littlecrankshaf

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A standing ovation from me! You get it!

bigedmustafa

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I helped organize a two part function for a cub scout den a few months ago. We sat a bunch of seven to twelve-year old boys down and built Delta Dart free flight planes with them from the AMA/Midwest Products kits. It turned out to be quite a bit of fun, and a number of kids took right to it. Several other kids were completely clueless, of course, but we did get a very positive response overall.

The next Monday evening, the scouts came out to the local flying field and the club put on a little air show for them to demonstrate various helicopters, EDF jets, and aerobatic aircraft. After an hour or so of demonstration flying, we took the kids and parents up on the club trainers with buddy box setups.

If all we'd done was build Delta Dart kits, we probably would have bored as many children as we delighted. Mixing together some building activities with flying time or simulator time creates more opportunity for the entire group of kids to relate to at least part of the aeromodeling activity.

Kids don't like to do ANYTHING for too long, so you have to mix things up to keep them interested. It only takes an hour or so for a child and an adult to build a Delta Dart free flight kit, so whether or not a child can stay focused on the entire project from start to finish usually just depends on the individual child.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Another good post.

I have over the years come up with a policy. As someone that has spent a lot of time instructing people, young and old and have watched them get to some level of proficiency and then just quit and get out, I have come to a very real conclusion. For some it is just another activity on their long list of things to do or just that, an activity. For others it a life long desire. I now ask the potential student one question...Why are you wanting my instruction. If thier answer is along the lines of "my wife thought I should take up a hobby and this seems neat" I am done...will not waste my time but if they say something like "every since I was a kid I wanted to do this but life just got in the way" I am there! So, as you can see I am a firm believer the "seed" has to be planted long ago... Now if you understand what I have just said you also understand importance of just how the "seed" is planted. The ones that do the best are those that had the seed planted inadvertently...I have had little luck with "trying to make them interested".

People that tell me that they were somehow introduced to model aviation by pure happenstance is always the ones that are much more likely to succeed.

We should take every opportunity to ensure the youth will have some ability to see us in action...they probably won't be able to participate until latter in life but the seed will be with them germinating.

MajorTomski

Why isn't the first example a place to plant the seed also? It has been my experiance that just the short time it takes to teach someone to safely take off, fly and land is not that big of an investment. And I have had those who've tried it under the circumstances you menttion come back years later because they had a couple of postitive flights with an instructor who was enthused about the hobby.

I also completely agree that our training programs have to be aimed at the short attention generation. Lectures as a starting point don't cut it anymore. Instant feedback of sucessfully flying or taking off or landing will get them back for further involvment. Once involved they will come to you asking questions that will open the door to sitting down and discussing the points of a lecture.

Also odd to see that the post above was in direct reply to the OP almost as if he didn't see there are 100+ pages in this thread.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Every man has only 24 hours in a day...I use them the best way I see fit. Fair enough???

combatpigg

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Hobby King and the AMA are now accepting EBT cards, so the hobby scene ought to be picking up momentum shortly.

Jim Branaum

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I think this is THE problem. Lectures, or anything an instructor does will not plant the seed unless the 'victim' takes something away from the encounter. I generally start by getting in the air as fast as possible, but the victim needs to know what control does what, at least enough to know what stick I am talking about when I say pull on the elevator. The important minutiae can be covered after that flight when the victim is happy with the results. Oh, I have found that if they were happy with the results, sooner or later they come back.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

How many of us who are "lifers" in this hobby needed people to devise carefully planned strategies and programs to get us hooked..?
RC aviation grew to what it is because it was the most advanced way to play in "virtual reality" with electronic toys that there was.
It was pure magic.
It is now being upstaged by other toys that take less effort and are much less of a financial risk to get involved with.
There are also RTF RC aviation toys that take no deep involvement,no real challenge to master and that serves to lessen the sense of accomplishment.
It tends to make this sport less special.
There will always be a certain percentage of the gene pool who take great interest in model aviation, but those numbers are due to shrink as the novelty of this hobby slowly wears off.
The issue with having conveniently located areas that are suitable to fly a "AMA sized" model will continue to test the resolve of those who aren't sure if they want to get involved or not.
I try not to fret over what can't be controlled.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

That really is a good question....Not sure how it could ever be answered though. Modeling can be a very deep interest for some and model aviation is just one facet of modeling. I think there will always be those that enjoy modeling...as you suggest, Its in their blood. It may be model cars, trains boats...whatever... Maybe they fly models that really aren't even scale replicas of full scale...does that make them less of a modeler? No, as the challenge may be to emulate the flight.. Bottom line, if one is participating in any facet or degree of model aviation, they have a kindred spirit to us that consider ourselves "lifers"...like it or not. We have to be wise enough to see that and not diminish other's pursuit of modeling. If we fail to see that clearly, then we are full of ourselves...and leave no room to be tolerant of others... Contempt is the very disease that will befall us every time. Some will live long enough to understand that and some won't...

