clc58

Hello,
Thirty years ago, I build a Sig Kadet Mark II but as life got in the way I did not get a radio, so I never got to fly the plane. Well, I am now retired and getting back into the hobby and upon some research it sure has changed as most hobbies seen too as most hobby shops don't sell most RC items anymore as everything is online. I have built some FF planes this winter and purchased a Great Plains PT-Electric with a 40" WS I DO plan on building and flying this plane come spring as there is a RC Club/Field 20 minutes from my home. Just purchased Real Flight from Hobby Towers, should get it sometime next week. Question I have is it best to just go electric or gas as I also purchased Sig's Clipped Wing Cub 56" WS (I always wanted to build and fly this plane) and thinking of turning this plane into electric, if possible, if not gas it is then. Talked to a couple of members of the club I mentioned and along with member dues they require I join the AMA and I get that as well as any model over 250 grams needs to be registered like drones are come April. Goal is to build, fly and have fun and even scratch built a plane as well, (always wanted to do this as well) if that is still done these days. Any insight and advice would be most welcomed.
Respectfully,
clc58

init4fun

"I DO plan on building and flying this plane come spring as there is a RC Club/Field 20 minutes from my home.

Hi clc58,

Since your brand new to this, and plan to be involved with a club, before you buy anything else you'd be best served to get with the club and find out what the club's instructor prefers to train student pilots on.

PS, on a 56" wing plane your likely looking at "electric VS glow" VS "electric VS gas", and in my opinion electric would be the better choice to start out with. Learn the nuances of RC flight first, and then get into glow or gas as your skills progress

clc58

Thanks for the advice.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Just to clarify a couple of things. We have had to register with the FAA for a while now. As a recreational R/C pilot you are required to register yourself not your models. You will receive an ID number that should be placed on each model. You should also take the TRUST test. Some clubs require these and will verify as a condition of membership, some don’t.

clc58

TRUST test?

init4fun

https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational...e_test_updates


When you get with the club, as suggested in post #2, the instructor will take you through the FAA requirements, as well as the club's requirements for membership.
This pretty much universally includes having an AMA membership as a prerequisite to joining the club, since insurance comes with an AMA membership.

PS, you will note that the FAA document uses the words "UAS" and "Drone" to describe the same thing, an "Unmanned Aerial System". This UAS description includes everything from multirotor aircraft (usually called a "drone" by the general public) to the "traditional" RC model planes you want to fly, so yes, you are bound by law to adhere to the FAA regulations spelled out on the FAA's website.

LLRCFlyer

Since your are "getting back into the hobby" without ever having become proficient at flying, you are indeed starting from scratch and need to have a very good trainer aircraft on a buddy box system and a good instructor. You were talking about hundreds of dollars in equipment and many hours of building time for the aircraft and systems you described in your initial post. That is all well and good for future enjoyment, but for right now, here is a tip to save you considerable time, money and frustration. I have been instructing RC students for nearly 50 years now and have used about every type of trainer and radio system available. I highly suggest you buy a Hobby Zone Aeroscout S2 (1.1 meter wingspan) Ready To Fly (RTF) foam trainer which is available from Horizon Hobby or Hobbytown for $199.99. This comes with all electronics and the motor installed and includes a Spektrum DXS 7 channel entry level transmitter (which retails for $114 separately). Assuming your club instructor has a Spektrum transmitter with wireless trainer capability, the DXS (student) transmitter can be paired to the instructor's master transmitter to establish a buddy box training system. The instructor's transmitter is then bound to your plane for training. When you are proficient enough to fly solo, then your DXS transmitter can be bound (linked) back to the plane in a binding process that takes less than a minute to do. The only additional items needed are a LiPo battery charger (which you will need anyway) and a 2200 mah 3S LiPo battery with an EC3 type connector plug. The receiver has a SAFE flight mode that limits the maximum bank and pitch angles the plane can achieve and also has a panic button on the transmitter that will return the airplane to level flight if you get it into some unusual attitude. When the SAFE mode switch is turned off, the airplane is fully able to fly the entire novice aerobatic pattern routine. I have no connection what-so-ever with HobbyZone, or Horizon Hobby. However, I do know the tricycle gear Aeroscout, when used with a buddy box and a good instructor, is by far the best trainer system I have ever used. With it, you can learn to fly on a single airplane, and then safely transition into the aircraft you mentioned in your first post. Do not be put off by the strange pusher propeller configuration. It saves propellers, motors and electronic speed controllers by avoiding prop strikes. The Aeroscout is not the prettiest trainer available, in fact it resembles a rather homely looking Republic Sea Bee amphibian. But, it flies absolutely great, much better than it looks and is the plane I often grab to fly when the wind is too gusty for many of my other light wing loading models. The only thing your instructor may need to know is the SAFE select 3-position switch (Switch B) function is on channel 5 of the DXS transmitter, which is normally the 2-position retract switch (Switch A) on most higher end Spektrum transmitters that have the wireless trainer capability. So, when the instructor sets up the Aeroscout profile in their master transmitter, the Switch B will need to be reassigned to Channel 5 in order to function correctly. If your instructor does not know how to do this, then take this as a clue that you need to find a different instructor who is familiar with Spektrum radios and their programming.

init4fun

Uh oh, looks like Speedy scared him of with terribly fearsome, evil, & brain exploding TRUST!

