gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

So one of the members at the field today decided to clean out his shop...brought several kits/arfs/motors/etc, and was trying to sell them.

One of the kits was a Florio Flyer Stunt Wagon which, I have to admit, I'd never heard of. But I peered around in the box, looks like everything's pre-cut, and it looks essentially similar to the Super Stick I'm currently flying, so i thought "Well...what the heck. He only wants $20 for it, and I'm always told everyone should build at least one. Why not?'

I'm by no means a builder, but I couldn't respect myself if I didn't give it a shot, ya know? Hopefully if I just take my time and test fit everything 45 times, and ask lots of questions, I can...some day ...get it built and into the air.

So...figured I'd follow the crowd, and start a build thread. Pictures will come infrequently and in large groups, since I'm a photography dinosaur, and still adore my 35mm SLR, so you'll have to wait until I decide to get a roll developed. *heh*

I've cleaned off the 4x4 flat table, placed a 1" foam board on it, and am prepared with pins, plans, wax paper, CA, Wood Glue, Epoxy, and HOPEFULLY lots of patience.

If anyone's ever built one of these, I'd love some tips/tricks before I start, and certainly I hope you experienced builders will be forthcoming with info, and tollerant of what I'm sure will be a zillion questions.

boltster

I hope its a better plane than he was a governor. Just had to put that in, its a good flyer as I remember. The plane has been around for a long time. Good luck with it. Jim in NJ

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Jim: A BIG AMEN to THAT one! Oh, this isn't supposed to be political..

I seem to remember someone at our club has one of those, seem to remember the name, ya know what I mean? And, if i recall, the owner said it was a pretty fun fly plane. I will ask more around the field and see if I can get more info on it.

DS.

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

Well, as it turns out, the wife remembered where the cheap old digicam was, so for random progress pics, I'll use it...I'll still use the 35mm on anything I need high quality photos for, like...oh...asking how to fix screw up #2,487a

Anywho...can't have a build thread without a first picture of a bunch of sticks, so here ya go.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

gboulton,
Good luck. You already hit the nail on the head, take your time and you'll do fine. Looking forward to seeing your progress as you transform this box of sticks into a plane.

As always, we'll be here to try and answer any questions you may have. You may already have figured this out, but the dumb question is the one you don't ask. So don't be afraid of asking.

Have fun and keep us posted on your progress

Ken

MountaineerFan36

gboulton

Good luck on your build. I hope you enjoy building yours as much as I have enjoyed building mine.

I can tell you the one tool that I bought right at the beginning of my build that I use over and over again is this little saw and miter box. If you don't have a scroll saw then this thing is the ticket.

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

Yeah, Ken...but as we used to say when I was doing some teaching..."But the world IS full of inquisitive idiots. "

I appreciate the support and encouragement though.

And Mountaineer, thanks for jumping in over here. I've watched your build with tremendous admiration. I only hope i can do half as well. As for the miter box, already made one for myself...SPECIFICALLY because I remember you saying how valuable it was.

Now...I DO hope you guys will forgive me, but...it's kinda like the first dollar a business makes, ya know?

My first glue joint. (Don't panic...I'm not gonna post all of them )

Dr1Driver

I've built and flown a Stunt Wagon many years ago. It builds easily, but is heavy. Put a good .40 or .45 on it. It also tends to stall withuot warning, probably due to the weight and thin airfoil. Mine never did loop satisfactorily, despite the large elevators. Good luck with it!

Dr.1

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

Whew.

This model building stuff is slow. (I know, I know..keep it that way, right? )

Ribs are aligned and in place, with top and bottom spars in place. The 'spar doublers' that run through the root ribs and butt up against the first non-root ribs are also in place. So far, I've managed (I hope! ) to work my way through the rather limited directions...the years I spent studying blueprints in college are paying off. *heh*

Pics of this evening's work below. Feel free to comment if you see anything obviously wrong.

Dr1,

Thanks for the input on the aircraft...that's certainly not what I've read elsewhere about these birds, but those are all reviews...it's nice to hear some input from someone who's flown one 'for real' instead. The plans call for a .25-.40 sized motor, and some old (circa 1992) reviews said a hot .32 was a perfect motor. While i haven't made up my mind yet, I was considering a .40 already (figuring I could go to a slower prop or practice some throttle management if necessary), so your comments certainly lend some weight to that decision.

britbrat

Florio Flyers are fabulous birds -- I have a pair of 14 yr old Flyers -- just about the the last ones produced before John Florio died. Put lots of motor in them & hang on for dear life.

