Deadeye

Can you tell what this plane is made of?

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

Anyone with half a brain in their head can figure out how to build a SPAD from the directions on the website. I started with an Avistar, and after crashing that, I went to SPADs. First SPAD I built flew fine. The subsequent SPADs I built with the folded wings flew great as well, while the flat airfoils didn't fly as well. SPADs got me through the worst of my learning (a crash every 10-20 flights or so back then), and I have since switched back over to balsa/plywood planes. Here's a photo of one of my nicest flying SPADs, a little hand-launched, belly landed plane based on the Derelict plans. I had an OS .32 SX and an OS .40 LA in it at various times, and it was a screamer! It went about 60mph with the .32 in it. Flew nicely at slow speeds as well, floated in for dead-stick belly landings very nicely.

emailbanter

My Feedback: (2)

The 4-star looks like it might be a SPAD.

PKH's looks like a dog fighter with smaller ailerons. I have two of the .25 sized dogfighters and like them because they are manueverable, fly well, and can compete with the other guys in our club who have them too for combat. Ahhh, plastic...........

Adui

You know, Im a n00b to the hobby, but I would have to say in this particular case, from my research anyhow.

Its "you get what you paid for". I am NOT, speaking in terms of money.
I am NOT, speaking in terms of money. (Yes I repeated that.)

What I am speaking of is the effort you put into your chosen aircraft build. Be it an ARF Balsa, a Balsa kit, or a SPAD. If you give the proper attention to detail you get a good end result, if you just slap it together, you've got junk no matter what it cost in terms of money.

I have seen some really nice aircraft, and some VERY poorly built BALSA planes that flew like a brick in the 5 years I have mostly watched others fly. My belief, based solely on a theory developed from watching and research, that the emphasis those who haven't tried SPADS have on how "Bad" they are. Is based solely on the idea that if it didn't cost a hundred bucks or more, and/or it isn't "pretty" it must not be any good.

As my Scottish friend would say, thats rubbish! I've seen SPADS in video, and a couple in real life. I have yet to see one that didn't fly well within the constraints of what it was designed to do. One pilot I met literally built one from an election sign, a piece of aluminum rod, and a small engine. It flew GREAT! (Granted this is the same guy who could make a helicopter do things that I didn't think possible but hey..)

So, my thinking.. As soon as Ive solo'ed my Arrow, I'm gathering the supplies and building a SPAD, possibly a Deb, or a BUHOR if I cant obtain the tools to cut the gutter pipe for the deb. I will follow the instructions and give it a wing with a bit of dihedral, just because I'm new and want a more stable plane to play with. Naysayers say what you will, but in this case I believe what I tell my kids about food. You aren't qualified to like or dislike ANYTHING you aren't willing to try!

Clean

I see your still such a poor builder that you are controlling your airplane with a box. Why don't you LEARN to build and fly Free Flight like the big boys do?

Or

When are you going to grow up and fly RC instead of Control Line.

Hell for that matter why don't you come to Jesus you (fill in the religion of your choice) scum.

I've heard it all, and from closed minded jerks like you.

I don't fly SPAD's because they are durable. They are..

I don't fly SPAD's because they are in-expensive. They are.

I don't fly SPAD's because they fly great. They do.

I fly SPAD's because I enjoy designing, building and flying from concept to end and currently are building SPAD's. I have built and flown FF, CL and RC of many different disciplines. I slope soar at Wilson, I have flown Carrier and Race and Aerobatics and am a world famous, in Topeka, Balloon killer in Control line. I am a force to be reconned with in RC combat, in Bonderaunt. And I have FF Monocopters that have won Internet challenges before.

But the one thing I've never been able to stomach is a closed minded old fuddyduddy like you. Man have I had to put up with total horses Asses that didn't like plastic coverings over silk and dope. ARF's intead of kits when any true man builds from a kit. Except I've read a bunch of older magazines that poo poo'd building from a kit where a REAL man builds from plans. And really, only a REAL modeler draws his own plans instead of fake modelers that build from plans.

You sir, really don't want to sound like a closed minded jerk do you? I didn't think so.

