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Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

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Old 11-18-2011, 11:19 AM
  #726
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Hey Chris, you did seem to be having a great time!

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Old 11-19-2011, 11:43 AM
  #727
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: stuntflyr

Mark,
I'm going to visit my cousin in Kankakee sometime in December. We should get together for a visit since I'll be so close. Will be in touch.
Chris...
Absolutely Chris! Let me know when via PM or at work (PM if you need the work email addy).
Mark
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:05 PM
  #728
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Hey Tony,
Thanks for the picture. You and the rest of the established guys are the one's that make it so much fun.
Chris...
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:06 PM
  #729
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Mark,
Will do. Just out of recurrent, good for another 9 months. Gotta go...
Chris...
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Old 03-24-2012, 01:41 PM
  #730
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

ALERT!!! I just had the rudder hinges pull loose from my H9 Phoenix 7. Here's some background and what happened. I bought the model when they were fist made available, so that puts it in mid-2010, probably a kit from the first batch. Now don't forget, all of the control surfaces are hinged at the factory. Kit was assembled per the manual and a EVO 60NX was installed with the Jett tuned muffler. Each flight, the engine would eat a plug. After 6 flights with deadstick landings, I hung the model up in frustration and didn't look at it for the remainder of the 2010 season or in the 2011 season. This year I got the bug (bit really hard), to fly a pattern ship so I pulled the Phoenix off the wall and went through it carefully, including a strong pull on all of the control surfaces. I also decided that the engine issues weren't going to get the best of me, and installed the recommended tuned pipe system. Well, what a difference the pipe makes! Using an APC 11x6, 15% fuel, the engine is a totally different animal! With the engine still being pretty tight, I'm turning 14,500rpm on the ground and plugs are no longer popping every flight. Anyways, it was a very good day at the field, putting up 5 flights and the engine is coming to life. During the (almost) last flight, there were a couple of wiggles that hadn't happened before. I landed and looked over the aircraft and pulled on all of the control surfaces, all were solid until I pulled on the rudder. Imagine my surprise when the rudder very easily pulled off the T/E of the vertical fin! The only thing holding it in place was the clevis. I don't know what type of adhesive is being used, but it bonded to the hinges pretty well, but not to the surrounding wood in the vertica fin. Now mind you, I pull on all of the control surfaces before each flying session, and there were no issues noted with the rudder before the first flight of the day. I feel very fortunate that the rudder didn't part ways during the flight, as the Phoenix is a real bullet! While I do like an ARF now and then, I'm old school and prefer to build my models, but I wish that the manfacturers would stop hinging the control surfaces, that's a task I'd rather do myself so that I know it was done correctly. This is the first time that I've had hinges pull out like this and hope it's the last.

FB
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Old 03-24-2012, 01:57 PM
  #731
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

On my fast planes 2 hinges per control flap do get the good old toothpick treatment. I once lost one plane due to an aileron coming loose during a full throttle, low pass...
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Old 03-24-2012, 02:01 PM
  #732
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!


Toothpicks, always. FB, are those the paper hinges ? I don't trust 'em.
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Old 03-24-2012, 02:27 PM
  #733
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

I've never pinned my hinges and I hardly use CA hinges. I'll be used Dubro hinges when I rehinge the rudder. Crank, the hinges are probably some type of Mylar, I'll post info after I remove them.

FB
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:50 PM
  #734
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Rick, you're not the only one!

