old timers look here must be 50+ years only
08-18-2016, 07:39 AM
#2951
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Measnes, La Creuse, France.
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[QUOTE=GallopingGhostler;12248201]Days of WW1 were interesting to say nonetheless. Circumstantial evidence points to the greater possibility that infantry ground fire downed the Hun instead of the British pilot who was credited with the kill.
Er... actually, Roy Brown was a Canadian.
He never claimed MvR. In the same way, Lothar von Richtofen never claimed to have shot down Albert Ball, but he was credited with the kill by the German authorities anyway.
Er... actually, Roy Brown was a Canadian.
He never claimed MvR. In the same way, Lothar von Richtofen never claimed to have shot down Albert Ball, but he was credited with the kill by the German authorities anyway.
08-18-2016, 08:12 AM
#2952
Er... actually, Roy Brown was a Canadian. He never claimed MvR. In the same way, Lothar von Richtofen never claimed to have shot down Albert Ball, but he was credited with the kill by the German authorities anyway.
08-18-2016, 11:39 AM
#2954
Thread Starter
Like I said ww1 planes don't flip my skirt up but I have built and flown a Ziroli Morane saulnier on three channels and a O.S. 40. there wasn't much the bird could not do, It amazed many people and really put big smiles on my face. I still have it after several rebuilds. I have the plans for the Ziroli Eindecker but the heathkit gear was too big so no Eindecker.
I got more involved with ww1 birds when my son gave me the red Baron ww1 flight simulater, my favorite bird? ....Spad 13 with unlimited fuel and bullets. many a day disappeared with me staring at my monitor and shooting up the enemy. The targets were numerous, balloons, ground troops and buildings, be2's, triplanes, just about anything you could imagine.
As soon as I fire up my old windows based computer again I will revisit those days of "yesteryear."
now back to the kobras.
I got more involved with ww1 birds when my son gave me the red Baron ww1 flight simulater, my favorite bird? ....Spad 13 with unlimited fuel and bullets. many a day disappeared with me staring at my monitor and shooting up the enemy. The targets were numerous, balloons, ground troops and buildings, be2's, triplanes, just about anything you could imagine.
As soon as I fire up my old windows based computer again I will revisit those days of "yesteryear."
now back to the kobras.
Last edited by donnyman; 08-18-2016 at 11:46 AM.
08-18-2016, 12:49 PM
#2955
Join Date: Apr 2008
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My namesake's aircraft crashed between the lines in April 1917 and was fired upon by the artillery of both sides. His body was never recovered neither was that of his observer, Lt Rathbone, a Canadian.
08-18-2016, 09:09 PM
#2957
Join Date: Apr 2008
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If anyone wants to build a BE2e like mine, cut parts are available from Flying Scale Models. http://flyingscalemodels.com/store/p...actory-b-e-2e/.
Doubtless an American kit cutter could do the job too, probably cheaper as well when you consider the cost of postage.
Doubtless an American kit cutter could do the job too, probably cheaper as well when you consider the cost of postage.
08-19-2016, 12:58 AM
#2958
If anyone wants to build a BE2e like mine, cut parts are available from Flying Scale Models. http://flyingscalemodels.com/store/p...actory-b-e-2e/. Doubtless an American kit cutter could do the job too, probably cheaper as well when you consider the cost of postage.
Last edited by GallopingGhostler; 08-19-2016 at 01:03 AM.
08-19-2016, 01:33 AM
#2959
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Measnes, La Creuse, France.
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GG of course you shouldn't believe everything you see in the movies! Classic example, Russian soldiers being sent into action at Stalingrad without rifles in "Enemy At The Gates," when actually the Russian Army was very well equipped once it had recovered from the initial invasion.
In WW1 all officers were expected to carry pistols. I believe that British officers had to buy theirs but they were given an allowance to do so. Most pilots were officers and some carried pistols with them on operations precisely to make a quick end of things if the aircraft caught fire at height. Mannock apparently kept his in his boot, which must have been a bit uncomfortable, but the majority didn't and it certainly wasn't compulsory!
My namesake had served in the trenches for nearly a year before applying for officer and pilot training. Initially he was posted to 48 Sqdn which was the first squadron to fly the Bristol Fighter. Had he remained with that unit he might have survived the war. As it was he was transferred to 12 Sqdn (BE2s) on 24th December 1916 and was quite an experienced pilot by the time of his death at the end of April 1917. Statistically, if you survived the first three months, you stood a better chance of surviving the war, but of course he was up against the best fighter pilot of the war in a very inferior aircraft. Incidentally, of all of MvR's victims, he was the best educated. He held a Master's Degree in Mathematics from the University of Cardiff and was working as a maths teacher in the Caribbean prior to the war. Terrible waste. Unlike many British pilots he did not come from a privileged background. His father was variously described as a coal miner, a coal tippler and an engineer.
