jonw55

I have an uncle from Mizzou that wants to get into flying and he bought a trainer. He doesn't have anyone to teach him to fly. I was wondering if using any of those computer programs is very successful?

wings

You may want to check this thread out. It debates this very point. Pretty much most people told this guy that he would never sucede. Since he couldn't find an instructor close he tried anyway and was successful despite all the nay sayers.



[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_261073/mpage_1/key_without%252Cinstructor/anchor/tm.htm#261073]Learning without and instructor[/link]


Wings

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Some of the simulators, such as Real Flight, while not being perfectly the same as the real world, give you enough practice to readily be able to do the right things at the right times. A very large part of learning the basics to R/C flight is the ability to recognize what the plane is doing and the correct control response at the right time is to either maintain what you are doing or to correct what is going wrong.

In that sense, with enough practice, practice, practice, and practice, I believe that you CAN indeed learn to fly from a good simulator. Just don't get in a hurry to put the plane in the air for the first time. It would be better to go somewhere you can get a little help for the first few times up, especially to determine that everything is set up right. But it's not absolutely required.

FHHuber

We occasionally hear of people succeeding on thier own...

We more often hear the people who tried it on thier own who took home a bag of busted balsa.

Odds are in favor of you breaking it if you don't have help... even with the simulator.

Without simulator, about 95% chance you'll break it without the aid of an instructor. With simulator that goes down to about 60%. Get an instructor to go over the plane and trim it out, and use the simulator (just one flying lesson) your odds go to 90% success. Get 10 lessons, and you have 98% chance of doing a successful solo flight.

You can't get much better than the 98%... beginners doing solo seem to want to break it for some reason.

wings

I flew an aerobird as my first plane. Flew it for 2 -3 months without and instructor. Then I went to an LT 40. I had many succesful flights last fall . I will agree that an instructor is best if you have one available. This is the part many people can't get throught their heads. Not everyone has access to an instructor.

I don't believe the odds are that bad. Practice with the simulator and give it a shot if you don't have access to a trainer. Don't let negative people keep you from entering the hobby. If you don't have access to an instructor I think you will have a very good chance of sucess if you use the simulator.



Wings

AcousticTX

I agree. Real Flight can do wonders for someones flying skill regardless of what others may say. I had an instructor, but I was able to clip the cord pretty quick because of real flight. I say, if you cant get an instructor, go for it with the simulator, and buy cheap planes to start with Its important to keep in mind, during a crash, chances are the most you will lose is some sticks. The expensive stuff survives more often than not.

FHHuber

Well... to crash an Aerobird you just about have to try... Its in the "Toy" class of RC aircraft. Generaly they fly themselves and you push the stick to try to make it obey somewhat. Sort of semi-guided free-flight.

wings

You are correct! And it taught me to fly!

bassmanh

My Feedback: (5)

jon,

your uncle needs to do himself a favor and get a GOOD plane and a good instuctor for at least a few flights, even if he needs to travel an hour or more to do this. and also as stated the sims do help alot but dont teach you everything.

PLUS theres a BIG difference in PUCKER factor compairing a flight sim to the real thing. you WILL panic with the real thing and it will crash without at least having some buddy box time.

yes there are people who say they have soloed without any help but i will bet they had more trouble doing it than what they really tell us human nature make it sound better than it really was

well just my lost .02 worth good luck to your uncle whatever he does.


bassmanh

wings

Can free flight planes do loops? hmm not the last time I checked, lol.

nilo

Yes, use a sim and go go for it, if no instructor is available, like I did. After several weeks, my trainner is still fine.
However, what people said here is true, the panic is the most commom thing to make you crash.
I got tons of adrenaline flowing and have to say, wasn't easy to deal with it[sm=stupid.gif].
The feeling is weird, is like you being inside that flying model, like your life being in risk, very weird![sm=surprised.gif]

Nilo

FHHuber

Got to Wal-Mart... get one of the 4.5 ft foam hand toss gliders. Set the elevatro as shown in the instructions for loops. One proper toss... it'll do up to 4 loops. ($5... put a radio in it later.. they are fun for a demo-derby slope combat. Lots of pieces of foam when you get done bring the packing tape.)

b17flyer

My Feedback: (32)

And if you have to go at it alone, get the fma autopilot or the futaba pilot assist. They really do work. and if it saves ONE crash it pays for it's self.