Now, I really have problems with this whole discussion because I've associated you with a couple people in my own club. They have seriously discussed outlawing SPADs at our field. That has been shut down because there are too many of the members that fly combat with them. But these two older gentlemans idea of participating in this hobby has pretty much been to show up at meetings, complain about something, anything, and try to pass rules to eliminate it. When they get out to the field, they might actually get an airplane out of the car. But most of the time they will walk up to one of the benches, sit and ***** for an hour or so, then go home, happy that they've brought enjoyment and brotherhood to soooo many people. One of them who actually does fly ONLY flys ARF's now. This is a serious reversal because for years he was one of the 'REAL MEN build from kit' people. Don't know if he ever was a Plans Only guy.

So, naturally I've lumped you into the group with these guys and you don't deserve that. Heck, I've never even met you so you really can't say you're as closed minded as that. I do apologize.

As far as the flying capabilities of SPADs vs Balsa I will gladly stand by and say that I have seen way more junky flying Balsa planes than I have seen bad flying SPADs. That's just a fact. Course, there are a lot more Balsa planes out there aren't there. I've seen good and bad and BUILT good and bad and FLOWN some real stinkers in ALL disciplines. Can't just limit it with one, all encompassing, dumbass statement with the panasche that you have.

To truly be helpful in the future, you might consider analyzing what the original poster is looking for and applying that to your knowledge of aircraft. If you don't have a recommendation, you might pass on putting out there. Being so closed minded though helps nobody. Heck, the guy might actually want to build something out of FFF and then your BALSA only comment would be well out .


And finally, just like anything in life, you can't just throw money at something and say 'you get what you pay for' As pointed out in many MANY references, some of the best things in life are free. Hell, some of them are priceless and yet free for the taking. That kind of statement also clues one into the ignorance of the poster. You don't really want to again show ignorance, do you?

So you don't want to hear from me? Fine. Feel free to ignore this whole bit. For those of you with a more open mind. I invite you to give SPADs a look. There are plenty of different ones out there and if you stop by the forum and ask, give a little info on what you're looking for, perhaps we can line you up with a ship that will fit your needs. Remember, just like any other aspect of this hobby there is a whole body of work out there from the basic ships of 15 years ago that flew, but could use improvement. To the later greater ships that do what other planes can not. The whole of the SPAD development is there and if you take a Dart and expect it to fly as well as a 4 star 40, well that's not quite a fair comparison is it.

Remember, I don't just fly SPAD's. I fly dang near everything, well, except for Helicopters. I really don't have the deep pockets for those.

Edit, Oooo, or Turbines, or Ducted fans. Really can't see putting that much money into one of those. They're purty neat looking though.

coreyelliott

No special tools needed. Many times I've cut the pipe with several passes of a razor blade. Other tools may be better, but not necessary. One of the great things about SPADs is to use what you got, including tools!

I think you'll really enjoy whatever SPAD you choose. I've got both balsa and SPAD planes and love both types. I'm not sure why someone would say SPADS fly poorly, I still can't figure out that statement. I can only assume it's inexperience with that type of aircraft, not sure.

Corey

rcpilotcd

AMEN to that

Charlie P.

Guess I'll have to withhold any opinion on leukemia and syphilis, then. ;-)

Omaha_RC_Flyer

Big Ed,

Now you know that almost every Spad I have built flies as good or if not better, than some Balsa Planes. You have seen most of them fly in person. An Electric spad can be done, and flown successfully just [link=http://www.putfile.com/omaha_rc_flyer/images/95015]Look at this one.[/link] Here is the video to prove it. http://media.putfile.com/Mini-Spadstick

Later,
Omaha

coreyelliott

That was pretty funny. = )

Corey

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

Of course I've seen a number of your SPADs fly very well, Mike. I'm no SPAD-hater. Omaha_RC_Flyer built a Mini Spad-Stik that looked so nice I thought he'd bought a Hangar 9 ARF at first glance. My comments were qualified by the fact that:

-This will be the original poster's first build and first large/hobby quality trainer
-He was debating about going with glow versus electric on his first SPAD

Experienced builders are capable of building very nice flying SPADs. The original poster is not an experienced builder. Omaha_RC_Flyer has built a number of SPADs over the years to gain the experience he needs to craft the high-quality SPADs that he now builds.

The odds of somebody with no modelling or building experience slapping together their very first Spadet and having it come out as nicely as an LT-40 ARF is almost nil. The odds of that same inexperienced novice then putting together a brushless outrunner power system on his miracle Spadet and actually getting his motor, speed controller, y-connector, 2 parallel wired 3S LiPos, LiPo charger, and radio equipment all ironed out on the first attempt would be another miracle.