If these men were "iron men with wooden wings," what were their comrades in the trenches?
In WW1 all officers were expected to carry pistols. I believe that British officers had to buy theirs but they were given an allowance to do so. Most pilots were officers and some carried pistols with them on operations precisely to make a quick end of things if the aircraft caught fire at height. Mannock apparently kept his in his boot, which must have been a bit uncomfortable, but the majority didn't and it certainly wasn't compulsory!
My namesake had served in the trenches for nearly a year before applying for officer and pilot training. Initially he was posted to 48 Sqdn which was the first squadron to fly the Bristol Fighter. Had he remained with that unit he might have survived the war. As it was he was transferred to 12 Sqdn (BE2s) on 24th December 1916 and was quite an experienced pilot by the time of his death at the end of April 1917. Statistically, if you survived the first three months, you stood a better chance of surviving the war, but of course he was up against the best fighter pilot of the war in a very inferior aircraft. Incidentally, of all of MvR's victims, he was the best educated. He held a Master's Degree in Mathematics from the University of Cardiff and was working as a maths teacher in the Caribbean prior to the war. Terrible waste. Unlike many British pilots he did not come from a privileged background. His father was variously described as a coal miner, a coal tippler and an engineer.
If these men were "iron men with wooden wings," what were their comrades in the trenches?
08-19-2016, 02:21 AM
#2960
I think that is where they got the saying, Iron men with wooden wings. History according to Hollywood (which may or may not be true), in one movie, forgot which, the French were issuing each pilot a pistol so they could shoot themselves instead of dying once their plane caught fire.
08-19-2016, 03:55 AM
#2961
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Measnes, La Creuse, France.
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If you think what happened in Fly Boys was an accurate reflection of what happened to American pilots in WW1, then you are very wide of the mark. 
.
1. American pilots were trained in the south of France or in England, not with squadrons on active service immediately behind immediately behind the lines.
2. British and French fighter squadrons never shared the same airfield. It was only the so-called "Independent Air Force," a bomber unit whose function was to bomb targets in Germany which had both British and French squadrons in the same location, these however, operated independently.
3. There were no black pilots in the American air force in the Great War. Eugene Buller was a black American who had been a soldier in the French Foreign Legion. After having been wounded as an infantryman, he was "taken up" by a wealthy Frenchwoman who had given her country house to the French government for use as a military hospital. She discovered Buller among the wounded and supported him in his ambition to be a fighter pilot.
.1. American pilots were trained in the south of France or in England, not with squadrons on active service immediately behind immediately behind the lines.
2. British and French fighter squadrons never shared the same airfield. It was only the so-called "Independent Air Force," a bomber unit whose function was to bomb targets in Germany which had both British and French squadrons in the same location, these however, operated independently.
3. There were no black pilots in the American air force in the Great War. Eugene Buller was a black American who had been a soldier in the French Foreign Legion. After having been wounded as an infantryman, he was "taken up" by a wealthy Frenchwoman who had given her country house to the French government for use as a military hospital. She discovered Buller among the wounded and supported him in his ambition to be a fighter pilot.
08-19-2016, 05:23 AM
#2962
Thanks, Telemaster for clarifying. Yes, Hollywood for the most part is a lot fantasy. Very few movies are true to historical script. Makes for good entertainment, but is furtherest from reality because war is hell.
Anyway, back to model planes ....
Lee Renaud is a genius, looking over the plans of the Gere Sport, is a simple easy to build yet manoeuvrable aircraft. I'll enjoy putting this one together.
http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=5884
Anyway, back to model planes ....
Lee Renaud is a genius, looking over the plans of the Gere Sport, is a simple easy to build yet manoeuvrable aircraft. I'll enjoy putting this one together.
http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=5884
Last edited by GallopingGhostler; 08-19-2016 at 05:49 AM.
08-19-2016, 06:25 AM
#2965
Thread Starter
08-19-2016, 06:35 AM
#2966
Thread Starter
3. There were no black pilots in the American air force in the Great War. Eugene Buller was a black American who had been a soldier in the French Foreign Legion. After having been wounded as an infantryman, he was "taken up" by a wealthy Frenchwoman who had given her country house to the French government for use as a military hospital. She discovered Buller among the wounded and supported him in his ambition to be a fighter pilot.
Didn't the BE2 have a gunner in the back seat?
Last edited by donnyman; 08-19-2016 at 06:38 AM.