The blue/yellow one is a 60 size (GMS 76), & the red/white one is a 40 size (TT 46 Pro).

Flypaper 2

Fellow in our club flies one with a OS 46 FX and one with a 61 FX . Snaprolls like nothing else. I flew the 46 a couple of times and the way he has it setup you just THINK snap. It's that sensitive. Like it ran into a brick wall and sits there doing a horizontal flatspin.

Dr1Driver

The plans call for a .25-.40 sized motor, and some old (circa 1992) reviews said a hot .32 was a perfect motor. While i haven't made up my mind yet, I was considering a .40 already (figuring I could go to a slower prop or practice some throttle management if necessary),

Following the same advice, I had an OS. 32 with a 10-4 prop on mine. It's definitely NOT enough engine for that plane, unless you can magically take about a pound out of the airframe.

Dr.1

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

Oh, Doc, I can magically take a pound out of the airframe with no issues. Heck, knowing me, I'm likely to FORGET a pound's worth of balsa at some point in the construction process.

gboulton

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Can any of you folks who, apparently, know some of the Florio Flyer history, give me some background? No real reason, just thought it'd be neat to know a bit of the history of the aircraft design and its creator.

(For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure we're not talking about John (Giovanni) Florio, the English lexicographer and translator of Montaigne. )

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

Hey Minnflyer,

Would you be so kind, working with available MonoKote colors, to do up a couple of covering schemes using the colors of the Nashville Predators NHL Hockey Team. An example of their road jersey is available at http://store1.yimg.com/I/collegefanfare_1851_92354410

Obviously no rush, since I'm a looooooooooooooooooooooong way from covering. Just looking for some ideas.

Since pics/diagrams of this aircraft are tough to find, any old generic airplane shaped thing will do.

TIA

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

Looks like I should be able to get the LE and TE balsa stock onto the wing frame today...not sure if I'll get any of the sheeting done afterwards...depends on how difficult the LE stock is.

Question for you experienced builders...how critical is sheeting to the strength of the wing? I.E., if I were to decide, in the interest of saving some weight, to sheet only the leading 1/3 or so of the wing, rather than the majority as called for in the plans, would I be significantly reducing the wing's strength?

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

Well, as it turns out closer inspection and studying of the plans reveals that there's not as much wing sheeting as I thought...in fact, what's "left" is about what I was thinking of covering ANYway. I am still curious, however, for future reference, how much structural strength 1/16" wing sheeting provides to a symetrical wing.

In the mean time, here's this afternoon's progress. Did, in fact, get the LE and TE stock put on. Figured out a bit too late that I'd used the wrong piece of balsa for the LE. Not a big deal, since it'll be getting sanded down to shape anyway, so it just means more sanding and a trip to the LHS to replace that piece (which is called for in the LE of the ailerons)

In the mean time, the frame is really starting to look like a wing, I think. I'm VERY proud of how straight it is. Each rib had 2 holes drilled into it (for servo wires), and they were clearly all drilled as one hole through the stack. Knowing this, I felt that if the wing was straight and true, I should be able to look through the holes from one end to the other and, in essence, see only 'one hole'. Well, I CAN!

Not sure as I said before if I'll try to sheet the wings tonight or not. S'pose it depends on how entertaining the HRD is.

Flypaper 2

The sheeting adds quite a bit of strength to the wing. A little tip. After you get one side sheeted, prop the wing so it is perfectly level before you sheet the other side. If you put the sheeting on with a bit of a warp, it'll be permanent. You may even want to put in a bit of washout. Hope this helps.

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

I'd picked up that tip from other forums, but had forgotten it until you mentioned it. Thanks, fly

I DID, as it turns out, get started on the sheeting this evening. The leading edge sheeting for one side (with no dihedral, it has yet to be determined which is top and bottom of this wing) is done, and I must say I'm very pleased with it. It's on very smooth, and I've already done the sanding of the leading edge to smooth and round everything out, and it looks wonderful, even if I do say so myself.

