Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
07-15-2011, 02:19 AM
#677
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
Joe, thanks for the great laugh this morning. Of course like most of the regulars here I blocked Cees' babble long ago and can't see what he wrote. But I can guess. Let's hope he provides us the opportunity for you to reply like that again. I hope you will be up to the task if he does.
07-15-2011, 10:05 AM
#679
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
ORIGINAL: JoeMamma
Hey Cees, your response sounds like Einstein's “Fear of Relatives” to me !!
The actual problem is that the turbo-encabulator is simply not oscillating at a required weekly frequency. Check this out by using a tuning fork. Simply tap the tuning fork and hold it to your forehead.
This oscillation causes both of the wires to free-wheel and will cause the tribbal-valve to oscillate at at even higher frequency. This is too bad, because with high frequency at its max, the max may not be enough ! Although the wires menstrual cycle may be at a disadvantage, any advantage can be adjusted by trivvilating any other adjustment !!
Adding a non-supporting set of freeloading wire supports may exasperate this condition !! This can be easily tested with either an AC volt meter or an accurate blood–pressure tester.
Also, high amperage of the deadly kind may be experienced with ANY 220 or 440 volt retract system when using extension cords of any kind. This problem can be easily resolved by increasing the size of both the wires to 8 gauge. Please guys, DO NOT use your tongue when testing any 440 volt systems !!!
Bottom line..............the silicone-in-a tube should work.....signed, Professor Erwin Corey.
Joe M.
Hey Cees, your response sounds like Einstein's “Fear of Relatives” to me !!
The actual problem is that the turbo-encabulator is simply not oscillating at a required weekly frequency. Check this out by using a tuning fork. Simply tap the tuning fork and hold it to your forehead.
This oscillation causes both of the wires to free-wheel and will cause the tribbal-valve to oscillate at at even higher frequency. This is too bad, because with high frequency at its max, the max may not be enough ! Although the wires menstrual cycle may be at a disadvantage, any advantage can be adjusted by trivvilating any other adjustment !!
Adding a non-supporting set of freeloading wire supports may exasperate this condition !! This can be easily tested with either an AC volt meter or an accurate blood–pressure tester.
Also, high amperage of the deadly kind may be experienced with ANY 220 or 440 volt retract system when using extension cords of any kind. This problem can be easily resolved by increasing the size of both the wires to 8 gauge. Please guys, DO NOT use your tongue when testing any 440 volt systems !!!
Bottom line..............the silicone-in-a tube should work.....signed, Professor Erwin Corey.
Joe M.
Thanks.
07-15-2011, 10:26 AM
#680
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rennerod, GERMANY
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
Besides that broken wire soldering, are there more issues with those E-Flite retracts?
I am considering to try them. Never been fully happy with pneumatics or conventional mechanical retracts.
Electric systems sounds to me to be the technology you ought to have today.
I am considering to try them. Never been fully happy with pneumatics or conventional mechanical retracts.
Electric systems sounds to me to be the technology you ought to have today.
07-15-2011, 12:39 PM
#683
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lenox Township, Michigan
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
ORIGINAL: speed-panzer
Besides that broken wire soldering, are there more issues with those E-Flite retracts?
I am considering to try them. Never been fully happy with pneumatics or conventional mechanical retracts.
Electric systems sounds to me to be the technology you ought to have today.
Besides that broken wire soldering, are there more issues with those E-Flite retracts?
I am considering to try them. Never been fully happy with pneumatics or conventional mechanical retracts.
Electric systems sounds to me to be the technology you ought to have today.
Besides the broken wires, I haven't had any other problems with the EFlites, so I guess you could say I'm satisfied with them.
As a matter of fact I recently ordered sets numbers four and five........one set for a Hangar 9 Jackal and one set for an EFlite Habu 32.
Joe M.
07-15-2011, 05:15 PM
#684
My Feedback: (15)
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
We flew P-5's & 6's, like a lot of other guy's, decade's ago. I recently gave one of my built P-6's to a friend up in Ohio. We all hung out with Dave B. in those day's, and of course, copied everything he did, (except flying skills)
Jack was having problems with the CG in the 6. I asked him to ask Dave, here is what he wrote back. Dave flew P-5's and P-6's before everything else. The below explanation was our guideline each time a new Phoenix was set on the runway, alway's worked fine. No slide rule's, balance machine's, etc. Just common sense.
Understand here, the placement of the main's, servo's, tank, battery pack, etc., may not allow this explanation of CG. It worked for our set-up at the time.
Crank
From: Dave Brown <[email protected]>
To: Jack Anastasia <[email protected]>
Cc: VinTerrV <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, July 5, 2011 12:29:10 PM
Subject: RE: Hey Jack, Vince
"without fuel, if you push the tail down, it should stay down: with
fuel, if you pushed the tail down, it should right on the nose wheel!"