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Free Bird

ALERT!!! I just had the rudder hinges pull loose from my H9 Phoenix 7. Here's some background and what happened. I bought the model when they were fist made available, so that puts it in mid-2010, probably a kit from the first batch. Now don't forget, all of the control surfaces are hinged at the factory. Kit was assembled per the manual and a EVO 60NX was installed with the Jett tuned muffler. Each flight, the engine would eat a plug. After 6 flights with deadstick landings, I hung the model up in frustration and didn't look at it for the remainder of the 2010 season or in the 2011 season. This year I got the bug (bit really hard), to fly a pattern ship so I pulled the Phoenix off the wall and went through it carefully, including a strong pull on all of the control surfaces. I also decided that the engine issues weren't going to get the best of me, and installed the recommended tuned pipe system. Well, what a difference the pipe makes! Using an APC 11x6, 15% fuel, the engine is a totally different animal! With the engine still being pretty tight, I'm turning 14,500rpm on the ground and plugs are no longer popping every flight. Anyways, it was a very good day at the field, putting up 5 flights and the engine is coming to life. During the (almost) last flight, there were a couple of wiggles that hadn't happened before. I landed and looked over the aircraft and pulled on all of the control surfaces, all were solid until I pulled on the rudder. Imagine my surprise when the rudder very easily pulled off the T/E of the vertical fin! The only thing holding it in place was the clevis. I don't know what type of adhesive is being used, but it bonded to the hinges pretty well, but not to the surrounding wood in the vertica fin. Now mind you, I pull on all of the control surfaces before each flying session, and there were no issues noted with the rudder before the first flight of the day. I feel very fortunate that the rudder didn't part ways during the flight, as the Phoenix is a real bullet! While I do like an ARF now and then, I'm old school and prefer to build my models, but I wish that the manfacturers would stop hinging the control surfaces, that's a task I'd rather do myself so that I know it was done correctly. This is the first time that I've had hinges pull out like this and hope it's the last.

FB
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:39 AM
  #735
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Quote:
Paul, did you know about this before my post?

FB
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Old 03-25-2012, 02:26 PM
  #736
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Yeah, I believe back in early 2011 as the early offerings of the P-7’s started hitting the airfields and putting some flight time on the airframes this issue and a few others showed up. I would think Hangar 9 has resolved the issues in their current P-7 ARF offerings though.
That being said, it’s great that Hangar 9 has made this available for us even if it had or has some quirks. I have 2 of these P-7’s, fairly recent stock and recommend them to anyone that wants to get a Classic/Ballistic Pattern plane into the air in short time.
FB I’m glad that you caught the problem before any serious damage occurred, pre and post flight inspections are so important.

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ORIGINAL: Free Bird

Quote:
Paul, did you know about this before my post?

FB
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Old 03-25-2012, 05:30 PM
  #737
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

I never had the problem because I removed my rudder and angled the LE for more movement, then hinged it with pin hinges. I need the increased throw for stall turns.

BTW, I just installed a Perry pump on to my model. The Evolution .60NX makes a lot of power but with the slightly high tank it is really difficult to get the needle set right. I'm hoping the pump solves this problem. It took a bit of work to get it installed, but it came out fairly neat. I did have to adjust the pump screw out quite a bit to get the mid-range on the throttle lean enough. Setting idle and full throttle were no problem, but the pump pressure was initially too high for the mid-range. It sure seemed like it was making great power so hopefully this will work out.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:35 PM
  #738
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Glad the pump seems to be working....I have varied results with those.

Question for you guys....
If you are running a 4-stroke in one of these, can you have one with a pump from factory...and use it in the Classic Pattern contests?

Guys have had 4-stokes in the P-7 and it grooved just like a piped 2-stroke...and couldn't see any diff. between the 2-...except
the Pleasant sound out the exhaust of the 4-stroke...

Sorry guys...but I have ran muffled piped engines at my "Quick" 2-flights soccer field, and got complaints that it was too load..
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:30 AM
  #739
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Ok so don't ask why. But I messed up the motor mount and need to get another. However, it's interesting that everyone shows them as being out of stock....maybe I am not the only one; I've read about the issues with getting the motors in straight etc.

Anyway, I hate split rail mounts...hate them!! Anyone have experience with a one piece mount that dropped in real purrrdy-like?

I know, it is a lot to ask. But it doesn't look like the stock mounts will be available anywhere until early April and I am ready to go except for that!

Anything?

Thanks,
Tom
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:57 PM
  #740
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

No problem running a 4-cycle if you want to. I completely understand your fields problems with noise. Fortunately for me, mine doesn't have that issue. I love the sound of a screaming 2-cycle coming down the pike!
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:21 PM
  #741
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Tom,
Sig "had" the two piece mounts available at one time, better quality than the H9 mount.

I usually use a Dave Brown mount (lighter than most) and cut away anything that I can get by with out.

Jim
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:09 PM
  #742
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Tom,
I replaced my H9 mounts with the Sig mount (M001, I think). For starters, it was much more dimensionally square than the H9 mount and the firewall hole pattern aligned just fine. The LHS had it for $3.99 if I recall. I do prefer the single piece mountsfrom Dave Brown Products etc, Hope you find one that works.
Mark
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:54 AM
  #743
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Perfect Mark....I'll order one today from my LHS as I dont want to wait for the current backorder status on the Hangar 9 mount. Having the firewall holes line up was my biggest concern.