So, if you can understand what I just said you can also understand there is no "grade" for model aviators...and you can also see that it really is an "each to his own" and we really are "into this together". God gave you this day, so you shouldn't try to take it from someone else. Pretty simple.

804

My Feedback: (1)

It strikes me as absurdly comical, or comically absurd, that anyone could possibly develop an elitist attitude
towards any facet of model aviation. But it happens.
Just amazing.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It has nothing to do with elitism or contempt when I say that when any activity is made too easy to master, when the challenge is removed, then the reward is also diminshed. IOW..it makes that endevour less special. Less of a novelty. It becomes boring, [like comparing driving a manual shift to an automatic]
Is that so hard to understand..?
I see this as just 1 aspect of why model aviation isn't more popular than it is already.

bogbeagle

"How many of us who are "lifers" in this hobby needed people to devise carefully planned strategies and programs to get us hooked..?"


Best sentiment that I have read in this thread.

Can someone tell my why there is all this angst over "bringing new people into the hobby"?

I mean, I don't care how many people become model flyers.

I'm gonna participate and I will seek out those of like mind.



So, I ask again, "Why is it deemed important to recruit new flyers?"



From the POV of a commercial body, such as the AMA or the BMFA ... I can see that new fee-paying members are important. But, from the POV of the ordinary flyer ... not so much.

MajorTomski

To allow the hobby to continue safely and with as much fun as possible.

I'm not in favor of huge expensive productions to drag people who have no interest out to the field, just to see them leave and the club's funds depleted because of the advertising. But, we do need to be open to everyone who does take the time to come to the flying field and try to let them see that it is a fun hobby.

And to point out the benefits of joining together under common sense safety criteria to keep the hobby alive. When this isn't done you get what we have in Oklahoma City. There is a one line law in the Oklahoma City code BANNING ALL model flying on all city land unless it is at an "approved" flying field. There's a soccer field sized area next to my house. I face a fine if I take my rubber band powered free flight airplane out to that area and fly. Isn't that a bit ridiculous? We have that law because a bunch of "I hate clubs and the AMA" flyers, renegades if you will, literally terrorized joggers and soccer players on the south side of town. So now to fly in OKC you either have to join the AMA to prove you have insurance and fly at the one city run flying site. Or join the AMA and fly at the one AMA club that has a lease on another site or drive to someplace outside the city.

So, not actively recruiting, but openly welcoming anyone who has an interest in the hobby will improve the numbers and show city governments that you are responsible and are an asset to the city as a whole.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Wow, I thought it was sort of an antonymic sarcasm in an effort to point out that modeling is something innate in some people. As he seemed to point to some genetic rationale. Hmmmm....Maybe I was wrong...I thought it seemed strange, agreeing with CP. LOL

Well, I can certainly say, In regards to myself, carefully planned strategies and programs has next to zero if anything at all to do with me being "hooked".

bogbeagle

Post deleted. Can't be bothered with it.

combatpigg

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Our city of Arlington has a general ban on model airplanes of every sort and they have a perfect right to want to protect pedestrians and other park users from getting blindsided by flying toys. By the same token, they have set aside roughly 3 acres of land next to the airport for control line flight, fly rod casting, dog training, etc. but control line flyers who use this spot must first sign a "hold harmless" agreement with the city.
There are homes adjacent to just about every open field on city land and model plane flyers of all sorts have created problems that the City of Arlington no longer wants to contend with.
The City was engaged in a financially devastating lawsuit between an already very wealthy [millionaire] widow who sued the city for not being able to rescue her husband from a full scale crash at a local air show. She was awarded several millions of dollars because the fire truck that was on duty couldn't perform their heroic duty fast enough in her estimation.
A responsible city government at some point has to draw a line somewhere to minimize their exposure to this sort of "lotto" extortion that the law supports.
So, you can invite city officials to see you demonstrate how masterfully you can land your model right on a picnic table every time, but they still must exercise their best judgement when deciding if model planes in general pose a safety hazard or not to the majority of park goers who shouldn't have to wear a football helmut to go have a picnic or take a nap on the grass

[email protected]

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I think X box and Play Station have something to do with it

combatpigg

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Careful, you might get labeled as an "elitist" or "contemptuous" for harboring such beliefs as this by our very own AMA Forum's, "Socrates and Plato Dudes".................

xplayer930

I have been in an out of the hobby for many years now. An at 27 years of age, I am a little discouraged with the AMA. First off, the local fields by me have been closing since the late 90s. I would like to get into helicopters seriously but the closest club to me doesn't allow helis at all. Second of all, some of these fields are an absolute disgrace. Without disclosing information, one of two local fields near me is beyond sketchy. There is also a third field located some miles away which caters to the giant scale guys. From the last I saw it is rather gorgeous. So does that mean I have to spend thousands on a giant scale plane to fly at classy field?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

A giant scale field opened up nearby several years ago and it had annual dues of about $500 if I remember right.
I do not know what their policy was [is] towards smaller planes but an email or phone call would be all I need to find out what their requirements are to fly there.
In your case, the price to gain access to a nice AMA field might be pretty steep within a short drive of Long Island..?