This is the way I checked the balance point.... It will be pretty
damned close....
More in either direction would be a matter of personal preference....
Dave
Jack was having problems with the CG in the 6. I asked him to ask Dave, here is what he wrote back. Dave flew P-5's and P-6's before everything else. The below explanation was our guideline each time a new Phoenix was set on the runway, alway's worked fine. No slide rule's, balance machine's, etc. Just common sense.
Understand here, the placement of the main's, servo's, tank, battery pack, etc., may not allow this explanation of CG. It worked for our set-up at the time.
Crank
From: Dave Brown <[email protected]>
To: Jack Anastasia <[email protected]>
Cc: VinTerrV <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, July 5, 2011 12:29:10 PM
Subject: RE: Hey Jack, Vince
"without fuel, if you push the tail down, it should stay down: with
fuel, if you pushed the tail down, it should right on the nose wheel!"
This is the way I checked the balance point.... It will be pretty
damned close....
More in either direction would be a matter of personal preference....
Dave
07-15-2011, 05:48 PM
#685
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
I just got back from the field and that is the way mine is set up. I did have to add 3 oz. to the tail but now it is neutral while inverted. I also have the stock tank and have had NO fuel problems w/ my Webra Speed .61 in the nose. I am nowhere close to the manuals throws.
07-18-2011, 04:13 PM
#688
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lenox Township, Michigan
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
ORIGINAL: speed-panzer
Joe,
where do you buy the E-Flite retracts? Tower doesn´t list them...
Dominik
Joe,
where do you buy the E-Flite retracts? Tower doesn´t list them...
Dominik
Joe M.
07-18-2011, 10:19 PM
#689
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rennerod, GERMANY
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
Thanks
Found some sources here in germany, too.
Do you operate the retracts at 4.8V or 6V? Do you use a separate battery for the retracts?
Dominik
Found some sources here in germany, too.
Do you operate the retracts at 4.8V or 6V? Do you use a separate battery for the retracts?
Dominik
07-19-2011, 04:43 PM
#690
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lenox Township, Michigan
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
ORIGINAL: speed-panzer
Thanks
Found some sources here in germany, too.
Do you operate the retracts at 4.8V or 6V? Do you use a separate battery for the retracts?
Dominik
Thanks
Found some sources here in germany, too.
Do you operate the retracts at 4.8V or 6V? Do you use a separate battery for the retracts?
Dominik
Dominik,
I didn't use a separate battery for the retracts. I'm using a 5-cell 6-volt JR 1400 mah NiCad to power up everything.
An important note: Just remember the electric EFlite's are NOT a drop in installation for the Phoenix 7 and will require some extra work to get them to operate smoothly. The Phoenix 7 is currently set up for Robart pneumatics.
The extra work was worth it ![8D] I don't like using dual cables or wires for steering, so the biggest challange for me was to use a single, solid 4-40 wire between the EFlite steering linkage and a separate steering servo.
Joe M.
07-19-2011, 04:55 PM
#691
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lenox Township, Michigan
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
ORIGINAL: dhal22
Joe, thanks for the great laugh this morning. Of course like most of the regulars here I blocked Cees' babble long ago and can't see what he wrote. But I can guess. Let's hope he provides us the opportunity for you to reply like that again. I hope you will be up to the task if he does.
Joe, thanks for the great laugh this morning. Of course like most of the regulars here I blocked Cees' babble long ago and can't see what he wrote. But I can guess. Let's hope he provides us the opportunity for you to reply like that again. I hope you will be up to the task if he does.
My response to Cees at post #673 must have chased him away for good !
For more good laughs, do a word search for Turboencabulator.
Joe M.
07-19-2011, 10:17 PM
#692
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rennerod, GERMANY
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
OK.
A little of topic - I would plan to use the E-Flite retracts on some other plane, a Flair Lightning. Hot ship, will be powered by a small block Novarossi .91 rear exhaust.
I do have 2 sets of Robart 520 series in operation, flawless so far. But I´d like to try the electrical ones!
Yes, routing the cables for the pull-pull steering of the nose landing gear always causes some intensive brainworking...
Dominik
A little of topic - I would plan to use the E-Flite retracts on some other plane, a Flair Lightning. Hot ship, will be powered by a small block Novarossi .91 rear exhaust.
I do have 2 sets of Robart 520 series in operation, flawless so far. But I´d like to try the electrical ones!
Yes, routing the cables for the pull-pull steering of the nose landing gear always causes some intensive brainworking...
Dominik
10-04-2011, 04:29 PM
#693
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lenox Township, Michigan
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
Oh well..........they say every airplane has an expiration date. Mine was today.