Urbanking

My Feedback: (1)

I thought myself, If you are set on doing so, remember babysteps.

I started off with an overpowered trainer (balsa usa stick 40 w/ an OS .61 engine. I crashed it twice (one time taxing) then i finally got it. I had many planes in line so i decied tha after one flight to go to the next plane. This time a glider, got me more used to distinguishing where the plane was. Then a delta wing came next, was proud of the first flight even though it was rough at first. Then i just alternated from there. I taugh my self reaction times in a simulator, and maybe rc car helped? At least with opposite controls when facing you. I was also relaxed too. I had a "intro" flight a year before and i just said "I can do this"

jonw55

b17flyer or anyone else,
Could you please go into more detail (cost, how it works) about the fma autopilot and the other one that you described. I've never heard of them.

wings

Have you ever flown an aerobird? I am sure anyone who has flown it will agree that it is more difficult to fly than most glow trainers. But, its durable so you can crash it.


Yes, it is a toy, as is all RC planes. How many people who have flown an aerobird thinks this is hillarious?

Obviously hasn't flown one, yet feels the need to comment.


Wings

Tinhead

I'm just getting back into planes after a long absence, primarily for my teeneage son's benefit (yeah, right!) We bought RealFlight and it is very useful if nothing else but to remind me how hard I have to concentrate on maintaining the correct orientation, particularly when its coming towards you.

My son has no problems whatsoever. It just comes naturally. I put it down to the "Playstation Generation" They just seem to have a more natural sence of perspective having sat for hours on end bashing at those joypads.

First time out with our trainer he just flew it, no problems, no mishaps. It just didn't seem like a big deal to him (even when I was screaming at hime to slow down). Maybe his R/C car experience has helped - but even I can cope with them.

When we, the fortysomethings and older were kids there was nothing like Playstations, Flight Sims etc. Your first R/C experience really was like nothing else you had undertaken.

25 years ago getting into R/C was a major investment. My son's attitude, "even if I total it, a new ARTF is cheap anyway" How times have changed.

Not having any instruction isn't going to stop my son from getting out there and enjoying himself and probably with reasonable success to boot.

As for me................

steprman

FHHuber: My $0.02 worth: The Aerobird is far from a toy and it certainly does not fly itself. Having taught myself how to fly with this plane and this plane alone (as in no instructor or software to help), this plane was an awesome trainer. I am more than qualified to say, this plane will take a decent pounding, as you learn your lefts from your rights. My 11 year video jockey, couldn't fly the bird, even with me hanging over his shoulders. I'm also sure that flight simulation software would have saved me some serious $$$, as it took some time for me to get the hang of flying the real thin................buy me a drink and I'll tell you how many wings, bodies and props I've been through in the process!!

Andy
for more Aerobird fun: http://home.ptd.net/~steprman/

Brazier

[:-] I recently got a FireBird Commander XL, my first plane. The 1st flight was unsucessful-lost it 2 miles away Luckly found the next day-problem was high winds aloft- but now i'm nervous about flying again.-Is this a hard plane to fly? I'm brand new to RC planes- thanks for any help[X(]

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Interesting assessment. I have never seen the Aerobird characterized that way. Have you been flying one long?

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

No, it is a very easy plane to fly.

You did not say how it got 2 miles away, but I suspect you let it get down wind from you. What do you estimate the wind speed was where you were flying?

Here are some tips.


A critical piece of advice to you and to all two channel pilots. Respect the
wind! REALLY RESPECT THE WIND!!!!!

These planes either have throttle and rudder or throttle and differential
thrust, which does about the same thing.