JW0311

Not my intention to start an argument with you, but I'm not sure I agree. I got goose bumps the first time I greased a landing with my 100$ RTF foamy Super Cub and didn't drill it into the ground like some kind of bunker busting bomb. As a result of that, I now have two unfinished kit builds on the table and one completed kit. On the days that I'm unable to build, I have to vigorously sniff CA in order to prevent withdrawals. If that is the only reward I will ever get from this hobby........ I'll take it! Just my opinion.

James

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

That's terrific that you're enjoying this sport after getting introduced with a RTF plane.
If everyone else who ever tried to fly a RTF plane of any sort was just like you, there would be countless thousands of other guys with builds on the table and quite possibly an AMA card in their wallets.

WVrailfan

Not sure I'm qualified to enter this discussion, at 56 years old, I've only been flying a couple of years. I have however been a model railroader for 45 years.

Flying RC is something I always wanted to try, but never would take the plunge (read that as I was too cheap to invest model train money in a plane and other equipment I was sure I would crash and destroy) until my wife got me a Hobbyzone Super Cub for fathers day 2011. Being an enthusiast of all things planes, trains and automobiles, I had just enough knowledge to be dangerous. But somehow I managed to become competent on the SC and have since joined a club and grown to more demanding and fun planes.

Having had the recruiting discussion with model railroaders many. many times, I can tell you all hobbies have a lot of competition for young people's time and resources. It is hard to imagine, just 20 years ago most homes didn't have a computer or internet and 30 years ago most home didn't have cable. There was a lot less distraction and young people had time on their hands.

I have seen a huge decline in young people in model railroading over the last few decades. I am guessing the decline of young people in the RC hobby has more or less paralleled that decline.

The one bright spot for both hobbies is that they embrace technology, which I think entices some young people to the hobby. Digital Command Control is to model railroading what 2.4g is to RC flying. DCC allows model railroader to operate a nearly unlimited number of model trains on the same track, independent of one another, much as 2.4g has made it easier for several flyers to operate their planes at the same time. I know for a fact some young folks are modeling trains now because of the ability to more realistically operate model trains using DCC.

One issue I see with RC flying that doesn't apply to model railroading, and some of the more experienced flyers at my club agree, is the marketing by discount sellers of so called "easy to fly" planes. Some go so far as to say "teach your self to fly" on the box and in their ads. Most are at the lower end of the price spectrum and the "you get what you pay for" mantra applies to RC planes above all else.

Some of these so called easy to fly planes are hard for an experienced RC flyer to get in the air. Imagine the frustration of a young flyer, or a father child pair, putting together a plane, taking it to a school yard or park, and finding out 20 seconds into the first flight that it's not that easy to fly. The plane crashes and they figure "if I can't fly the easy to fly models, I'm not going to get an expensive plane just to crash." They give up before they ever get started.

Some of the veteran members at my club tell of times at the flying field right after Christmas there would always be a person or two show up with a plane they got for Christmas looking for help learning to fly. Now folks get a plane labeled "anyone can fly it" take out the day after Christmas crash it in the street in front of their house and never want to fly RC again.

I have to give the guys at my club credit. They didn't make fun of me when I showed up with my 3 ch trainer. When I stepped up to something more demanding they were there to help. And I have seen them take the same attitude with others, regardless of if they show up with a cheap plane from a discount store or something more main stream. They are helpful and encouraging.

I think if the AMA could suggest to manufacturers and sellers that they not label planes as something anyone can fly, and even suggest on the box that they take their new plane to an AMA field to learn to fly, perhaps some new flyers wouldn't be lost before they get started.

Of course, the second part of that is clubs have to be willing to welcome new members and try to work with what ever they show up with.

Just two cents worth from an old new guy.

Jim

804

My Feedback: (1)

If the shoe fits...
BTW, the "Socrates and Plato Dudes" aren't known for labeling folks with such as
fat, lazy, Mcdonalds happy meal crowd, fascists, or even Socrates and Plato.
But, whatever. Everyone has to be "something".

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Kudos to your club and kudos to the Super Cub...

Around here the Super Cub is a real hit!

A good number of guys around here have learned to fly with the Cub, all by themselves... and then go on to more demanding modeling.

Matter of fact, I just bought my wife one... It's been great to see her excited to go fly. Feels strange though, when she asks "hey, can we go fly today?"