2walla

My Feedback: (10)

Blazing Wings, I do applaud your efforts to deliver a quality product. Hopefully I will see one of your planes in person so I can make a decision. I would still suggest that you get some of the well respected local flyers to have a look. I would like a flight report on that big pitts from Bob Sawyer...

Blazing Wings

Thanks for the positive feedback. I will post videos and pictures of the Pitts tested by our retailers in a few months. I think it might be better to receive comments from others then me, to give you a diffrent point of view as only from ourselves. Also bookmark our website to check out new items, or visit our customers page, where pictures from our customers and building threads will be displayed.

We are offering now big discounts if ordering from the website. Also there will be changes in pricing and planes for 2009.

Thanks,
Blazing Wings

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

You can talk all you want, but you can't possibly expect me or others to believe that the SAME plane with MORE features, pre-glued hinges and a full color manual that costs 50 dollars less is a lesser value! Everything about the Aeroworks websites says that they fully support their products, your website says very little at all. Besides, their price was roughly in line with EVERYBODY ELSE who carries that model, YOURS was much higher.

You have less to offer. You don't have a comprehensive website that is easy to navigate and easy to find policies. You're claiming "Quality" but I've seen nothing better, in fact I've seen "Less".

You have a ways to go. You need to lower your prices. You need to offer what your competitors offer. They offer "Quality" as well with the SAME basic products but they offer more features. YOUR quality and THEIR quality are the SAME, paying more or less makes no difference, no matter what you say. You've said nothing that convinces me that you have anything worth paying more for. And I could drive 15 minutes to your place and pick items up and I'm still saying that. Like I said, you have a ways to go to be competitive in this market. I know guys who will go elsewhere for 3 or 5 bucks. Most of us, in fact. These are our hard-earned dollars and most of us have wives we are accountable to. Just for giggles, I had mine shop yours and Aeroworks and tell me what she thought. She asked a bunch of questions (and noticed the same differences that I had), and finally said; "So you get to pay 50 bucks more to NOT have your hinges glued and to NOT have the full color manual? And don't you hate gluing hinges in?"

Now, Aeroworks PAYS to have the extra features included. Aeroworks PAYS to have a good, comprehensive website. They clearly print their policies and what they do to back up their stuff. By the way, I haven't bought from either of you...yet.

So, talk all you want, you offer less features and your prices are out of line. Don't get me wrong, I think you're a very nice guy. You need to buy them at a better price or do whatever you need to do to be competitive. Because if THEY can do it, then YOU should be able to do it. Welcome to the world market, my friend.

Jim

Blazing Wings

Who specified this issue on the YAK? I did not only talk about the YAK 54 85" of Aeroworks. I do not care about their products either, and to what price they sell. Everyone should do their own business for better or worse.

I only can say that we have our retailers and distributors who are selling our stuff, and no one complained about pricing or our website.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

I did.

Jim

T3beatz

My Feedback: (4)

WoW, I'm late to this thread but just would like to add a little....
Blazing wings are way overpriced on some items!!!
I'm just a regular guy just like every one else... I would rather buy the less expensive, same thing!!

Check out the composit plane section!....

http://www.blazingwings.com/index1.html

same planes in china...

http://rcchina.com.cn/oscn/index.php?cPath=1_26

even with shipping they still wont be what blazing wings charges!!!

I bet some of these planes look familiar to you guys...

Check out the edge!! $253.00... add the shipping and still you save over 300.00 bucks!!WOW!!
http://www.sunnyhobby.com/index.php?...dwt&gcat=2&p=1

I think peakmodel has the shipping included on everything...
http://www.peakmodel.com/
http://www.cbhobby.com/

I don't care if you guys at blazing wings never lower your prices.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Sorry, I'm going to have to count that last post as a complaint about your prices, Andre. In fact, a pretty specific, well-documented complaint backed up by lots of info and references.

Stubborn is one thing you can't do in business. The wishful-thinking approach will never work, not ever, no matter what your argument is. Like the guy said, he doesn't care if you never lower your prices, and I get the feeling he's sincere about it. Like me and most everybody else, he can pop a few search words into his computer and have all your competition right at his fingertips to compare.

Would I like to buy, say for example a Yak 54 from you? You are about 15 minutes from me, Andre, of COURSE I would. But not when I can buy it cheaper INCLUDING SHIPPING AND LOTS OF EXTRAS from the other guys.