Never thought it could take several HOURS to do one bit of sheeting. *heh* But I just keep telling myself this isn't a race...it'll be done when it's done, and it's best done right.

Didn't grab any pics tonight...will hold off until I get more sheeting done. It's really starting to resemble a wing though.

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

The airplane you are building is from the beginning days of the competitive "Fun Fly" airplane. The airplanes that followed were wings mounted on a composite shaft that acted as the fuselage. They were not very appealing to the eye, but they were designed for some of the more aggressive fun fly competitions. I have seen them do some things that you didn't think were possible, like 20 take off's and landings in 60 seconds! Florio also kitted several other "Fun Fly" designs. I have a Stunt Wagon kit and one called the "Coal Hauler" NIB in my inventory of kits. You will see the O.S. 32 referred to alot with these airplanes as clubs set rules on engines for the competitive Fun Fly events and the .32 was usually the maximum displacement.
I flew a Stunt Wagon back in 1989 and I do not remember mine being heavy nor did it exhibit any of the bad tendencies that other members have described. Mine was a hot rod and very manuverable airplane to fly. Mine flew similiar to the Midwest Hots of the same time period. With the interest of 3-D flying becoming so popular, the competitive Fun Fly stuff kinda fell to the wayside. To bad, it was relatively inexpensive and most planes could be built from plans in a couple of evenings.

britbrat

I never personally met John Florio, but one of my buddies knew him as a fellow competitor. His personal history is a mystery to me, but he started to develop a machine called the Florio Flyer Fun Fly. He would appear at a competitition with a particular itteration of his vision & see how it stacked up against the aerobatic competition. The next appearance would be with an improved model featuring changes based uopn the previous "lessons". Eventually the Florio Fun Fly 40 emerged as a mature product that he began to market. The Fun Fly 60 was simply an enlarged variation. These minimalist models were noted for ease of construction, speed, extreme agility, extreme toughness & ease of repair. They soon developed a cult-like following (me included). They are highly adaptable to a variety of modifications & roles, including 3D if fitted with oversize control surfaces.

John Florio died somewhere around 1990 - 1991. The flyers are highly prized "finds" as second-hand models, & even more so in new & unused condition --- enjoy it & guard it from harm.


The 40 size version works very well with a good 46 -50 size engine & the 60 size model handles a 75 very nicely.

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

That's good stuff, guys...thanks for the insight.

The kit came with a 'catalog' (two pieces of Xeroxed paper) of the various models available from FF. The coal hauler mentioned among them, along with the fun fly planes. It's neat to hear something about their origins.

Britbrat...you just HAD to tell me to guard this thing, didn't you? I'll be scared to fly her now.

shakes268

I can lend some support there

Dr1Driver

The coal hauler mentioned among them

The Coal Hauler was, I believe, Harold Parker's design. Harold was consistently among the top 5 at most competition fun flys. Competition fun fly started to die when the same people (give or take a couple) always took the top 5 spots. They worked hard to refine their own particular plane designs and flying skills. Contrary to another poster, to compete in the top 10 wasn't cheap. The plane used come hi tech materials like arrow shaft control rods and landing gear, carbon fiber wing reinforcement, and kevlar string joint reinforcement. A radio with computer channel mixing and slaving was a must, also. Servos of over 75 oz.in. of torque were needed, and some pilots used even stronger ones. There was also attrition. If a pilot practiced like he needed to compete, he wasted planes, often one a week. Pilots would show up at a 4 event fun fly with 4 planes, and leave with maybe one, until the "same plane you started with" rule started to show up.

Dr.1

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

Yea but prices have come down considerably on radio stuff since the late 80's. You can buy 75 oz. plus servos all day long now for $25-$30. Computer radios are now the standard. Back then that stuff was a bit pricey I admit.
I also wasn't refering to building one of them to be in the "Top Ten" competitor spots. I am talking about club level, have fun airplanes. Years back, the club I was in built one called a Smith Super Special as a club event project. $40 to $50 dollars not including radio and engine was all we spent on the airframe. Even today, I can build most of them in the $50 to $75 range.
I don't think that places them in the expensive catagory, but thats just my opinion.