MajorTomski

Other than standing on a tower that puts your eyes at 400 feet AGL how can anyone prove, or disprove for that matter, [sm=confused.gif]that a model is flying moderatly lower or higher than 400 feet above the ground?

For those of you about to point to eagltree systems, it's not calibrated so again its accuracy is questionable.

Dr1Driver

In a situation with a complaint from a full size plane pilot and the acused being an R/C pilot, I'll bet the full scale pilot will win. Documentation not necessary. Remember, it is the responsibility of model airplanes to not interfere with full size planes.

Dr.1

SSRCCPREZ

I tie a string to mine....does that make it a control line?

I just fly low when I see a full size plane....of course where we are sometimes the full sizers are below 400 ft.!!!!

Hmmm...a lil game of chicken never hurt anyone right?

KidEpoxy

Without a complaint, but just to everyday fly within the AMA & AC91-57 400', just how do we know when we are at 350 or 400... or at 425 breaking the law? I think that was the point of the OP.

I use the Speck method. When the plane is so high that it gets harder to see the colorscheme, that is too high.

Regardles of being at 375' or 60', a model should give a wide avoidance to GA aircraft. The easiest is usually just getting down to 50-75' where GA guys dont go. While it may seem the GA planes complain beyond a reasonable clearance, remember, we may lose a model, they may lose their life.

But we do have a recourse, just a s we have a cieling, they have a floor.... and if some GA plane is down too low, call in the N numbers to your local FAA reps. They have to suffer the same Noise Abatement and urban encroachment we do.... this time it would work for us modelers.

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

For me it is easy, Our paved runway is 430ft.
If I stand it on end, that is 400 ft.
It is not that high and most pilots go higher than this on every flight.

The question needs to be are you doing everything including landing to avoid an incident!

KidEpoxy

If 20' isnt low enough to be safe & well clear of GA, requiring you to land.... there are much bigger problems going on at your field than RC pilots should have to contend with. When GA is down to 50' over the rc club Open Air Assembly of People, someone is getting a FAA spank on their Class3: Land and report the N numbers, about 15 or 20 of the club folks should call about 2 mins apart and report the N number & incident to local FAA rep.

But yeah, land if you have to, to be well clear of planes.

Cyberwolf

My Feedback: (4)

We had this very thing happen at our field which is less than 3 miles away from the airport .a full size came over with a model in the air IMO they was both at fault The model looked to me to be over the 400 feet limit ,but the full size was well below the 800 foot limit .I could have counted the rivets on the full size ,so I dare say he was to low .Anyway he made a stink and called the tower about the RC plane and guess what ,The head chief came over and warned us about it ,and when he was approached about the fact the full scale was under the 800 feet limit and also in the wrong flight path to land that didn't matter .Full scale always have the right of way ,Which I already knew .So all I can say when a full scale is in the area keep um low or land if ya like your field ,because it won't take many complaints and a person will be looking for a new flying site .
Nobody wants any sort of a incident we have enough on our plate right now just to keep the privilege to fly our precious models .

Heres a half baked way of telling how high your plane is ,most club members know what the length of there runway is, ours is 450 feet long .If you don't know you can walk it off,134 steps @ 3 foot each will get you close enough.Taxi your plane to that point and look it over good ,notice the color difference, can you still see the vivid colors of the plane or does it go black ,if the latter bring the plane back to where you can see the colors , some see some colors better than others ,but see where your at on the runway .Yes I know different colors will make different yardages as well as aircraft size,but its something that may save your field if you stick with it .

All in all its a pain in the fanny but if I want to continue to fly where I am flying at I have to try to obey the 400 foot celling as best as I can .I know I don't always do it but I make a honest effort to try .
Good luck and happy landings to all.

Dr1Driver

So all I can say when a full scale is in the area keep um low or land if ya like your field ,because it won't take many complaints and a person will be looking for a new flying site

You're right on, Cyber...in an argument between full size and models, the model will ALWAYS lose. What you guys CAN do is report the N numbers to the FAA, over and over again. The more complaints, the better.