Just kidding Speedy

And to clc58 I'll say; PLEASE don't let any of the FAA stuff, the TRUST included, scare you off if you really do want to fly RC! The FAA registration is easy as can be, (give em $5 and they give you some numbers to put on your plane) and the TRUST isn't really a test at all, they have you read a list of rules, and then they put the rules in question form and have you answer them. It's not a test when they are giving you all of the answers, it's more like you signing onto a list of conditions under which you'll fly, conditions that will keep you on the good side of the law.

Hopefully he'll get with the club and see just how easy this all is........

Now, about that secret handshake

clc58

LOL,thanks init4fun, very serious about RC. I'm sure the local club will be a huge help.

rgburrill

Although more expensive you can also get the Apprentice. Some, if not many, say that you should learn on a 60-inch wingspan plane. Smaller planes are a lot more susceptible to wind and even with SAFE can be a problem. If you are serious about RC then you will want to fly as much as possible. Not flying because the winds are at 10MPH is not acceptable for me.
But as suggested above, see what you club instructor suggests.

clc58

thanks for the advive.

LLRCFlyer

The Apprentice comes in several sizes by E-Flite and HobbyZone. I have flown several of them and the larger, more powerful and heavier 1.5 meter E-Flite version does fly significantly better than the smaller ones. A student in my club started out on my Aeroscout S2 and then decided to get his own plane. He liked the sexier look of the large E-Flite Apprentice and bought it without having ever having seen one fly other than on a simulator. So far, he likes it just fine, but has not yet trained with it in gusty or strong wind conditions. The big Apprentice looks nice, is easy to fly and he is definitely making progress learning to fly it with a buddy box. He is young, has great vision and does not need a large plane in order to see it. The Apprentice will serve him well, but its larger wing and slower roll rate will also get it tossed around more in the wind. The E-Flite Apprentice is a fine trainer, but I still think he would have been better served with the Aeroscout S2 which costs $150 less and flies better in wind, plus the pusher motor and prop design of the HobbyZone Aeroscout S2 is more likely to survive the inevitable nose-strikes while learning to land. Agreed, the Aeroscout is not the beautiful model a teenager would want to hang up in their room and show off, but I still think it is the best trainer currently available, even without considering the lower cost. Just my opinion.....

paulTee

When I first got in RC,(33years) ago, everything was "Build your own". There were no ARF's, no Computer transmitter, and very little in the way of help for a beginner..... No youtube, no shopping online, and it was one transmitter per model .

Today most of the new stuff is foam and that means it's Electric. There is and old saying " Nothing beats the smell of nitro in the morning"..... But in my opinion Electric is the way to go ....... just assemble ,plug it in and go.....Whats not to like......It takes years to learn how to "Tune a Fuel engine" correctly! Take my word for this, you will thank me later.

clc58

Sound advice, thanks for sharing.

rgburrill

I have never heard this before. Common logic says a heavier plane gets tossed around LESS in gusty wind.

LLRCFlyer

Hi RG,

My "non-logic" for handling gusty wind conditions is this: The Apprentice has more mass (inertia) which makes it more resistant to the initial upsetting displacement forces from wind gusts, but once rolling or pitching, it will take more control response to stop it too. Your common logic comment would be true if neither plane was equipped with AS3X receivers. However, the Apprentice and the Aeroscout both use the same Spektrum receiver with AS3X (Artificial Stabilization – 3-aXis) and therein lies the difference. The Aeroscout has a higher roll and pitch rate response capability than the heavier Apprentice, which allows the AS3X function to produce a quicker flight response in the Aeroscout. Don't get me wrong. Both planes are great trainers and each can fly in strong steady wind. But for strong gusty conditions, all I can tell you is to go fly both of them back to back on a day when the gusts are about 15 mph above the sustained wind speed and then decide for yourself which one you prefer.

