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What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

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What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

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Old 10-27-2007, 06:38 AM
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Default What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

This seems to be a common lament on the AMA Forum, here on R/CU. I would guess this question has been asked many times before; however, I don't recall seeing it. The election is going on, two of the presidential candidates are posting here as we speak. This is an opportunity to make your points known, so take the time to post what you'd DESPERATELY like to see changed!

I would suggest posting changes you'd like to see happen, which would be better for all the membership, as opposed to changes benefiting only your special interest group (SIG). This is only a recommendation to attempt to get you to think globally, as opposed to individually. Yes, SIGs have issues and if this is what you feel is needed, go for it; however, excuse me for not seeing your special needs as something the AMA needs to DESPERATELY change!
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Old 10-27-2007, 06:41 AM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

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Old 10-27-2007, 06:57 AM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

Put the Nats back on the road again. The old way allowed a person the chance to compete or watch every third year without having to travel as far as it is to Muncie now a days. This would benefit all members. Thanks Dave
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Old 10-27-2007, 08:19 AM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

More Hooter waitress type RC pilots.
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Old 10-27-2007, 08:25 AM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

I'm with David on this one. We really do need a road show to generate interest in the hobby. People stopping by the several flying fields are often turned off by the attitudes of those flying there. Note; this is not a problem that is specific age groups either. There are as many (if not more) old curmudgeons out there as there are smart a** young guys. I have talked with several people who would have become involved in the hobby, had they not been turned off by the way that they were treated when they stopped to ask a few questions. I think that having the Nats travel again would allow more people to experience what the hobby is all about, and they would get to meet people who are open to conversation with someone who is interested in the hobby.

Bill, AMA 4720
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Old 10-27-2007, 12:54 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

There is nothing AMA related that is desperately needed. That is pure melodrama.
Donor kidneys and hearts are examples of things desperately needed.
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Old 10-27-2007, 12:59 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

How about changing the attitude that:

This hobby is just not for "us".

This hobby is not just for "people we deem worthy to be in it".

its for everyone!!!!!!

that might be a good start....
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Old 10-27-2007, 01:14 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

That is a good point John,
when I mention I dont want to spend a lot of money, I am told by folks here that I need to quit the hobby.
Not just stay away from AMA, but I need to stop flying altogether.
shheesh, talk about My way or Hiway

OS 4stroke: $200+
Cox .049: $7 ........ and you fly a handfull of minutes on each ounce of fuel.

Flying is not expensive, poor folks can still fly.
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Old 10-27-2007, 01:33 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

Last time I checked, neither Tower Hobbies nor the LHS asked me if I was worthy before they took my money.

KE, some of those who say you need to spend more on the hobby will someday wake up at retirement age and suddenly discover that they have nothing much coming in and just a garage full of busted ARFs instead of a halfway decent investment portfolio.

The average American has less equity and savings to show for their efforts today than at any other time since the end of WWII, and people think stagnant/declining AMA membership is the AMAs' fault?
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Old 10-27-2007, 02:27 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

Changes the AMA DESPERATELY needs, is a borrowed statement I saw posted here in the AMA Forum. I agree, there isn't anything in model airplane flying which is "desperately" needed!
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Old 10-27-2007, 03:27 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

Mode One, that is what I figured....when I read that "desperately needed" passage in the other thread, my eyes did barrel rolls in their sockets. It seems like the AMA as an organization is in much better shape than 90% of your average American households, so it seems ludacrous to use the term desperately needed and AMA in the same sentence. Time to go, I desperately need another beer and sandwich now.
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Old 10-27-2007, 04:24 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

So you guy dont think that Ama is in trouble at all, that membership is growing and the future is bright. Lets face it membership is pretty much stagnant, the avg. age is going up, what happens when nature takes its course and our older members are no longer with us? do you really think there will suddenly be new members just magically appear to take their place? Maybe my choice of word desperatly wasnt the best, but without a very very aggresive national campaign the AMA will be in trouble in the future. I would like to see AMA start up a national media campaign, TV, Radio, etc. and really promote the hobby. Possibly starting the moving of the nats. to diff. locations each year along with the media campaign would help to generate intrest.
So there you are, desperate? maybe not by you perception, maybe so to others.
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Old 10-27-2007, 04:42 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