We had a private field close to one of my old clubs. A hot shot in a V-tail Bonanza started flying right across our flight space just after takeoff. He had to make a 60 degree turn to do it, so it was deliberate harassment. The owner of the airport paid no attention to our complaints until we told him who would be the loser in a collision between a full size and model plane. Our club would survive somewhere else, the pilot might not survive anywhere. The overflights soon stopped.

Dr.1

SoCal GliderGuider

When asked directly (7-6-2006) what the FAA was doing about all of the complaints that the HSS flyers sent in over the last year (you could read the N numbers) the FAA rep said; "What complaints?"

KidEpoxy

our tax dollars hard at work

DeadAccount237939

so cal glider guy thinks that the faa has no jurisdiction over models...well, i think otherwise and here is my experience. in 2001 i sought an altitude waiver from chino airport so we could host an aerotow event within the controlled airspace of the airport. before i retired from modeling i obtained two Certificates of Authorization from the FAA so I have some idea of what I speak. I met with the airport management and the faa, and was later directed to the so cal faa regional office. i had several conversations with faa personnel from chino airport, and the regional office, and the tower chief from orange county airport - these were not minor players. the faa was very helpful, but one thing that became very apparent is that the faa has absolute authority over u.s. airspace...period, end of discussion. so cal, there is an FAA legal brief floating around that pretty much arms the FAA with federal indictment power should a model airplane be responsible for death or injury. and phaedrus has it and i am willing to be that you don't. any other interpretation is nonsense - good rhetoric, but nonsense. if it potentially interferes with full size traffic, the faa has enforcement power. it does not matter whether it is a model airplane, a weather balloon, or a tall building. it is their airspace, and it starts immediately above ground.


P

KidEpoxy

oops, wrong thread- posted a line of thought for the other FAA thread

MajorTomski

were the complaints made in writing?

SoCal GliderGuider

None of the complaints the low flying private planes made to the tower that has contributed to HSS losing it's altitude were in writing. Guess those should be disregarded too.

SoCal GliderGuider

If you think the FAA has total control good for you. It doesn't. It's not "their" airspace. It's the publics airspace. Besides the ama has no problem flying sailplanes over 400 feet at the munci mecca. They must know someone at the FAA that you don't.

abel_pranger

Well hecky darn then, Hugh. You have resolved the issue. Just go fly as high you please. Why carry on a beef with others that don't know what you do? Let them stay under 400' while you soar like an eagle in your chosen piece of the public airspace. Go fly at whatever altitude you choose over the AMA's site. Better yet, do it over LAX, or the friggen White House. 'Bout time somebody made a stand for our rights to use our airspace that FAA has grabbed and sold out to the commercial operators. GO FOR IT!

Abel

SoCal GliderGuider

Packing as I type this! Where to first???

skyflyUt

I thought the 400 ft ceiling only applied within 3 miles of an airport?

SoCal GliderGuider

It's an advisory not a regulation. The national soaring contest at munci ama regularly goes to a 1,000 feet. So can the ama have it both ways?

pkassoc

This whole discussion is fairly feeble.....All the gen av pilots have to do is say that they almost ran into a plane. If several do this, or one reports several times, even if it didnt really happen, the flying site is history.

abel_pranger

You're the man! - its your call. I just want to be there to whoop and cheer you on. Practicing wrapping this danged towel around my head, but what I see in the mirror so far is butt ugly - gotta work on it. An event like this ought to get some notice, and I want to do my part!

Abel

SoCal GliderGuider

"Hey tower I was just tooling along at oh, 500 feet here over your city and almost ran into a model plane!"

Tower: "Hey pilot please report to the tower when you come in. FAR is 1,000 feet."

skyflyUt

anyone have a link to FAA regs that talk about model airplanes?

SoCal GliderGuider

Just an advisory from 1981:

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/1acfc3f689769a56862569e70077c9cc/$FILE/ATTBJMAC/ac91-57.pdf

There has been more on UAV's lately.

KidEpoxy

SkyFly-
Check page 2 of [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4488019/mpage_2/tm.htm]FAA Regulating Model Airplanes[/link] thread, some talk about FAA AC91-57 & the FAA website.
As usual, the thread has some personal debating going on, just skimm past the arguing to find the FAA Website thing.