Been flying my Phoenix 7 all summer. What a nice aircraft.
Part of my fleet also includes an 80” SIG Four Star, a Hangar 9 Pulse 125, a Hangar 9 Twist and an 82” Great Planes Super Sportster. You can get any of these low and slow in a tight turn without any problems. But, THAT IS the problem. I’m just getting too used to flying my low and slow flyers.
Crash was 100% my fault. I was setting up for a landing on my Phoenix and got her WAY too slow in a turn that was WAY too tight. She rewarded me by falling out of the sky..........splat.
She’s too badly damaged for any repairs, so it looks like I’ll be getting another one for a winter project.
Joe M.
Been flying my Phoenix 7 all summer. What a nice aircraft.
Part of my fleet also includes an 80” SIG Four Star, a Hangar 9 Pulse 125, a Hangar 9 Twist and an 82” Great Planes Super Sportster. You can get any of these low and slow in a tight turn without any problems. But, THAT IS the problem. I’m just getting too used to flying my low and slow flyers.
Crash was 100% my fault. I was setting up for a landing on my Phoenix and got her WAY too slow in a turn that was WAY too tight. She rewarded me by falling out of the sky..........splat.
She’s too badly damaged for any repairs, so it looks like I’ll be getting another one for a winter project.
Joe M.
10-04-2011, 04:59 PM
#694
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
Shame! It says a lot for you to like it enough to get another one. After all of the complaints I've read about the Hanger 9 P7, you must have been satisfied.
10-05-2011, 12:19 AM
#695
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
JoeMamma, you write:
Crash was 100% my fault. I was setting up for a landing on my Phoenix and got her WAY too slow in a turn that was WAY too tight. She rewarded me by falling out of the sky..........splat.
maybe something to think about, it's 2011!
see picture :
To fly my Taurus, also in “windy conditions” I can switch over to cruise control.
Position 3 manual throttle operation as normally.
Position 1 airspeed control.
Trim lever of throttle stick in max position and stick lowest position is lowest useable air speed. Two clicks more of the throttle stick is absolute safe airspeed in all conditions.
Position 2 as position 1 "airspeed control" but switch over to manual on moment of touch down.
My airspeed controller prevents flying below stall conditions in normal circumstances.
Cees
Crash was 100% my fault. I was setting up for a landing on my Phoenix and got her WAY too slow in a turn that was WAY too tight. She rewarded me by falling out of the sky..........splat.
maybe something to think about, it's 2011!
see picture :
To fly my Taurus, also in “windy conditions” I can switch over to cruise control.
Position 3 manual throttle operation as normally.
Position 1 airspeed control.
Trim lever of throttle stick in max position and stick lowest position is lowest useable air speed. Two clicks more of the throttle stick is absolute safe airspeed in all conditions.
Position 2 as position 1 "airspeed control" but switch over to manual on moment of touch down.
My airspeed controller prevents flying below stall conditions in normal circumstances.
Cees
11-10-2011, 06:22 PM
#696
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lenox Township, Michigan
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
ORIGINAL: JoeMamma
Oh well..........they say every airplane has an expiration date. Mine was today.
Been flying my Phoenix 7 all summer. What a nice aircraft.
Part of my fleet also includes an 80” SIG Four Star, a Hangar 9 Pulse 125, a Hangar 9 Twist and an 82” Great Planes Super Sportster. You can get any of these low and slow in a tight turn without any problems. But, THAT IS the problem. I’m just getting too used to flying my low and slow flyers.
Crash was 100% my fault. I was setting up for a landing on my Phoenix and got her WAY too slow in a turn that was WAY too tight. She rewarded me by falling out of the sky..........splat.
She’s too badly damaged for any repairs, so it looks like I’ll be getting another one for a winter project.
Joe M.
Oh well..........they say every airplane has an expiration date. Mine was today.
Been flying my Phoenix 7 all summer. What a nice aircraft.
Part of my fleet also includes an 80” SIG Four Star, a Hangar 9 Pulse 125, a Hangar 9 Twist and an 82” Great Planes Super Sportster. You can get any of these low and slow in a tight turn without any problems. But, THAT IS the problem. I’m just getting too used to flying my low and slow flyers.
Crash was 100% my fault. I was setting up for a landing on my Phoenix and got her WAY too slow in a turn that was WAY too tight. She rewarded me by falling out of the sky..........splat.
She’s too badly damaged for any repairs, so it looks like I’ll be getting another one for a winter project.
Joe M.
, so I picked up another Phoenix 7. One thing nice is I'll have all winter to get her finished.[8D]I'll just need to repeat this 20 times..........this is NOT my slow, gentle flying Pulse 125, or my Twist or my Four Star...........DON'T get her too slow in a turn................DON'T get her too slow in a turn.....