Omaha_RC_Flyer could do all of the above, and even he is considering buying something like a Nexstar EP or Electristar RTF trainer to fly as a camera platform. My only advice to the original poster was the same, if you're going to go electric on your first "real" airplane, you should skip the SPAD idea and buy one of these RTF models.

SPADs are fun to watch, and it's nice to see some of the innovative ideas that SPAD enthusiasts come up with. I just wouldn't recommend trying to build one as your primary trainer and then spending $400 (charger/balancer not included) on a brushless power system so you can power it.

I think this would be a recipe for frustration. If any SPAD enthusiasts disagree, I'd love to hear their argument to the contrary!

OzMo

My Feedback: (3)

WHAT?

YUP spads SOMETIMES can be a little heavy but they DON"T HAVE TO BE. here is a LT 40 spad / swizzle stick knock off that wieghs less than my LT 40 kit built it has 2 and 4 mil wings balsa box on pine door stop stock fuse and balsa monokote tail. its a mongrel I 'm tellin ya! flys like a dream. and EASY as all get out to fix ...look close you'll see the fracture repairs[:@]

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Oh, gimme a break. I've built and flown them so I can say what I want based on qualified experience. Get a life. If you like them, then build them, and fly them. Most of us just don't want to hear it.

Oh so serious. If you want to build plastic, then knock yourself out.

If you want to build balsa, the, please, do so.

Just ligthen up about whatever you build. Hey, I happen to like green tea. I also like ARF's. Who cares.

Potato's, Patato's. Your call.

A6Ordie

As a noob that built a Spadet for his first ever plane. I loved it and it flew great even though it was 7.5lbs with a mag 46 on it. It handled the wind great, and landed like a dream. It took forever to get off the ground, but once airborne was a blast. The only thing I would add for someone that wanted to start out like I did with a SPAD is that all the little things add up when you have nothing to start with. Contol rod, fuel tubing, landing gear, fuel tank, and the like can add up to a what a cheap ARF costs. IF you SPAD most of that by building it yourself out of stuff you have around or is easy and cheap to get then you can save a significant amount of money. You can pretty much SPAD the whole airframe including the wheels for the landing gear if you want.

I do like that I'm not as afraid to crash them over a hundred and something dollar ARF.

Good Luck,

rcpilotcd

The first spad i built without outside help was a spadet, the plans are very straightford and easy to follow requiring no difficult tecchniques. as A6 said it flies like a dream, not to mention it survives full throttle encounters with trees much better than the LT40[:@][8D]

rcpilotcd

agexpert

My Feedback: (1)

LOL @ RCKEN

Junk is Junk.

Adui

ROTFLMAO!!

This is starting to look like a Chevy VS Ford rally here!

I'm a little surprised at some of the reactions, including some apparently bent feelings this thread is causing a bunch of grown men to have.

Bottom line, we can all agree (I hope) that properly built, SPAD's are a decent airplane for a much lower cost that the traditional Balsa, kit, ARF orRTF plane .

If you like the idea of saving money and don't mind putting some extra effort into what may become trial and error, build a SPAD. If your bent on spending the $$ for a balsa built kit because the "Cheap plastic junk isn't worth having" then go for it!

However, lets try and not discourage so many n00bs to the hobby, were I not as stubborn and bull headed as I can be I would have quit trying a long time ago, (Almost did) because "you cant do that" and "Its going to be really expensive" and "if you cant afford to crash don't fly" and all sorts of other naysayer crap that turns new people off in a hurry. I swear some of you make it sound like you spend %10 of your time flying and the rest earning and spending thousands on new parts to fix your wrecks..

agexpert

My Feedback: (1)

Here Here!!

This is a great hobby. Fly whatever you like. But if you ask for opinions, be prepared to get them, and don't let them make you cry, whine, moan, or otherwise ruin your apparently otherwise uneventful day.

styrenejunkie

My Feedback: (3)

I am new enough in this hobby that you might call me an advanced beginner. I started out the traditional way with RTF/ARF trainers...first the Nexstar (which you can still see small splinters of off the threshold of the runway[&o]) and the Tower Hobbies .40 trainer. Both A/C flew well, but were very fragile. Hold the plane at the wrong spot and you could hear the cracking of the balsa wood. Land a little bit too fast, and the gear either splayed out or ripped the mounting from the belly. Oh, and don't get me started about the Monocote film flapping in the breeze as the plane flew by...

