Sbach342Guy

When are you ready to move on to a second plane? I've been flying a high wing trainer for about a year now. I'm comfortable doing loops, rolls, stall turns, and brief inverted flight. I can even get the trainer to knife edge for 50 or so feet (at a pretty decent height though). Landings are admittedly a bit hit or miss. Sometimes they are flawless and other times I get a little bounce.

carrellh

ou'll get all kinds of opinions.
I've seen posts saying you "MUST" be able to fly a full cirvcuit of the pattern inverted before you're ready.
Or, "every" landing has to be perfect...........
My opinion is less drastic. If you think you're ready, you probably are. If you pick a second plane from RCKen's list http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4537845/tm.htm (or something similar) and possibly have an instructor availble to help with the first few flights, you'll know very soon if you're ready or if you need more time with your trainer.

ameyam

Two things must happen before you are ready to go to your second airplane:

1) You must be able to take-off and land with complete ease. EVERY landing has to be perfect. You must be able to practically place it on the ground as if you were holding on to it

2) You must fly the trainer to the point that you are completely bored with it. When you start to feel yourself not requiring to maintain concentration when flying or landing the trainer it means you are done with it.

Then if you have a sim, start flying the more difficult low wingers on it and you will immediately realise whether you are ready to move on to your second airplane

Ameyam

Sbach342Guy

Now that's just plain funny.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Hmm I don,t think so, still working on that perfect landing after fifty years or so but its coming I can feel it.


Truth be know only you can make the decision after inward reflection and satisfying yourself that you are competant. It does help if you have the imput of a valued mentor and not just opinions pulled down here.

John

ChuckW

Have you been flying the same trainer for a year? If so, you'd probbaly do just fine moving on. Just don't take too big of a step and don't forget to still concentrate on the fundamental stuff like landings with your new airplane. Don't toss that old trainer out though. They are great for relaxing flying now and then.

Sbach342Guy

Yep, same plane for the last year or so. Landings are what worry me. Trainers seem to float so much that landings, even when they go wrong, usually aren't too bad. The worst I've done is snap the plastic guide on the nose gear from a hard landing. I've never even tipped it over. From what I've read low-wing and mid-wing planes land at a pretty high speed compared to the high wings. The extra speed worries me that even slight mistakes with a low\mid wing will end terribly. The only good thing is that low\mids are probably easier to stall when you are actually ready to touch down. The trainers seem to want stay airborne even when dead stick.

ArcticCatRider

My Feedback: (6)

The mid and low wings don't come in as hot as you think. TO be honest, my Sig 40 Star 60 is actually much slower than my trainer for a landing. I guess the difficult part is I have to start my final approach about 6 miles away since the thing floats forever.

Sometimes hot landings are easier too. The plane responds better when it's got some wind under the wings.

If I were you..I"d get a 2nd plane. And it'd be a mid wing or a low wing...not a "shoulder wing" like an Ugly Stik....although those aren't bad either.

Even my Ultimate biplanes come in at about 2 mph.

TimBle

i moved onto my 2nd plane when i got bored with the trainer. I can perform all the basic aerobatic manuevres with it but i always hated the floaty landings. I enjoy my low wing sport plane much more.I would say that once you are comfortable with stalling and recovering a trainer you are ready for anything.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Here is my approach to this issue. You are ready when you are ready. Trainers are fine, and to tell you the truth, I still have one and fly it. I sold my Nexstar and regretted selling it, so I bought another.. as a club trainer, but you know, I fly it myself all the time. It's great to "get back to basics" once in a while. These smooth flying advanced planes spoil you and flying a trainer again always brings me back to reality.

With that said, you decide when you are ready to move to a more advanced plane. There is absolutely nothing wrong with flying the trainer for a while.

When " I was ready ", I decided, with some help from the pro's at the club, to move up to a Tiger 60. It was a perfect second plane. Of course, there are others.. the Four Star 60, for example, and many other low-wing, dihedral planes, with a good wing loading factor, is the way to go. You get the benefit of a performer with the grace of a trainer. You can set it up to be very docile at first, fly it for a few weeks, then add in a bit more aileron, elevator, and rudder control and make it do more things.

My instructor, a club "pro", told me that I could even use that plane, with it set up properly, as an entry Pattern plane. Impressive, because it did it all and was a great second level "trainer" for me. Highly recommended by many pilots. But... there are many others in that size and category that will do just fine, and I'm sure you will get several recommendations of the "best" to use.

That's my two cents worth..

CGr.

mike109

G'day

As others have said, "When you are ready. You are ready". I am a semi-permanent beginner. I have about 30 planes of various sorts but I keep coming back to my Sig Kadet Senior kit built trainers when I need a quiet relaxing fly. You will always have a soft spot for the plane that taught you to fly.