You're a stubborn guy, Andre, and it shows. The world goes right by you to the other distributors' doors because you don't offer a competitive deal. But here's where I'll step away from this thread. It will serve no purpose and it's obvious that you don't really want to grow your business. I know if you had business coming in and happy customers that they'd be popping into this thread and letting us know about it long before this. I can't even imagine what your thoughts must be, I doubt I would even find them comprehensible. Business is simple, you offer good products at competitive prices, and if your advertising is up to snuff then they'll buy from you. Your products are okay, your competitors offer more on each item. Your prices are WAY high. Your advertising and website are at best supremely lacking. In fact, although I once offered to make you a website that would sell your product, I since realized that never would have happened once I compared your prices and found how intractable you are. I'll say it again. You can't make ANYTHING happen in business using wishful thinking.

Later.

Jim

Jim

aussiesteve

The Links posted aren't all of the same planes.
Unfortunately for Blazing Wings - the first link posted is of exactly the same planes. I am fairly sure that the link is to a business run by the manufacturer of the planes. (Who sells them to just about anyone - including resellers at the same prices).

The second link is to a company that sells planes from a manufacturer that specialises in using photos of other companys products in their advertising. I can assure you that the Yak that they actually sell is not even remotely like the the one in the Aeroworks photo that they use in their advertising. (Don't ask me how I know - it is a painful lesson but one learnt well). In fact that particular manufacturer had a plane with the name "U-Can_Doo" that looked a lot like its namesake. They changed the name this year but their picture still shows the UCD name.

Don't believe everything you see in advertisements - I have a bunch of pamphlets from the Beijing Expo this year - It is amazing how many of them have exactly the same photos in them. See if you recognise any of the planes below.

[link]http://www.flight-model.com/product/eproduct_list.asp?catalogid=0000p[/link]

[link]http://www.flight-model.com/product/eproduct_detail.asp?catalogid=106&productid=106[/link]

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

I agree with the last post , our company import millions of $$$$ in candy from overseas .
So in my spare time I look for RC planes for the fun side of my day .
I have found so many companys that use the CMPChina Model products pictures as there own .
WIllshobby used Top Flight pictures and Hanger 9 in there on line ad on there own home website in China .
Flymodels was one of the only companies that I knew that actually made a CMP knockoff for less money but the quality also lacked .
YOu have to really do your research to know who you are buying from if you buy direct from China . I have had great luck on ebay with direct from China RC planes , but that is after months of emails and getting them to send me the actual pics of the plane .
I recently purchased a very unique Fw190 , spilt flaps ect , much better then CMP and Flymodels discontinued version for $200 . Not a steal by amy means but the quality was better then CMP .
You also have to know the differance between factory and on line showrooms , if you visit an online show room you dont know if that is teh factory or the distributor .
Lastly , I think Blazeing wings has been beaten up enought including by me , I told him he was high on prices and he gave us his reasons why , all we have to is buy someplace else or shut up and buy from the guy , but we need to leave him alone .
If you follow the hobby industry enought you will know that in the past 5 years , distributors are keeping the allownaces that use to go to the shop .
As a result the shops has less choice to order from Distributors because there cost are higher and the prices look at out wack from what we can buy direct .
Example -in the past I could support my local hobby shop and buy a plane from him thru -global distribution owned by HobbyPeople .
Now if I buy a Black Horse P40 thru my shop its $240 vs shipped direct from Global to me for $199 !!!!!
How is the guys supposed to stay in business ???
I would buy from my local guy , I dont want him to go away , but I cant afford an extra $40 , almost 25% of the total selling cost .

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Like you said. Make that choice, pay up....or leave him alone. I made my choice and until what I see there changes, I'll continue to leave him alone.

Computers made the world market what it is. Nothing will change that.

Jim

chuck993

Give me a break. If you can't afford $40, you can't afford this hobby...

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Chuck , dont critisize me when you dont know me , I will give you my hobby shops name and owner in a Pm and you can ask him if I still tried , he said he could not see doing that to me .
Simply stated "he said Lou order it direct " I have to charge you $40 more "

Normally I would just eat it , but I just spent $500 on an OS Max 200 4 stroke from him for a KMP corsair that I could clearly get from Tower for less with deals and rebates , so please give me a break , I not only support this guy but I keep receipts from every shop I visit when i travel and trust me I know mail order is cheaper but I know we need our shops so I typically will buy all my accessories engines , radios ect from the shop .
I travel to virtually every state in the union and yes even Norfolk and the great shop that there is supported by me the name escape me but its a womens name and the shop sits off an access road 10 miniutes from the corportate office of Dollar TRee

T3beatz

My Feedback: (4)