David: I believe that would be the first thought on my list of improvements. My second thought is: Can the operation at Muncie be run more effeciently with less manpower for less monies? Third: What more involvement could AMA have in each state to keep flying sites from being lost, and new ones opened? Yes, I am aware that a lot of cities have more than enough flying sites, but that does not help those that do not. Forth: It has been mentioned that the Model Aviation publication is not self supporting. Some thought needs to be done to at least not having its production running into the red. Fifth: How would the membership like to see the EC meetings moved around the states so those members could attend, and personally discuss situations in their area. This meeting schedule also applies to the District VP's. I read in the MA issues that a lot of VP's do travel within there district, but that does not seem to be the case in Oregon and Washington.

I know that I am going to get hammered on my suggestions as there is a financial cost involved in moving people around the country, but if promoting the AMA to the public is important the leaders and members have to get themselves seen, and not sit at the Muncie location. There are so many types of model aircraft to choose from that the public can choose that area which brings them the most fun. Kids like the Delta Darts, while others are immersed in jet aircraft. It is my belief that our hobby has more to offer in learning than a bunch of video games.

Rich S.
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Old 10-27-2007, 04:46 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

ORIGINAL: LeeL
So you guy dont think that Ama is in trouble at all, that membership is growing and the future is bright.
Ummmm no, it's not as bad or dramatic as some make it out to be. With or without the AMA I'll still be able to fly. In fact the smaller the AMA gets the more independent that more of you will have to be. We'll be forced to think for ourselves, god for bid, and not depend on the monopolistic AMA to make all of our decisions for us. In time you might even decide for yourselves who you want to fly at your field and who you don't want to fly at your field seeing that the AMA suggestions are a little too controlling for a lot of you guys.

And as far as the NATS goes, they should most certainly keep it at Muncie, every organization needs it's Graceland. Many other organizations I know of depends on the SIG's to produce and host regional events, which we also do in the AMA. But the grand event should always be held at the National flying site.

So no, it's not really that bad.
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Old 10-27-2007, 05:11 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

Half year membership for half year of dues or a monthly membership for 1/12th the annual cost.
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Old 10-27-2007, 05:31 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

So STL, am I to understand that any member of the AMA that cannot afford to travel to Muncie or does not have enough vacation time saved up to take the time off to travel to Muncie is just flat out of luck. So by your anolagy, the winner of each event is not neccesarally the best, just the one that has the time and the money to attend the event. The best may be working, as he or she cannot afford the extra week to travel to Muncie for a three day event. Graceland is for Elvis, the AMA is for all it's members, not just the ones that have the time and money. Dave


Disclaimer: These views are mine and NOT RCU's.
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Old 10-27-2007, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?


ORIGINAL: STLPilot

And as far as the NATS goes, they should most certainly keep it at Muncie, every organization needs it's Graceland. Many other organizations I know of depends on the SIG's to produce and host regional events, which we also do in the AMA. But the grand event should always be held at the National flying site.
Ummmmm, Dion.....

Just one thing, Graceland ain't in Muncie Indiana. It is in the Whitehall area of Memphis. You wouldn't go there armed, even if you were dangerous. Muncie is reasonably close to New York, but it's not even remotely close to the population center of the United States. It was a white elephant when they bought it, and it ain't got any better. We do need for the population to be exposed to the Nats, like it was in the 50's and 60's (when the AMA was actually growing).

Bill, AMA 4720
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Old 10-27-2007, 06:48 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

Here are some problems I see with the hobby: $160.00 for a receiver and set of servos. $200.00 for a computer radio (toss out the standard servos because they won't fit). $90.00 for an ESC. $70.00 for a brushless motor. $80.00 for a LiPo battery (better add a couple more, they'll be needed while the other is charging). $180.00 for a charger/balancer. Why does it cost almost $800.00 (a month's income to some people, believe it or not!) just to make a $90.00 ARF operational? What happened to the complete setups that Cox used to make for $150.00, complete with the engine, radio, and starter kit, with nothing left to purchase except maybe a quart of fuel after the first 10 flights? As John Casey and KidEpoxy pointed out: The hobby is going to those who are "deemed worthy of it". Soon enough, the aristocrats will be the only people flying while everybody else stays on the OTHER side of the fence.