If you fly on a windy day you have a very high probability of losing the
plane. Why, because you have no way to fight the wind. If the plane gets
down wind from you, and it will, here is what happens. You hit the power to
fight the wind, but these planes climb when you hit the power, so instead of
coming back to you, they climb and as they climb, the wind pushes the plane
further away.

A very very experience two channel pilot can work around this through a series
of maneuvers called the death spiral. However, this is a difficult thing to
control for a new pilot. There is a fellow in our club who has lost two
Firebird Commanders to the wind. I even lost an Aerobird because I did not
know to push the nose down to dive into the wind at the time. It was my first
flight.

Now, when the wind is mild to moderate, 2-5 mph, he is very very good with
this plane. However he is still pretty new, maybe 15 flights, and has not
learned how to handle this plane in the wind.

A three channel plane with elevator control can push the nose down and dive
into the wind to come back. So, don't fly your rudder/elevator or diff thrust
plane in wind over 5 MPH until you are very good with the plane. Don't get
over 7 MPH until you can easily fight your way back from a down wind position.

TIP

For the Firebird, II, XL, Fighterbird and Commander, if you put a popsicle stick under the back of the wing, it lowers the angle of attack of the wing and the plane will not climb
as much on power application. If you learn to manage the plane well, this can
give you better penetration into the wind, but it still will not let you put
the nose down into the wind.

Here are links to the intro videos for two of these planes:

Firebird Commander
http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_mod...ander_high.wmv

Firebird Outlaw
http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_mod...utlaw_high.wmv

FHHuber

Yes I have flown an Aerobird. Straight out of the box (assisting a fresh beginner) hand launched the aerobird and gave a touch of right then let go... it did 5 full circles climbing hands off. Thats about as close to free flight as you can get...

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

OK, you are an experience pilot helping a new flyer with the aerobird.

Yes, I think it is a great plane and love mine. After 100+ flights it comes to the field with me regardless of what other planes I birng.

It is just that most raw/new pilots are not that successful because they don't know enough to let the plane fly.

It is a great plane!

pgitta

My Feedback: (3)

You say the aerobird is a toy and well, you're right. And anything you've ever flown yourself is also a toy. You see, REAL airplanes are used pretty much for transportation or work and any plane that serves no useful purpose other than PLAYING with is nothing more than a TOY. Sorry folks. Yeah they're expensive and can be dangerous but that only makes them expensive and dangerous TOYS.

I could uncoil a slinky and gouge both of your eyes out and it wouldn't change the fact it's a toy.

Got it now? Real planes are tools. Model planes are toys.

You're not crop dusting, fire-fighting,searching and rescuing, transporting, or anything else REAL airplanes do. You're PLAYING.

Now if say you're flying an RC heli as a aerial photography business like some people (not me) then it's no longer a toy, but a tool.

Now that that's out of the way...

You would probably be the first to praise the Slow Stick as the greatest thing since sliced bread (and I love mine) but hate to tell ya, the Aerobird is more of a challenge than the SS any day. It's pretty fast. It's wing feels like a piece of oak compared to the flimsy SS or any other GWS wing. It's tough and has a cool airplane like throaty sound to it.

That said, I don't fly mine much anymore. Because:

I hate the fact I can't take off from the ground because of the V-tail.
It takes way more room to fly than the SS or Beaver.

Why step on other people's buzz?

FHHuber

I place the Aerobird (and similar planes) in the "toy" class for one reason... it is all too often purchased as a toy for a 7 to 10 year old who is not going to be getting any help. It gets abused.... overcontrolled and smashed into a tree or into some neighbor. It is TREATED as a toy.

You read the warning labels in the airplane's instructions... it warns that you need assistance to learn to fly the thing. (Yes its in there)

Even the $20 Cox/Estes "Sky Rangers (the ultimate low cost RC flying "toys" ) have the admonition in the instructions that its not really a toy... But thats the way they are treated by the people buying them.