Hey Steve, Hows it going? I know by the looks of that plane that its not the one, its advertised as 85" but the one she is holding is only about 70-73" or so, I said the same thing when I first saw it[sm=confused_smile.gif]... I was just comparing some of the planes from the sites to the ones that Blazing wings sells. Like the Wild Hare line...
Oh, and the U-Can-Do also... Look at the covering! LOL!! its a lot more dull than the original one, after you add shipping I would just get the real U-Can-Do.
on another note...
Most people can say that there is a little thing called Supply and demand, The more planes you want to sell you have to stay competitive... If 2 guys sold the same plane they get them from china for 150.00 a piece. After mark ups one guy A sells them for 350.00 + shipping ... and the other guy B sells them for 500.00 + shipping ( same plane stock hardware) While guy B can sell less planes and make more money, Eventually everyone will find out about Guy A and start going to him, If he can keep the planes in stock, he will undoubtedly make more money than guy B in the long run... Even if Guy A marks his prices up 50.00 dollars more because of demand he still will sell more.

East RC

I believe QQ's Aircraft Company (Quique Somenizini) and Bob Trueworthy hold the license to reproduce the Pitts models you are reproducing. Are you involved with either? I could be way off track here, but in the best interest of the both of these Gentlemen, I believe it is a legitimate question.

Chris

aussiesteve

I know it ain't my business but since when did the guys you mentioned have the licence for the S12?

I know that one claims to be the only authorised model of the Kimball enterprises plane (the Python that is a derivative of the S12) but if the modelling world needs a licence to produce a model of a well known and well accepted full sized plane, then I think most manufacturers had better close their doors immediately. I wonder how many Yaks, Sukhois, Extras, Edges, Spitfires, Mustangs, Cessnas, P47's etc etc (I think you get the drift) are licensed versions.

Now using a registered Logo that has an associated product name on the scheme - well that is a different matter altogether (For example the Red Bull Logo that needs to be officially authorised - at a fee).

East RC

Jim Kimball.....the guy who owns the rights on the full scale Pitts S-12. He said it..not me.


I understand your argument. From the perspective of a manufacturer, it isn't as easy to make money reproducing something when you have to play fair, that's why most do not. Unfortunately, it really makes it difficult for those who do play by the rules and try to maintain integrity. The right to the reproduction of models of warbirds has already been drug out through congress and is fair game for anyone, at least in the USA...for now.

Why is the Pitt's or Jim Kimball logos any different from the Red Bull logo? They are both products owned by corporations, are they not?

aussiesteve

Ok -you edited and added after I posted - You originally said Kimball was the designer of the S12 - that was not quite correct.

In fact the S12 was the last of the designs completed and flown by Curtis Pitts.

Kimball enterprises is now the manufacturer and distributor of the Model 12 Kit (With no doubt an excellent support service).


Like nearly all of the shops in the world, your own shop would need to remove a large proportion of it's products from the shelf if manufacturers got so pedantic (Including the RCLeague ones - you might understand the importance of that comment). I see Pitts specials (Aviat industries) Sukhois, Lancair, Long EZ, Cessna etc all on the first couple of pages.

I wonder - what did you gain by your comment.

Again - it is none of my business - just that Blazing Wings has decided to run a business as he sees fit,pricing the way he sees fit. If people deide to buy or not to buy - that is up to them. This site is for communication - for sure but to attack his products (I can assure you he isn't the manufacturer - I personally know the 2 main manufacturers of most of his products). Over whether or not he is selling "Licences copies" - is a bit 2 faced in my opinion. - the old "People in glass houses" Syndrome.

East RC

"I see", said the blind man. There are few....and very few airplanes that hold a licensing agreement with anyone or have such practices in place. My point is that when the practices ARE in place and licenses are well known and established, it would be courteous, but not necessary, for everyone to play by the book. That clearly is not going to happen..never has, never will.

If we have anything in our shop that is in violation of another manufacturers rights and licensing of producing the airplane, we will remove it. You just show me which ones and I'll get the truck warmed up.

Attack? Come on, man. Are you serious? 2-faced? How many Pitts S-12's or Red Bull Sodas have you seen us advertise?

I don't think the discussion between the two of us can really go anywhere, as you're impartiality may prove to be an obstacle.

About the "Syndrome"...practice what you preach, bud. I have nothing to gain, not interested in gaining anything. I am standing up for two guys who put a LOT of work into the development of the airframe, two guys who have something to lose, two guys that I have a tremendous amount of respect for. If you happen to not feel the same, I apologize.

aussiesteve

Yep - even less have sole agreements and even less have agreements covering all derivatives. Last time I checked, QQ has an agreement for the Python - that is a derivative of the Model 12 - it is not the S12.


I remember when the owners of the SU brand wanted licence fees. Some manufacturers paid them. When the requirement got dropped because it was unworkable, those manufacturers never got their money back (including me). I also know the manufacturer of the SU you list - I am about 99.9999% certain they didn't pay a license fee. None of the manufacturers paid for Sole rights - probably the same as the QQ Python. Is the radiator warm yet or isn't that the same thing? I haven't bothered about checking the other listings - I can't be bothered but there are probably some others.

