Georgiadude2012

This is my first build after trainer.... Are these components ie servos and tx/rx going to be ok for this wa bird... I am going to get the dla 35ra engine..Thanks

Hydro Junkie

Radio should be fine IF you don't try to use more channels than the radio can handle
Retract servos should be okay
The Hitec 645MGs have plenty of power for that plane, depending on where you are using them
The S3004s have me concerned, depending how and where you are going to use them

jester_s1

I'd worry more about a guy who just soloed on his trainer going straight to a Spitfire. Are you improving your flying skills with a standard sport plane before moving on to an unforgiving warbird?

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

Yea, I thought it was odd to have a question about the set up on an 80' Spitfire in the BEGINNERS forum. The other piece of equipment he may need is large black trash bag. We'll see....... Georgiadude2012, let us know how this works out.

j.duncker

My Feedback: (2)

Good news Bad news.

Bad news first. Someone progressing to a Spitire from a trainer is likely to need the trash bag on the first flight. They tip stall in certain circumstances. Just like this one.

https://youtu.be/6T9FxE1QVUE Good news. An 80 inch one if it is built light and has the right sort of wing section at the tip SHOULD be a little less likely to tip stall, but the chance will always be there. . I do not know this manufacturer so maybe some with experience can can chime in.

You really do need to get some experience on a low winger tail dragger like this one first. http://www.greatplanes.com/airplanes/gpma1042.html

If you decide to go ahead with the big Spit make sure you pack a big trash bag. You are almost certain to need it.

Georgiadude2012

I fly all the time guys I have been flying for 3 years now with a trainer at my club and without a trainer/solo for the last 7 months..... Just wanted to get a few second opinions other than the club guys on the set up. Calm down!!!!!!

So now please answer the original questions..... Thanks

Georgiadude2012

I fly all the time guys I have been flying for 3 years now with a trainer and buddy cord at my club, and without a trainer/solo for the last 7 months..... Just wanted to get a few second opinions other than the club guys on the set up. Calm down!!!!!!

So now please answer the original questions..... Seems a little redundant to get training on tail draggers/ war bird trainers when I have my trainer beside me with a buddy cord? Maybe in the old days you had to fly every plane known to man before you flew the type of plane that you wanted, but things are a little different now days with technology and real flight sims/ video games etc. Thanks

so now back to the setup... I was told those 3004 servos would be fine? Did they inform me wrong?

Georgiadude2012

ok thanks- but it looks like a tip stall is not pilot error but more of a plane issue which can not be recovered from with out high altitude and can happen to anyone even seasoned pilots?
Not really sure why I should buy and build another plane to learn to fly a warbird when I have an instructor with buddy cord? Thanks

RBACONS

My Feedback: (3)

If your instructor is always going to take off and land for you, then have at it. If not, your instructor on a buddy cord is not going to be a lot of insurance as bad things can happen quickly and nastily with a low wing, high wing loaded plane at low altitude. They don't afford the same reaction and recovery time as a floaty high-wing trainer. Most pilots would choose to progress from a trainer to a more forgiving low wing plane like a 4 Star before tackling a big warbird. However, as Hydro Junkie says, in order to properly answer your question, we need to know where you are planning to use each type of servo.

jester_s1

If you're still thinking about being on the buddy box because you're not 100% on your piloting abilities, you're not ready for this plane.

Not to be mean at all, but this is a classic case of you don't know what you don't know. Tip stalls aren't just a matter of setup, although setup plays a major role. Some planes are just snappy. Spitfires are one of those planes. And yes, tip stalling a snappy plane is a case of pilot error. It's usually caused by pulling too hard on the elevator either in a maneuver or during landing. Your trainer just mushes forward if you get it going too slow on a landing. The worst that can usually happen with it is it goes bouncing down the runway. If you make the same error with a snappy plane, it will roll 90 degrees and head for the ground. The landing technique is different with a snappy plane, and you need to develop your skills for recognizing stalls and recovering from them too. The normal progression is to go from a trainer to a low wing sport plane like a Tiger II or Sig 4 Star. Some of the more docile scale planes like a Ryan STA/PT19 or T-28 are good choices as well. Those planes will get you used to the profile of a low wing plane in the air and let you practice power on landings where you fly the plane to the ground instead of pulling the elevator and waiting for it to settle in. You have a beautiful plane there, my very favorite of the warbirds. If you'll take the time to develop the flying skills for it, you'll have a great time with it. If not, it would be wise to stuff a trash bag into the fuselage somewhere so that it'll be there for you after the first flight.

j.duncker

My Feedback: (2)

OK re servos. Any regular standard servo will do for all flying surfaces and the throttle. Futaba 3004s will do just fine maybe run em on 6 volts.