You did not say what sort of trainer you have. There are trainers and trainers. The Kadet Senior without ailerons is very much a first trainer where as something like the World Models Skyraider Mach 1 is a second trainer with its semi-symmetrical wing, higher wing loading and very small dihedral angle. The third trainer to me is the Stick in one of its many guises. And then we go to the true low wing planes such as the Four Star series and the Tiger and its clones such as the low wing Kalmato ( a really excellent flier) or the Sportster series from Great Planes.

From what you have said, you can probably go straight from your existing trainer to just about anything. Part of the advantage in going along a route such as I have described is that you get to fly a number of different wing arrangements and see the differences between them.

What I would not do though is jump straight from your trainer to a Warbird type plane. Or a serious scale model. Most scale subjects have to be flown much more carefully than your trainer. You cannot just yank them into the air with power and they generally do not land like trainers at all. There is one scale subject which does fly really well and that is the Space Walker. This is because it is a scale model of an ultralite aircraft which was designed and built by a model builder. He just built a very large model aircraft and as a result it makes an excellent scale subject which is a pleasure to fly and will do most aerobatics.

Here is a list of some of the models I have in order of how easy they are to fly.

Kit built Kadet Senior with Saito 56. Great first trainer. I use it to teach newcomers the basics.
Kit built Kadet Senior with Laser 70 Similar to above but more fun.
World Models Skyraider Mach 1 with Saito 62. Excellent trainer for younger learners. Not as stable as the Kadet.
80% scaled down Astro Hog with Saito 40. Brilliant little plane that will do anything but is very easy to fly and land. Full size is similar.
Great Planes Big Stick 40 with Super Tigre 51. I used one of these to learn to land. Quite stable on landing
Sig Four Star 60 with Saito 100. Very pleasant to fly and can do lots of things. Floats on landing so you have to give it time to bleed the speed off or it will bounce.
Sig Four Star 40 with Saito 62. Similar to its bigger brother but not quite so easy to fly.
Black Horse Space Walker 40 with Saito 72. Can do almost everything but lands faster. Nice to fly.
Black Horse Decathlon with Laser 100. This one MUST be flown with rudder or it just won't turn well. Very easy to ground loop. A good place to start for more serious scale models.
Sig Somethin' Extra with Saito 56 (Since sold and crashed sadly). Very maneuverable beast. Great fun but the first flight was rather hairy. Needs some exponential to tame the huge surfaces. Can do anything (except fly underground).

So there are some things to think about. (And get confused by). From your description of your flying, I think you could handle any of the models here. Just get an expert to help you fly the test flights and set the model up correctly and then go and have fun.

Mike in Oz.

noveldoc

My Feedback: (2)

Would agree. The best three second steppers IMHO are 4 Star 40 or 60, Tiger II or 60 and Venture 60. A 60 sized planes will be a bit smoother but these 40s are fine. The Venture is kit only but the kit and instructions are great.

You are talking thick wings here and easy landings near trainer slow. The Tigers have trike gear which may help. You can learn a lot of basic aerobatics at a slower speed. When ready, move the CG back and set up full control throws for some pretty decent performance.

I am bailing out of trainers for a Venture 60.

Tom

thailazer

Don, Congrats on your first year of RC Flying! Sounds like you have done very well and are a long ways up the learning curve. Every plane will teach you something, so I say go ahead and get that second plane. Even if it is different style trainer, it will fly differently and that is something you will chock up to experience.

Don't worry too much about your landings, as that will come with time. It really takes a good runway where you can do touch-and-go's.

As a suggestion, why not peruse the catalogs and hobby shops and see what hits your interests? We can give you advice here on whether it is a good choice or not for a second plane. Let us know what types of planes look interesting to you. You'll have fun, and we will have fun too!

Sbach342Guy

I have the Tower Trainer .40 MkII which does have ailerons. It's got a Super Tigre .45 in it. I also have a TREX 600E helicopter that I was flying before the plane. I couldn't do much more than loops, stall turns, and figure 8's with the heli. Self taught on both. I bought a Great Planes Revolver 70" with a Super Tigre .61 in it. It doesn't have any radio gear in it yet though. My dad bought a used low wing with a .46 in it. Honestly don't know which kit but it looks similar to a Tiger II. I'm tempted to finish my Revolver and fly that next.

ChuckW

While the 70" Revolver is one of the best airplanes available in my opinion, I would hold off. It is precise, maneuverable, capable of very high speeds and can be a bit tricky to land unless you are ready for it. Go for a good, low-wing sport plane like the Tiger, 4-Star, Escapade, Pulse, etc. Then step up to the Revolver and have a blast.

ndb8fxe

My Feedback: (1)

Tiger is a great second plane/first low winger. I happen to love the Big Stik 40 as a versatile bird. 4*(star) is another great flying plane.

You all but mastered the trainer (i know the landing thing is elusive), so get something that is visually appealing to you (your style), but be carefull not to bite off more than you can chew.