RCoffroadracer

You do not have to register with the FAA if you fly at a designated AMA registered flying Field known as a cbo aka community based organization . The rules on all this is evolving still. Ama fields are exempt once they get the faa approval and become a FRIA. FAA recognized identification area.
once your flying field is approved you dont need all this id bs

clc58

The club I will be joining soon does require members to have a membership with the AMA.

LLRCFlyer

The current Code of Federal Regulations specifies that each drone operator flying RC aircraft for recreation purposed only and not in furtherance of any business or profit shall register himself/herself with the FAA and obtain a single registration number which is to be applied to every aircraft (drone) weighing between 250 grams and 55 pounds that is owned/operated by the individual. The individual shall also take The Recreational UAS Safety Test (TRUST) to become aware of the different classes and types of airspace (Classes A, B, C, D, E, G, special use, restricted, prohibited, Temporary Flight Restrictions, etc.) and the restrictions applicable to each type of airspace. The only thing the FRIA does is to allow aircraft to be flown inside the boundary of a FRIA without having to have a remote ID transmitter onboard the drone. Whether or not the FAA will eventually drop the registration requirement for flight totally inside a FRIA remains to be seen. I don't expect it to be dropped because drones do sometimes just fly away and never return Law Enforcement wants to be able to identify the owner of a downed drone, regardless of where it was launched. It is true the FAA is currently considering allowing approved Community Based Organizations to establish a FRIA if they are also an approved TRUST training provider... but this is not yet approved, stay tuned for further press releases.....

clc58

So the way I take it is, a RC aircraft is considered a drone. OR the FAA classifies all remote controlled aircraft as drones.

LLRCFlyer

CLC58, you are pretty much correct. The FAA does not distinguish between RC models and Drones. They are all lumped under the term "Unmanned Aerial Systems" (UAS). RC aircraft that weigh less than 250 grams are considered essentially harmless unmanned aerial systems and do not need a registration number assigned. Everything 250 grams and over need a registration number. RC aircraft 55 pounds and over also incur operating restrictions that comply with a community based organization and also have flight area restrictions. RC drones (UAS) used under part 107 for commercial purposes require separate registration. You can learn more from the FAA sites listed below. It sounds onerous, but actually is not a complete show stopper. Horrible? Yes, but doable, like taxes. The first link will show you how to register yourself and get a registration number assigned to you to apply to all your models over 250 grams. The second link is actually included in the first link and describes the restrictions.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/register_drone

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?...edition=prelim

RCoffroadracer

Please take a moment to read this webpage. Clearly says if you fly at an approved field with FRIA status you DO NOT need a remote id or a "license" if you want to fly anywhere outside a club with FRIA status you do need to get the id etc. My guess is however, almost no one will and almost no one will ever find themselves dealing with the FAA unless they're close to a commercial airport and someone reports them. The gov isnt going to hire millions of agents to go patrol parks and fields for model airplanes. The only thing they're doing is giving themselves the law to enforce if the time comes to some knucklehead flying a drone a mile away into a jetliner full of people

https://amablog.modelaircraft.org/am...and-resources/

clc58

Very useful information, thanks gent's.

LLRCFlyer

Hi,

I read the AMA page for which you provided the URL link and did not find anything stating no registration is required inside a FRIA. Only the remote ID transmitter is not required inside a FRIA. It stated : "For a more detailed look at the requirements, view AMA’s Summary of FAA’s Final Rule on Remote ID. Please note that if your aircraft weighs at or under .55 lbs (250 grams), you are not required to comply with Remote ID or registration requirements." Notice the registration requirement is dropped only for UAS weighing 250 grams or less. Over 250 grams requires a registration regardless of where it is flown.

I also checked the link to the AMA's Summary of FAA's Rinal Rule on Remote ID and it stated:

"The Final Rule for Remote ID will have an implementation period before operators will be required to fully comply. A person operating in the NAS will need to comply with Remote ID requirements beginning March 16, 2024.

The registration requirements for UAS have remained the same. [1] You will need to register with the FAA and receive a unique registration number that must be displayed on all of your UAS. If you are complying with Remote ID via option 1 (Standard Remote ID), the serial number associated with the UAS you are flying must be registered under your unique FAA registration number. If you are complying with Remote ID via option 2 (Broadcast Modules), the broadcast module’s serial number must be registered under your unique FAA registration number."

The way I read it, flying in a FRIA does not exempt the registration requirement. It only deletes the Remote Identification requirement for a transmitter module or built in remote ID transmission. Remote ID and Registration are two separate issues. I have been known to be wrong as often as not and maybe I have missed something. It would be very valuable to me to know the basis for that requirement. So, would you be so kind as to educate me on the location and section of the rule that specifically states UAS registration is not required inside a FRIA (except for UAS <250 grams)? I'm sure the AMA would also like to know.

Thanks