Honestly? - Before today, I have never noticed you advertise anything but I have seen plenty of that particular soda in other shops drink fridges and more than one S12 on a shelf. Maybe you should help QQ and co by advertising or reselling thier planes - maybe that doesn't fit with your business plan - I don't really care. Same as I don't care how Blazing wings runs his business - as long as it is legal and pays its taxes. I am just sticking up for a small businessman here who runs his business they way he sees fit. A businessman who I know nothing about but I see him being attacked about running his business the way he sees fit to run it.

My impartiality? - I said I know them, I never said I have any personal or business relationship with them. Believe it or not - the industry over here is quite small, We get to meet most of the major players. In fact - I don't buy any products from either company.

FWIW - I produce products with a licensed version of the Red Bull color Scheme - I should be the one whinging about that being used on the 150cc SU. I don't because I don't give a care about it. I can display and sell my products at official Red Bull sponsored events - They can't. As the scheme becomes a popular choice - I can increase my legitimate sales.

I respect world champions of anything, I also respect business people. that is why I posted here in the first place. I also have nothing to gain. Do you think that the manufacturer of the S12 didn't also put in a lot of work? FWIW - that particular Pitts has been on the market for longer than I have been aware of the QQ one. It has been available for at least 3 years that I am aware of.

Not wishing to hijack this thread any further (It is after all about a completely different supplier to both of us), I won't bother posting again. Good luck for your future.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

I've seen Boeing and others try this crap. People who tried to comply soon went out of business, there isn't enough margin in this industry to support the extra expense. I don't care who thinks what is right, they're MODELS....which means they're MODELED generally after an original plane. That's like getting a haircut like a movie star.

The SMART retailers simply changed one or two details.... enough so that it didn't look exactly the same or so that the names weren't in the decals, etc. You can always buy the decal sheet or have the vinyls made up for it. These are models and the full-scale companies should be THANKING the model industry for the recognition rather than trying to charge an industry that simply cannot afford to pay to emulate any full-scale that plane afficionados admire. In the end these are our PLAYTHINGS.

I'm not trolling here and I won't respond to the flamers, Full-scale companies that try to charge the modeling industry for licensing SUCK. Their planes should fade into oblivion in response to their unbelievable greed and unrealistic business practices if there is anything like Karma that really exists out there. You won't change my mind, this is my opinion and in this case I've thought about it for years.

So....screw anybody trying to charge for a license for a PITTS. What a load of horsecrap.

Have a lovely day!

Jim

East RC

I don't think you fully understand what the deal is here. Kimball did not charge QQ for a license. He gave the license to him. Probably for all of the work QQ put into helping the Kimballs throughout development of the full scale. There are lots of folks who would likely be granted a license for nothing if they would ask, but they do not. I'm not talking about R/C planes..I'm talking about everything that is copied. I guess I am old fashioned and am a person of principle. I don't see this scenario any different than having to license a bands song to use it in a movie, commercial, etc..Property is property and if someone else is making money off of your work, you should at least get credit for it. That's just me. Put one of the Rolling Stones songs in a movie and leave their name out of the credits and see what happens.

And Aussie Steve....I know you meant to offend me with your "I've never seen you guys advertise" comment. It didn't. I would completely understand if you had not heard of us. No malice intended, but you are an Australian whom apparently lives in China. We advertise in American R/C magazines and several other R/C forums...we use to advertise here at RCU...if any of that makes you feel any better. And the SU that we list...has been discontinued by us for at least 6 months. Regardless, that airplane has only been available for just over a year. How long ago was it when Su were seeking licensing?

Legal? Taxes? The owners of Blazing Wings may very well be legitimate operators of their business, however You and I both know of others who snake around the system.

This is kind of like the Metallica vs. Napster battle.

Feel free to PM me

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Snakle around the system? PAAALEEEEASE. This is at best a cottage industry. Nobody making any real money here, with the exceptions of Horizon, Great Planes and Tower. Everybody else, almost without exception, typically just scrapes by. I'm glad you're happy with your hall-guard monitor mentality, but you might just as well wet your pants in a dark suit. It may give you a warm feeling but nobody else notices.

A dozen models here, a couple of hundred there, that's NOTHING. It gives the full-scale guys advertising so their birds aren't forgotten in the sands of time. And the fools want to be PAID for it, or want to think it's important enough that they should provide LICENSING for it.

PAAALEEEEASE.

My position is exactly the same as it was in the first post about this.

Jim