What type of flying interests you? Aerobatics/3D? Scale? Choose a plane that gets you moving in that direction. If you like aerobatics/3d get something that might be a good stepping stone for that. If scale flight interests you, look at something like a citabra, decatholon, cessna or the like.

I want to emphasize not to get something too advanced or expensive. You are at the point that you are building confidence and along with building confidence comes pushing your personal "envelope" as part of learning. Part of pushing the "envelope" comes crashing. I guess what I'm saying is: Keep it reasonable.

At the end of the day only you can decide.

thailazer

Don.. Wanted to add one thing. I bought the Tower Trainer 40 to get back in the hobby after being away for a decade, and I had a devil of a time landing it until I figured out (with the help of this forum) that it was nose-heavy. It would just come in too fast and not really flare. With your larger engine (I put in an OS Max 25), you might want to check your exact CG position. I moved my battery aft, putting the CG where it belongs, and that made a world of difference on landings.

My second plane for getting back into the hobby was a Tiger 2. It is a fantastic flying aircraft, but there are a few things to watch out for. I started a thread at

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_95...tm.htm#9553464

and you can see the changes I made at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWDr2AikjVw

The Tiger 2 slows down well for landing and doesn't have any bad habits at all. You can do Cuban 8's all day and outside loops are as easy as inside loops. I've had lots of planes in the past but the Tiger 2 is getting to be my all-time favorite. If your dad's ship is like a Tiger 2, give it a shot! You can always build the Tiger 2 and the Revolver later.

Sbach342Guy

I'm sure I'm still nose heavy. The Super Tigre is a heavy engine thanks to the huge muffler on it. I've added tail weight but felt like I was adding way too much to get it balanced. I'll try adding some more weight to see if it helps with the landings. My dad's low wing is a Carl Goldberg Skylark 56 Mark II. I bought it from a friend at work for my dad. It came with an OS and all servos installed for $20. Throttle was frozen but we were able to break it free. It started right up even though the thing had probably been sitting around for 10+ years, Anyway, looks like the Skylark will be my next plane. Dad wants to learn to fly so I'll teach him on my Tower Trainer if he gives me access to his Skylark. Thanks all for your input.

cloudancer03

My Feedback: (22)

sounds like your getting bored flying the trainer ..its time get a second plane..there are alot of them to choose from..mine was an easysport.great ship to grow with. you will get alot of suggestions and all you have to do is choose.dont be afraid to go a littler bigger either.they responsd and fly easier.but just do it!

fly24-7

Hangar 9 Pulse XT. They come in multiple sizes - 25, 40, 60, and 125. They look nice, hold-up well and fly great. I have a 40 size that's 4 years old and has somewhere between 400-450 flights on it. It's still going strong. Go to www.horizonhobby.com and seach for "pulse xt" for more information.

This was my first gas plane after learning to fly on an electric mini ultra stick.

cf6_mech

Sounds like you are ready for a second plane. The bounce on landing is probably more of a wire gear issue. There is very little room for error with wire gear, or they bounce you back up. If they have had a few hard landings and sag your nose gear could be hitting first too. I have had much better luck with aluminum gear. My second plane was a Goldberg Tiger.

JJ

DenverJayhawk

if you are thinking about a second plane, then odds are you're ready. Go for it. You'll love it so much more than your trainer. But as some have said, keep your trainer if you can. You'll probably enjoy flying it once in a while on a lazy Sunday.

Ken Kehlet

My Feedback: (89)

Hi Don,

Having trouble with Landings? Are you hitting on the nose gear or prop tip sometimes ?

Try This - When you are coming in for a landing and you are about 3 feet off of the ground, try to switch your vision from the total airplane, to the MAIN WHEELS. (Rear Wheels on a Tri Gear) Watch the main wheels and start adding more and more elevator as they get closer to the ground. It will help you to make much soother landings, the kind you can be proud of.

Regards,
Ken AMA 1528

fly boy2

I vote for a Tiger II or a Great Plane Cherokee. If you are worried about the hot approach; the GP Cherokee as the option of flaps.

Dont get rid of the trainer. You can add a bomb drop to it or convert it to a taildragger. My spad trainer; I added a bomb drop and I like to fly around a tree that at the edge of the field (now I'm thinking on trying it inverted).

sawdust

My Feedback: (7)

Get your self a Hanger 9 40 size Ultra Stick or 40 size Twist. Either will land slower than a trainer and either will make you a great second plane. Get an experienced pilot to take you up on a buddy box for a few flights and you will be just fine. At first only fly on low rates. If you can knife edge your trainer you'll have a ball with either of these two planes.

You don't have to be an expert flier to move up to your second plane. The Ultra Stick was my second plane and the transition was easy.

I have been flying for 9 years and I am still working on my landings.

Go get that second plane.

Todd