Thanks guys...

Tom
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:26 PM
  #744
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Well, phase one of the Perry Pump test on the EVO .60NX was a bust. I simply could not get the mid-range set using the Evo carb. Tried every adjustment I could think of and it would just go dead rich in the middle and quit. Never got it in to the air. So, back to the bench. I pulled the Perry Pump Carb off the NIB O.S. .60 F-SR I have and it would go nicely in to the Evo. So that is now installed in to my P-7 and we'll try it tomorrow. I sure hope it works because with that big bore carb it's going to make some power!
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:45 PM
  #745
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Hmmm....haven't even opened mine yet, but is there any reason the engine couldn't be mounted upright? It might solve the high fuel tank problem. and certainly upright engines are easier to work on, even if it doesn't look as good, and gets more oil on the plane. I wonder how much extra effort it would take? Otherwise, I think I would just mount a YS 70. Yeah, it's not a 2C, but it is pressurized, so no tank issues, and it spins up fairly well on a 12X8 or 11X9, and just use stock muffler. Might not have the "spirit" of ballistic pattern, but certainly would be quite effective I think.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:44 AM
  #746
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

I don't think you could easily mount a pipe on an upright engine in a P-7. And I just won't go with a 4-stroke. Too heavy, too expensive and just doesn't sound right for me! I'm trying to make the Evolution work as it makes very good power and is about 3 to 4 ounces lighter then any other engine I've looked at.
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:31 PM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Well I guess it begs the obvious question, was the high fuel tank a problem with the original P-7? If so, what was the solution back then? Were pumped 61's common at the time of the P-7? I didn't think so, but I was quite young and didn't fly yet, so I don't know. I wasn't necessarily going to use a full pipe, was contemplating something like an upright OS 55AX and a Jett muffler, but you probably are right, mounting pipe might be difficult on an upright engine, would probably need a tight radius header pipe to work. One nice thing is that you wouldn't have to unhook pipe whenever disassembling the plane.
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Old 03-29-2012, 06:17 AM
  #748
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Yes, if you check the rest of this thread, you'll see that it was a problem back in the day. You really can't put a nose retract and get the tank in line with the engine. Pumped engines were the common solution. One of the reasons O.S. used to sell the .60 F-SR with a Perry Pump and Carb.

Some of the "fixes" have been covered in this thread.

Yesterday I got three flights in with the Perry Pump Carb on the Evo .60NX. It was still a bit rich through the mid-range but it was flyable. I'm going to try something hopefully today to fix the remaining mid-range problem. But when it was flying the power was excellent!
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Old 03-29-2012, 06:26 AM
  #749
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveR

Well I guess it begs the obvious question, was the high fuel tank a problem with the original P-7? If so, what was the solution back then? Were pumped 61's common at the time of the P-7? I didn't think so, but I was quite young and didn't fly yet, so I don't know. I wasn't necessarily going to use a full pipe, was contemplating something like an upright OS 55AX and a Jett muffler, but you probably are right, mounting pipe might be difficult on an upright engine, would probably need a tight radius header pipe to work. One nice thing is that you wouldn't have to unhook pipe whenever disassembling the plane.

Dave...for whatever it is worth, I have the 55AX in mine and the Jett muffler but the whole package hasn't seen daylight yet. Getting some other stuff out of the way and will probably finish it up this weekend.

I remember that the muffler extension that came with the Jett is barely, barely long enough. But I messed up the stock motor mount and need to re-do that. My sense is I will get a little better alignment on the muffler, but I know it will be close.

Can wait to see the numbers on the 55ax and Jett combo. Should be fun.

Tom
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:50 PM
  #750
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Given tank position I think the YS-60FS (side exhaust short stroke) is likely the most suited engine for this application... At 500g it's slightly heavier than the 60NX, but still much lighter than the big case OS 61SF-P or the pumped FSR. With the pressurized system you can move the tank back towards CG and that will help with balance too. On pipe they scream too!

Kevin obviously likes the YS shorty in his Phoenix 8... as in this [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBRLKzeIKtw]YS shorty in Phoenix 8 video[/link].

If they were only available!
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