NorfolkSouthern
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Old 10-27-2007, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

I'm just saying the National flying site is there for a reason and it should be used to it's maximum potential. I don't here anyone complaining about where Joe Nall is located, but I guess they can't do anything about that.

And as far as it's proximity to NYC, NYer's don't drive more then 25 miles at a time. We fly or take trains wherever we have to go beyond that. The price of airfare these days is as low as it was in the 1960's (when the AMA was actually growing). And thanks to the Internet you can share the expenses of having your airplanes shipped with your friends regionally.

Honestly I'm really not for or against the NATS at Muncie. But what I am for is that more people get to Muncie so they can appreciate what the AMA tries to achieve year after year. You can pretty much tell by the certain people that post on this forum who has been to the National flying site and who hasn't, they stick out like a sore thumb. Not their fault, maybe they can't afford it, they are instead just clueless to the AMA's mission.

The more people that appreciate the AMA, the more we will have a residual effect on new members then any media or gov't agency can provide for us. I mean how do you think 6 times as many EAA members, 800,000 total, make it to Oshkosh every year with hardly any outside advertising? The reason, the members appreciate what the EAA does and provides for it's members and they spread the word. You don't see a whole lot of that in this aviation based membership org. All you ever here is AMA do for me and then when they do they are controlling a__wads.

Desperately needed? Members attitudes changed and help give the AMA positive exposure. This is not aimed at anyone in particular, especially you David and Stick. They know who they are.
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Old 10-27-2007, 10:23 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

NOT in reply to STL The RCU default just keeps thinking in error! Must be AMA EC controlled.

In reality, for all you guys that want the NATS to move around the country: WOW, I just really know that you are going to assist with both labor and $$$$$$ to assist in those logistics. SURE YOU ARE!

How many of you compete in events that are held at the NATs? Do you think any modeler other than hard-core competitors really give a shot about the typical NATs event? How many of you ever watch Pattern flying. Wow, two flights and its NAP time. Would you understand the objective of a Free Flight event? Do you think anyone outside the FF community would do so? Would you consider an Outdoor hand-Launch Glider a work of pure art or just a kid's toy? How much do you think you would enjoy watching CL Combat, carrier, stunt, scale racing, etc.? Maybe 2 minutes or such? Same goes for John Q. Public. The NATs is NOT a show.

The NATs is pure competition and as such its beauty lies within the eyes of the beholders, the contestants. It needs to be conducted where the artists can properly paint their picture under the watchful eye of true appreciators, those that volunteer their time, their $$$ and their labor to GO TO MUNCIE to make themselves available administrators for the love of sport.


Modeling is cheaper today than anyone could ever imagine just 15 years ago. What is not inexpensive is the modeler's "WANTS". You want more and more and have to have the latest of every fad. I have about a 100 kits, all because I "WANTED" them, not because i will live long enough to build them. I buy things I like, and might "need" sometime in the future, same as you, NorfolkSouthern and not because what I already have cannot be used instead. We all do to some extent.

I went to a "Fly-In" today. I took 5 airplanes and flew 4 one time each and talked and talked and had a lot of fun. "Lil Tony" never got up. Each of my Club 40 Racers got a turn. My gas-burning old World Engines Robin 80 had a good workout. Likewise my 3 channel 96" Guff, old timer -- rendition of the original RC model -- with its old Como 61 brought out considerable interest because so few had any clue as to what it was and what it stood for other than Big, Red, and Ugly! How many of you folks would show up at some place around many strangers and drag out such models??? Hey I was flying all 72mhz. The 2.4 GHz stayed at home. [X(] Nope, you have to have those new shinny ARFs, and things of the latest fad. That is where the costs really happen.

Now what AMA needs is a learned membership, a membership that will not tolerate the status quo and a membership that will demand -- by looking into the mirror and stating -- "YOU, shaving buddy, will be certain that NO AMA Officer from my AMA District will ever again run UNOPPOSED!" In other words, YOU will stand up and do something about the complacency that you allow to continue.

Yes, IMO AMA does drastically need something. AMA needs a pro-active membership that can see beyond arm's length and will stand up and say, "I can do better than you, Mr. DVP, EVP, etc, in running this organization and By Golly, I will show you so."

Now, how many of you can look in the mirror and say, "Yep, shaving buddy, you and I can DO this so let the games began, NOW!"

