrinking due to the economy, so be it. An organization that is 130,000 - 140,000 strong is still a pretty large organization, and has a lot going for it. Growth is not always a good thing. I'd rather have a local club of 30 active flyers than a local club with 30 active flyers and 70 members that we see once a year. Mind you, I'll still collect the dues. But I'm not going to go out and recruit more inactive members.

Brad

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

Sometimes the giants need to come down to the ground before anything can get done by the real workers. It is the old 20/80 rule. Twenty percent of the people do eighty percent of the work. I have seen this my whole life and rarely have I seen an org that could carry out any real work because the majority of them are so tied up in red tape and board of director slop to the point they just cannot get the engines started and the wheels moving in any decent direction. It happens.

Also work is directed in certain areas instead of being equal standard for all. I am sure many feel this way about the money being pumped in certain areas and not in others. In other words orgs are biased to whom they help and this "respect" will eventually get you in trouble. Orgs have to shoot for a standard across the board that is best for all concerned. It can be difficult to do.

There have been many solutions offered throughout the forums. Not a mention of any consideration of those solutions by AMA. Some have posted in a manner, "Well here is what they (AMA) did for us." (my paraphrase) Again something as simple as promotional materials to grow the hobby and the clubs would be valuable to all clubs involved in AMA. It just hasn't happened and it is doubtful it will.

So to restate a question, why do we need the AMA? To promote science and education of RC, correct?

dbcisco

It just says that in the Articles of Incorporation to get tax exempt status. Its a 45 year old document that is as useless as the US constitution.

phlpsfrnk

I hope you didn't mean that. Have you ever lived or traveled overseas?

Frank

fliers1

I have to admit that when I'm teaching someone, I sincerely love the idea of having the flight line all to myself and my student. I'm sure that there are many fliers who are nervous when flying with other planes in the air. Then there are the instructors on their way to burnout or those who cringe when beginner day comes around or when he sees a newbie show up with his trainer seeking help.

Then there are fliers who would rather not have to dodge trainer planes piloted by newly soloed newbies. Even once the newbie becomes a somewhat skilled pilot, that means everyone will have to wait that much longer for the frequency pin, although with the advent of 2.4, that may not be such a problem anymore. Still, that does mean there is another airplane to watch out for.

Considering the utter importance of providing flight instruction for growth efforts, if such help isn't readily available and on a continuing basis, significant growth will always be all but impossible. After all, who really likes sweating bullets teaching what the industry and AMA needs, which is an endless supply of newcomers to the hobby/sport? With every newcomer, the AMA makes money, the industry makes money, but we are expected to do their in-the-field, hands-on promoting for the free. (giving back to the hobby) What's wrong with this picture? What did PT Barnum say?

Fliers1

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

Good post. I think that many feel that the AMA and RC is all inclusive just because the AMA has been around for a long time. I think it is hard to separate the two at times and many are not willing to admit that RC is separate from AMA. AMA is just an org created to promote science and education of RC and many don't agree that the AMA is accomplishing this task.

Just how intertwined are the two? From AMA's point of view they are fully joined and RC cannot exist without AMA. They have to have RC unless they divert to other types of hobbies and change direction. This type of dependency is not the best position to have, but it is a dependency. From the view of RC hobby, RC can exist without any alternate org (except of course obeying legal), or many alternate orgs. RC can encompass many orgs.

If you train a newby with the intent of getting a person flying RC because your heart is in it (you love training and working with newbies) and you know the excitement and joy the newby will grow to love then you have a great accomplishment. I believe this is really the heart of many in the hobby. They truly have a love for aviation, or a love for just getting out and flying and of course many love to teach new people about the hobby. From reading all your posts, I believe you have that heart for the hobby.

The_Mad_Hatter_632

a lot of this has to do with attitude, i talk with a couple a friends that are AMA, right after talking with them i'm ready to join.......
then i come to the forum's and read all the attitude and figure no way.
weather it be change or you don't want a nub in your ranks, weather you think your protecting your brand in some cases your doing more harm then
good .
telling someone that they've done the club a favor by not joining, or by throwing out insults , it does not help your club or the AMA .

if you own a business how would you attract new customers........................ it's the same approach you should be using for your club and the AMA .
otherwise your killing your business it's just like suicide ................

Arbo

Because some folks actually do not want to see the organization end up like the dinosaurs did. And I don't understand why so many seem to be ok with it heading that way.