Flaps Beginners you are a beginner to using flaps, tend to deploy them at speed. Blow back is common. You are likely to have two servos on flaps one in each wing. Uneven blow back will induce a roll. This is very bad news. So the only servos I would definitely need to be hi torque are your flap servos and preferably digital. 100 oz inch would be good.

I have test flown a Michael Bryant ?? long time ago Spitfire anyway it was Zenoa 38 powered. It had Futaba 148s an everything except retracts and flap blow back was an issue.

What are you doing for retracts?

Good web site that I use for servo info http://www.servodatabase.com/

jaka

Hi!
I don't like to be rude in any way but...
As the others have said, Forget about the spitfire untill you have flown some low winged sport planes first. It doesn't matter if you have an instructor at hand the first time you fly the spit; as soon as you egerly fly the spit yourself you will probably crash. How I know ?? Been in this hobby for 40 years competing, constructing and teaching and seen many like you who want to jump over some learning steps.

Georgiadude2012

Jump over learning steps?
Is flying not the same basic concept on any plane? Why should I buy a trainer war bid first if indeed it is more forgiving than the plane I am ultimately trying to fly? That's like buying a smaller car just to teach a kid to drive while you have a SUV sitting in the yard paid for!.

I am sure my instructor will look over the build then solo this bird then put it way up and let me fly. Sure he will explain the difference while I am up high flying on the handle of this plane vs the trainer. Just like he did on my first flight on the trainer....

Why is everyone so negative about new guys overcoming the old school learning curve. Every post has something to do with trash bags? If that was the case everyone would crash on their fist flight no matter if its a trainer or larger airplane. Don't want to wait 40 years to fly the plane I want to fly(is that a sin)?

Is there anyone on this forum who has flown a warbird/ larger plane without buying a trainer plane then purchasing a trainer warbird? Really I was just asking about the servos not opinions on what route I should take on learning. Like I stated I have a instructor and club..... Thank you)

Hydro Junkie

Originally Posted by Georgiadude2012
Jump over learning steps?
Is flying not the same basic concept on any plane? Why should I buy a trainer war bid first if indeed it is more forgiving than the plane I am ultimately trying to fly? That's like buying a smaller car just to teach a kid to drive while you have a SUV sitting in the yard paid for!. Using your example, the SUV normally has more power and mass than a small car. The small car also won't roll over when taking a corner a bit too fast like an SUV can. Last, but not least, the SUV will cost you double, if not triple, what the small car will to replace if the kid does something stupid and wrecks it

I am sure my instructor will look over the build then solo this bird then put it way up and let me fly. Sure he will explain the difference while I am up high flying on the handle of this plane vs the trainer. Just like he did on my first flight on the trainer.... A trainer is designed to be very stable and to basically float with a low top speed and low wing-loading. A warbird is designed to be flown at a much higher speed and has relatively little stability. Knowing when and how to use flaps and retracts is something a trainer doesn't teach and is something that you've not taken into consideration with your choice or radio either. Some of the people in this thread have been flying for decades and have seen planes crash due to the pilot's overconfidence, lack of experience and unfamiliarity with the airplane they WERE flying. They are simply trying to prevent you from joining that club

Why is everyone so negative about new guys overcoming the old school learning curve. Every post has something to do with trash bags? If that was the case everyone would crash on their fist flight no matter if its a trainer or larger airplane. Don't want to wait 40 years to fly the plane I want to fly(is that a sin)? The reason for the trash bag comments is that they all know what the outcome will be if you try to fly the Spitfire, a wrecked plane in one. It's obvious that you have not learned how to be patient and it's going to cost you a bunch of money and an airplane. I never saw anyone say to wait 40 years, don't know where you came up with that one. Everyone, me included, has said to build and learn to fly a low wing sport plane. If you equip it with flaps and retracts, you will be ahead of the game experience wise and will probably be money ahead as well. As far as being a sin to want to fly the Spit, it's not a sin but it is foolish to do so at your level of experience

Is there anyone on this forum who has flown a warbird/ larger plane without buying a trainer plane then purchasing a trainer warbird? Really I was just asking about the servos not opinions on what route I should take on learning. Like I stated I have a instructor and club..... Thank you) Where have you ever seen warbird and trainer used together describing one airplane? I know there was a 40 sized sport Mustang that was marketed as such but it was far from being a trainer. It had so many "bandaids" added to it to make it a borderline trainer that it was nothing more than a joke. You asked about servos and about a radio, questions that someone ready to build and fly your Spitfire would already know the answers to. So, you have an instructor and a club. If the instructor is worth the title, he would tell you what we have, LEAVE THAT KIT IN THE BOX UNTIL YOU'RE ACTUALLY READY TO BUILD AND FLY IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That being said, if you're still so gung ho about building and flying a plane that's over your head, let us know how many solo flights you get in before the plane proves us right