I'll be watching next year. [sm=49_49.gif]


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Old 10-27-2007, 10:55 PM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

You guys need to get a hobby.
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Old 10-28-2007, 05:16 AM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

What the AMA desperately needs is ten times more members.

CCR
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Old 10-28-2007, 06:21 AM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?


ORIGINAL: fliers1

What the AMA desperately needs is ten times more members.

CCR
And the best way to accomplish those numbers is to have more exposure to the hobby. And you ain't gonna get that exposure in Muncie Indiana.

Dion,
The Joe Nall is a private event. Pat Hartness started it, and holds it on his private property. That is his decision. Top Gun is the proprietary name of Frank Tiano's private event. It is held in Lakeland florida. That is his decision. The Nats is every AMA member's event. It should be the decision of the membership, as to where it will be held. Look at where the center of the population of the U.S. is located. It sure ain't close to Muncie, or New York City either. Might be here in Florida, since that seems to be where all the New Yorkers live now. How much would you charge me to come and take them all back with you?

Bill, AMA 4720
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Old 10-28-2007, 07:33 AM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

Actually Stick the mean center for US population is a few miles west of St. Louis, MO and anyone willing to drive to St. Louis is certainly willing enough to drive a few more hours to Muncie. But what's the difference? RC is a hobby and like every other hobby it costs money to play. And then when you want to be competitive in your hobbies it costs even more money, a lot more money, time and dedication. There are enough regional events around the country to satisfy any aeromodeler, but if he or she wants to compete for the grand title, then they just need to work their time and finances to make it happen.

But I'm with Hoss on this one. Muncie is there for a reason, a lot of reasons and more people need to appreciate it.

Oh I do realize that us NY'ers and the rest of the NE'ers are taking over FL, I'm one of them. Only I bought my house down there well before most started sucking up all the beachfront property and driving the Florida natives to the center of the state. I'll be back down there in heavens waiting room in about 20 years. This way I can leave my children my money tax free when I die too!!!
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Old 10-28-2007, 07:51 AM
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Default RE: What changes at the AMA are DESPERATELY needed?

ORIGINAL: Hossfly

In reality, for all you guys that want the NATS to move around the country: WOW, I just really know that you are going to assist with both labor and $$$$$$ to assist in those logistics. SURE YOU ARE!

How many of you compete in events that are held at the NATs? Do you think any modeler other than hard-core competitors really give a shot about the typical NATs event? How many of you ever watch Pattern flying. Wow, two flights and its NAP time. Would you understand the objective of a Free Flight event? Do you think anyone outside the FF community would do so? Would you consider an Outdoor hand-Launch Glider a work of pure art or just a kid's toy? How much do you think you would enjoy watching CL Combat, carrier, stunt, scale racing, etc.? Maybe 2 minutes or such? Same goes for John Q. Public. The NATs is NOT a show.

The NATs is pure competition and as such its beauty lies within the eyes of the beholders, the contestants. It needs to be conducted where the artists can properly paint their picture under the watchful eye of true appreciators, those that volunteer their time, their $$$ and their labor to GO TO MUNCIE to make themselves available administrators for the love of sport.
Horrace,

I seem to remember when the Nats were held at the various Naval Air Stations around the country, and this travelling contest was accomplished with the dues at ten bucks. I think that the Navy or the Air Force would be happy to assist with the flying sites for the Nats. It was considered prestigeous for a base to score the Nats, way back when...

As to being willing to provide assistance with funding, and labor, you can count on it. I would rather donate the money that travel would cost to go to Muncie, to the AMA and have the Nats travel around the country, than have to travel there. As to the labor, I would be happy to donate my time to the endeavor.

I still enjoy C/L combat, and Stunt. Speed is not something that I would want to do any longer (my Stanzell monoline is stored along with my Hell-Razor "C" class. and I really don't want to have to build another Rat Trap plus at my age, I get dizzy easily). I do understand the concept of free flight (I finally found my Tatone Tick-Off, the other week). I never did participate in HLG, so it's not my cup of tea. I didn't rebuild my Sterling Corsair after I got a low approach and nailed the stern of the Carrier, but I did participate.

I just think that the AMA would get a big shot in the arm if more people could be exposed to it, via the Nats. I still remember meeting George Aldrich in Dallas, as a kid. Those are memories that linger, and make this hobby worthwihle.

Bill, AMA 4720
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