...........DON'T get her too slow in a turn.....
...........DON'T get her too slow in a turn.....
...........DON'T get her too slow in a turn.....
...........DON'T get her too slow in a turn.....
Joe M.
11-11-2011, 12:56 AM
#697
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
Joe,
Maybe a better idea:
...........DON'T try to land without a decent circuit.....
Because, that's the only way to prevent a thight turn on low altitude before start the final approach!
Especially on low altitude and flying downwind it often seems the plane is flying too fast. When you throttle back the engine and short after that also want to make a (180 degrees?) tight turn it can be end of story.
It's a pity that with all that 2.4 GHZ, telemetry, and digital computer radios, you still cannot buy a simple stall warning device and keep in mind the high speed of modern servos even can be a disadvantage in these situations especially for the ailerons!!
Cees
Maybe a better idea:
...........DON'T try to land without a decent circuit.....
Because, that's the only way to prevent a thight turn on low altitude before start the final approach!
Especially on low altitude and flying downwind it often seems the plane is flying too fast. When you throttle back the engine and short after that also want to make a (180 degrees?) tight turn it can be end of story.
It's a pity that with all that 2.4 GHZ, telemetry, and digital computer radios, you still cannot buy a simple stall warning device and keep in mind the high speed of modern servos even can be a disadvantage in these situations especially for the ailerons!!
Cees
11-11-2011, 07:33 AM
#699
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
Joe,
Glad you are back! Her is a practical tip to help keep your aircraft out of that hole in the ground: The angle of attack is what stalls the wing, not the speed. Set up your low elevator rate such that the aircraft will not stall with full up elevator. Landing with elevator rates high enough to stall or spin is asking for trouble.
The elevator position sets the airspeed, use the throttle to control your rate of decent. Put this into practice (just like full scale) and your landings will be 10's.
This is from someone who- you guessed it- learned the hard way.
No fancy Turboencabulator device will keep a pilot from pulling the nose too high if it is available.
Good luck!
-Robert
Glad you are back! Her is a practical tip to help keep your aircraft out of that hole in the ground: The angle of attack is what stalls the wing, not the speed. Set up your low elevator rate such that the aircraft will not stall with full up elevator. Landing with elevator rates high enough to stall or spin is asking for trouble.
The elevator position sets the airspeed, use the throttle to control your rate of decent. Put this into practice (just like full scale) and your landings will be 10's.
This is from someone who- you guessed it- learned the hard way.
No fancy Turboencabulator device will keep a pilot from pulling the nose too high if it is available.
Good luck!
-Robert
11-11-2011, 12:53 PM
#700
RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
Gents, an example about fixed wing training, and the importance of airspeed.
WWW, Pilot friend, fixed wing training.
Many stall/spin accidents have occurred in situations, such as crossed control turns from base leg to final approach (resulting in a skidding or slipping turn); attempting to recover from a high sink rate on final approach by using only an increased pitch attitude; and improper airspeed control on final approach or in other segments of the traffic pattern.
Flying a classic pattern plane isn't flying a trainer, they are designed to fly a very accentuated spin, observe the airfoils for example. When by coĂŻncidence there are spin conditions, by pilot input or external influences, he will do for what he is designed for! Spin.
Prevent these conditions occur is main goal of the pilot by training, observing and control and IMO not limiting the capabilities of an airplane or making the piloting more complicated by switches.
Flying a decent circuit is most important, observe compenstation for drift, divide the circuit in (ground related!!) turns of no more than 90 degrees, maintain a safe airspeed, maintain altitude to recover from a spin if possible!! Recovering from a spin in the turn to final did happen me ones with my Orion, it was a matter of parts of a second!
Cees
WWW, Pilot friend, fixed wing training.
Many stall/spin accidents have occurred in situations, such as crossed control turns from base leg to final approach (resulting in a skidding or slipping turn); attempting to recover from a high sink rate on final approach by using only an increased pitch attitude; and improper airspeed control on final approach or in other segments of the traffic pattern.
Flying a classic pattern plane isn't flying a trainer, they are designed to fly a very accentuated spin, observe the airfoils for example. When by coĂŻncidence there are spin conditions, by pilot input or external influences, he will do for what he is designed for! Spin.
Prevent these conditions occur is main goal of the pilot by training, observing and control and IMO not limiting the capabilities of an airplane or making the piloting more complicated by switches.
Flying a decent circuit is most important, observe compenstation for drift, divide the circuit in (ground related!!) turns of no more than 90 degrees, maintain a safe airspeed, maintain altitude to recover from a spin if possible!! Recovering from a spin in the turn to final did happen me ones with my Orion, it was a matter of parts of a second!
Cees