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

Georgiadude2012, Just put the plane together, take it to the field, fly it, and prove us all wrong! It's easy, anyone can do it. Don't forget to have a camera crew there to record the event and please post the results here. That's a challenge from the first guy to suggest here that a large black trash bag MIGHT be needed. And I expect that someone who doesn't need to learn in steps like we mere mortals, to do it SOLO, no instructor, no buddy box, no trainer wheels, no excuses. "Is flying not the same basic concept on any plane?" If you can fly your trainer solo, why not the 80" Spitfire? Do a take off, fly it around the pattern some, and land it, SOLO! That's the challenge, put up or shut up, fly it yourself and post the video here. Show time!

Hydro Junkie

DAMN DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Talk about calling someone out. I'm just glad it was you rather than me to do so

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

Hydro Junkie, He challenges our advice, so I challenged him so show us to be wrong. It's a fun challenge, no bad blood. As you know, the OP asked the same question over in the Warbirds thread and the guys there gave much the same advice. You answered him once there and he just believes he knows better. So I say "talk's over", lets see if he is right and we are wrong, or if we are right and he is wrong. It's only fun model airplane flying, let's do it. If he will accept the challenge to solo this 80" Spitfire I might just drive over to Augusta to witness the event. (I'll bring a large trash bag with me)

Hydro Junkie

I'm not disagreeing, not in the slightest. I've had people do the same thing in my primary hobby, sport and scale hydroplanes. In the end, they ended up eating some serious crow. As I tell people at work, prove me wrong and I learn something, prove me right and you do. Any bets on this one

FireBee

My Feedback: (34)

Georgiadude, It's great to be inspired and the spitfire has that beautiful wing, like nothing else on a fly by or roll.

I have seen and flown the World Models Spit for another gent in our club. It sits lower and has wider gear than a scale spitfire does and at 13 lbs the wing loading is pretty good but it will feel heavier in the air than a trainer and will be faster. I own two of the WM Zeros and fly a Pica spit at 26 lbs, ( very high wing loading) even at 88"Wingspan. The Pica Spit land so easy, the take offs are like a teater-totter due to the scale higher and narrow gear just ahead of the CG.

The WM spit is far easier, has a larger stab/elevator and rudder and is a good flying Warbird.

http://www.theworldmodels.com/para/p...?airplaneid=72

To answer your questions on set up: I would use the Hitech 645 on the elev and ailerons. Most of your flying is on elev and ailerons so use good servos. Use a 645mg if you can for the rudder but not required. It could fly with the standard servos, but as you pull out of a steep dive or loop you want the elevator to hold and not go mushy or you may impact the ground. So a little extra torque with the 645mg is good cheap insurance.

Use the the standard servos for throttle and the flaps would also be ok. As to flaps, Spits have a split flap so as you deploy them it wil normally nose down. ( my zero's ballon up with flaps). We correct with mixing in some up elevator anytime flaps are used, personally my spits have done best with only about 20 degrees for initial 1/2 flap position and then 45 degrees for full flaps. Flaps don't take that much servo or air pressure as you are nose down in approach but there is a certain way to set them up so the mechanical advantage is best and you are not stressing the servo as much. Check with your local Warbird pilots. They will teach you.

Warbirds, especially tail draggers are different to takeoff and land than most planes. So, Get with your local clubs "Warbird guy" and not just an instructor pilot or 3d pilot. Get with someone who flys warbirds: ask him about retracts and flaps. This kit lands fine without flaps but they can help slow it down . On very windy days, 15 iknots wind, no flaps is better. Again ask your club for advise.

Discuss take offs: how best to throttle up, adding right rudder and elevator control as all 3 are needed to get airborne on a tail dragger. Discuss flying to include dual rate settings and exponential settings to allow softer airplane control surface movement versus control stick input. Discuss using rudder thought out the flight and on many maneuvers to include a standard turn and adverse yaw. Discuss throttle management on landing to control decent rate, not elevator. Not hard but you will need to learn that.

CG: critical and must be correct with wheels retracted just like in flight. It is normal to add pounds of lead not ounces to a Warbird. This kit should not take that much, Just make sure the CG is correct. Have a club member help you. Usually I select the middle or forward point of the CG range as my starting point. Then after a few flights I move it to the aft most position.

Find your best Warbird pilot and let him do the maiden flight. All of it and even a second flight.
Carefully watch the plane and have him talk through some maneuvers on the second flight. From that he can then tell you about the planes habits and how to correct for it. Then go the buddy box and get some stick time.

keep dreaming and really there is a lot to learn about flying a Warbird, but the thrill is so worth the time taken to learn and try.