I built a Debonair by the book, other than to have no dihedral in the wing, along with a RNAF wing. I was a first time builder of SPADs, and there was nothing that was complicated, and in many ways was much easier that assembling the RTFs/ARFs before. For example, how hard is it to zip-tie a battery or servo instead having to mount a plate and screw in those teeny, tiny screws in a restricted area? Hinging control surfaces? One slice with a blade and you were done! Completely total the wing? Build another in one day for about 10 bucks! The Debonair flies every bit as good as either of the two trainers that I have had, especially in weather conditions that ground those who are afraid to hear the crunching of the balsa.

Why do I fly SPADs? Two reasons--they are utterly repairable and you can make mistakes (and plenty of them) and the airplane WILL STILL FLY!!! I can't tell you how many times I have dumb-thumbed the SPAD into the ground, and the worst thing that has happened is that I have had to replace a nylon bolt for the landing gear. I don't do it because it's cheaper, I fly SPADs so I can fly more often!

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

I hate to keep bringing this thread back on topic, although so far everyone has done a great job of ignoring my efforts:

Here is the relevant question:

"If you are a beginner modeller and pilot who has never flown or constructed a hobby-grade RC aircraft of any kind before, should you build a SPAD trainer and then power it with an electric power system?"

This is essentially the question asked by the original poster.

Assuming that building a Spadet is simple and easy and even a first-timer with zero building experience will be able to create a terrific flying Spadet, should he power it with glow power or an electric setup? Why is one choice better than the other for a Spadet?

I expected this thread to turn into a glow vs. electric argument; degenerating into a pro versus anti SPAD discussion is pointless given the original poster's interest in SPADs. So, once again:

The original poster is going to build a .40-sized SPAD trainer. Should he power it with glow or electric, and why?

Charlie P.

No, we're still on topic, just answering the first part. If you can't answer this:

It makes the method of powering it irrelevent.

We haven't even gotten to the good debate yet: "Should you fly electric motors at all?"

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

Oh well, I have a feeling that most of the SPAD guys just popped over here to "spray" all over what they thought was an anti-SPAD thread and won't give the thread a second look.

What I'd like to hear about is a relatively new pilot who built himself a Spadet trainer and then ordered an inexpensive brushless power setup from United Hobbies to power it with. If you're not afraid of soldering, you could power a Spadet with a brushless outrunner setup for around $200 or so for the motor, speed controller, and LiPo pack. I've just never heard of anybody ever doing it before.

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

For an electric SPAD, you can "Swiss cheese" the fuse to save some weight by cutting several large holes in the PVC downspout (see attached photo of mine). If you're worried about drag, you can use packing tape or other adhesive film/covering/tape to seal the holes. I just used a hole saw drill bit to do mine, that's probably the quickest/easiest.

The photo below is of a fuse that preceded my nitro-powered Derelict-based SPAD in my previous post. I tried using a brushed motor/gearbox and NiMH battery power system, and it had horrible power/weight ratio. If you use a brushless/LiPo power system, you should be fine. After my electric's failure to perform, I used the wing and tail on a new solid fuse and built the nitro SPAD that I showed in my previous post.

Adui

You're absolutely right, and i apologize for my part in keeping it off topic.

In answer to his question from a n00b's standpoint, it depends on two factors for me: A) Why are we using the SPAD? if its to save $$ because your broke (Like me) then the obvious answer is to put a glow .40 on it because its far cheaper to set up, even if the long run cost could be more due to fuel costs.

If however, you just like the idea, and or ruggedness of the SPAD, then we come to my second question. Are you any good with electricity and electronics? if you say no to this STAY AWAY FROM ELECTRIC! you have to know a bit to set it up, and still must be able to follow the instructions that come with the gear (if any). On the other hand, if you have the extra $$, aren't afraid of, and are capable of working with the advanced battery systems that electrics use. Why not?? (Assuming you aren't worried about that awesome sound you lose out on with electric)

I guess, as long as you are capable of setting it up it boils down to this:, do you want to spend more money up front, and save on gas and clean up later, or do you need to skimp the $$ spending now and can afford the $20+ every few weeks for the fuel and cleaning supplies?

Answer that question and you have the answer to your dilemma.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I've had to step in to this thread once already to clean it up. Let's leave the personal attacks out of the discussion here. If you have an opinion to present in this discussion then by all means present it. But don't attack others if they don't agree with you. If the thread can't get back on topic I'll close the it down.

Ken