08-19-2016, 07:08 AM
#2967
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Donny, the BE2s all had the observer in the front seat where their field of fire of their Lewis guns was limited. This one of is the reasons for the disproportionate number of casualties among the crews of BE2s. The other two principal reasons for the high casualty rate were that the BE2s were powered by an engine which produced only 90 bhp, early versions only 70 bhp, so it was too slow to run away, and secondly, BE2s were designed to be very stable so they couldn't outfly their opponents. By contrast von Richtofen's Albatros had a 160 bhp engine, two forward firing machine guns and was much more manoevrable. The BE2 was replaced by the RE8 which was 20 mph faster with the crew positions reversed. If you were lucky, from 1917 onwards, you could have been sent to a Bristol Fighter, DH4, DH9A or Armstrong Whitworth FK8 squadron, all of which were superior aircraft to the RE8, though the Armstrong Whitworth was slower.
I'll see if I can dig up the information about the French lady, it's not on Wikipedia, but I think I have it printed somewhere.
His surname according to Wikipedia was Bullard not Buller, my mistake.
PS. The Belgian airforce in WW1removed the RAF engines and replaced them with150 bhp Hispano Suiza engines. They also reversed the crew positions making them a much better aircraft.
I'll see if I can dig up the information about the French lady, it's not on Wikipedia, but I think I have it printed somewhere.
His surname according to Wikipedia was Bullard not Buller, my mistake.
PS. The Belgian airforce in WW1removed the RAF engines and replaced them with150 bhp Hispano Suiza engines. They also reversed the crew positions making them a much better aircraft.
Last edited by Telemaster Sales UK; 08-19-2016 at 08:27 AM.
08-19-2016, 07:11 AM
#2968
This is one I have been eyeballing for the longest time.
http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/p...enny/jenny.htm
Lots of work to put together, but the scale is fantastic.
http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/p...enny/jenny.htm
Lots of work to put together, but the scale is fantastic.
08-19-2016, 07:57 AM
#2969
If I had to comment on what movie was the closest I would say it had to be Howard Hughes' 1930 movie Hell's Angels. He hired a lot of veteran pilots flying vintage aircraft. Three pilots died making the movie. I wish I could find a copy of it to borrow Iguess I'll have to hit Ebay or Amazon.
08-19-2016, 08:27 AM
#2970
Thread Starter
If I had to comment on what movie was the closest I would say it had to be Howard Hughes' 1930 movie Hell's Angels. He hired a lot of veteran pilots flying vintage aircraft. Three pilots died making the movie. I wish I could find a copy of it to borrow Iguess I'll have to hit Ebay or Amazon.
The movie is on you tube.
08-19-2016, 08:47 AM
#2971
Last night we were mowing around the house and part of the yard was unusually wet. When I built the house almost 30 years ago I was going to put a hydrant there but just plugged the pipe and I never put in the hydrant. That pipe broke so this morning I had to dig up part of that pipe and plug it . Now I don't have water to the bathroom so I will have to replumb that."geeeer". But the real bummer I have been putting off buying a Saito FA125 reluctant to part with the money. The leek wasted 56000 gallons,on our rural water district that is almost $400 worth. Bummer.
08-19-2016, 10:08 AM
#2972
Thread Starter
Last night we were mowing around the house and part of the yard was unusually wet. When I built the house almost 30 years ago I was going to put a hydrant there but just plugged the pipe and I never put in the hydrant. That pipe broke so this morning I had to dig up part of that pipe and plug it . Now I don't have water to the bathroom so I will have to replumb that."geeeer". But the real bummer I have been putting off buying a Saito FA125 reluctant to part with the money. The leek wasted 56000 gallons,on our rural water district that is almost $400 worth. Bummer.
08-19-2016, 12:34 PM
#2973
Guys, the statement was made, "in one movie, forgot which, the French were issuing each pilot a pistol so they could shoot themselves instead of dying once their plane caught fire." The movie was Flyboys. I made NO STATEMENT CONCERNING THE ACCURACY OF HOLLYWOOD.
Lighten up.
Lighten up.
08-19-2016, 02:29 PM
#2974
Thread Starter
Guys, the statement was made, "in one movie, forgot which, the French were issuing each pilot a pistol so they could shoot themselves instead of dying once their plane caught fire." The movie was Flyboys. I made NO STATEMENT CONCERNING THE ACCURACY OF HOLLYWOOD.
Lighten up.
Lighten up.
I looked up some data on the BE 2, several changes to it turned it into a more formidable target that had a bite of it's own.
Back seat gunner, forward firing machine gun and a much more Powerful engine. (evolution
)
08-19-2016, 02:39 PM
#2975