I hope this helps. As many have pointed out there is a big learning curve to each type of flyin and warbirds are no different. Perhaps you are making a very large step in size, speed and power, so again get with a Warbird pilot in your club. Only he can assess if you are ready for that step up as safety is always paramount.

Keep asking lots of questions and perhaps consider a flight simulator too. Most people usually learn in smaller steps but then again The younger generation has eye, hand skills I did not when I started.

Any questions, PM me. Fly Safe.

P.S. My second airplane was a 40 size Jemco AT-6. Not your typical second, low wing trainer in 1982 but man it was cool and mine lasted about 30 flights. See my gallery.

Kim Couturier

My Feedback: (120)

Your kit looks like a world models spitfire. I've had one, and they fly great..very forgiving. I would still fly it with an experienced pilot, but you won't have any issues with this one tip stalling. Just a note...the covering in these sucks! Put clear tape on all the leading edges, and don't get anything on the "painted" camo..lit will come right off! You'll probably need a ton of nose weight...don't be alarmed by that.....

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

Hydro, I think I already placed my bets on this one! I come from a 36 year full scale auto racing background. We sometimes had "lip flappers" too, but as any good racer will tell you "when the green flag drops, the b@!!$&!t stops". He's not going to listen to anyone....so let him go do it his way.

Instructor

My Feedback: (16)

I have found that most people that go from a trainer to a war bird, have a tendency to set the control surface throw way too much. A war bird requires a little more speed to fly than most trainers. Keeping that in mind, set the control surfaces up using the low rate setting to test fly. If the ailerons and elevator are set up using the low rate, then you won't get yourself in trouble by having an over responsive airplane. Also, set the CG up a little more nose heavy than the instructions call for. A nose heavy war bird will not tip stall as fast as one that has the CG set up so it is at the rear of the CG indicated. Also, most war birds require a larger turning radius than most trainers. If your field has a 100' wide runway and you turn your trainer inside this 100', then you need to use more than the 100' to turn your war bird. Landing a war bird takes a little training. If the plane has flaps, hold a little down elevator to maintain a good landing speed. When you are about 6" from the ground, let go of the down elevator and bring the power to idle at the same time. The plane should be trimmed for level flight at altitude with flaps down. Make a wheel landing and when you pull the power off the tail will drop on it's own. If you make a few flybys with the flaps down reducing the power, you will get a feel of the plane when it slows down from the reduced power. Adding power requires you to hold right aileron and slight right rudder. Don't add any up elevator until the plane has gained some speed. Adding up elevator too soon will cause the plane roll over to the left and go in. Follow these instructions and you will enjoy your War Bird.....

Larry /Instructor

Georgiadude2012

Finally.. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. Someone who actually answered my original post. WOW!!! And you didn't wish me a horrible crash landing or ridiculous wager...

Your reply is so very helpful I don't know why guys jump to conclusion that I will be flying this plane tomorrow, heck I haven't even decided on the engine yet.. Maybe months before I even start to build it. Just wanted to build it on my own to learn all the aspects of the hobby that's why I asked for other peoples opinions on setup, servos and engines.

I never once stated I would be doing any flying on my own without an Instructor!!!! Thanks again for your post. I hope I can get your help from time to time on the building process...

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

Georgiadude2012, True, you never said you would be flying this thing solo. It was I, in my "ridiculous wager" (solo challenge) that upped the stakes to that level, based on some of your assertions of not needing any low wing or taildragger experience, the "is flying not the same basic concept on any plane?" statement, and your seaming unwillingness to take well meaning advice from some very knowledgeable flyers. No one "wished a horrible crash landing" on you, although many (myself included) thought it was quite likely to happen, hence the trash bag remarks. All any of us wanted for you was for you to take a little time to gain the background knowledge and skills that it will take to have a good chance of success with the Spitfire. I for one, hate to see anyone wreck an airplane. There is time effort and dollars in any plane and lots of it in a G.S. warbird. Yes, you never asked for a judgment from us on your project, just tech info, but good folks tried to steer you in good direction. If my ridiculous challenge to you, in any way slowed you down to taking a more careful calculated approach to the Spitfire project, then "mission accomplished". I retract my "solo challenge", as it was my way of trying to get you to "cool your jets", and increase your chances for success. Keep flying, keep learning new skills, and if your Spitfire is going to be a long term project, hopefully you will be ready when it is. The best to you!

Georgiadude2012

No problem Larry I was just being sarcastic on the ridiculous wager commit. I know overall you guys will be here for me on this project and seeing you are in Georgia also, I will come fly at your field within the next 12 months with my spitfire!!! Thanks