Zpat

My Feedback: (2)

Our club has decided to make it a rule that the only type of flying that will be tolerated is flying in a pattern, 150' in front of the flying line.

What's the general thoughts on this rule?

quint-rcu

My Feedback: (24)

It's hard to give an oppinion without knowing the details of what prompted this, but If I was faced with such a rule I would either vote new officers in or find another club.

quint

BillyGoat

Just want to clarify what you are saying, the only type of flying allowed within 150’ of the flight line is flying in the pattern? Aerobatics and such must be done beyond that point?

If this is the case sounds like the actions of a few within your club prompted some type of ruling for safety sake? A club that I flew at years ago had a runway, flight line and pit area was very narrow. Due to the fact that one individual lacked the courtesy to not do low high-speed passes and other aerobatics over the runway while others were flying (unlike the rest of us) this club instituted a similar rule. I was all for the ruling because I quickly discovered it was very disconcerting to be in a vulnerable position, looking up at your own plane while another passed within a couple yards in front of you. The official ruling was that all aerobatics had to be done on the other side of the runway, which was about 25-35 yards wide, if that.

DavidAgar

My Feedback: (108)

We would need the circumstances that have made the need for this rule to come into effect. I know that some members of some of the clubs that I have flown at can only 3D and hover the helicopters over the runway, which really stops others from flying so a rule of this type might be in order. Let us know the details and Good Luck, Dave

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Where are the ProBro's when you need them?

DBCherry

My Feedback: (4)

I agree, we need more info to pass on our thoughts.

Our club has a rule regarding flying a "pattern", but it only comes into effect when there's more than one plane in the air, and then, only if one of the pilots cares. I've flown with one or two others at times where we've just flown whatever pattern we care to, inculding low passes over the runway in any direction.

If one of the pilots is newer, or conserned about a mid air, then we fly "with" them.

If someone is there flying 3D, I simply fly the way I want, including low passes or touch and goes, I simply announce them before hand. The 3D flyer will generally move out further, or up higher. If he doesn't, he runs the risk of losing his plane to mine.
Dennis-

Zpat

My Feedback: (2)

The object is to eliminate any close in 3D flight and close in high speed passes.
This rule is only in effect when a majority of members fly, because that is the only time it is enforced.
Is a rule broken if no one notices?
What are other clubs doing to tolerate these madmen who insist on flying in close?

fiveoboy01

My Feedback: (3)

Good thoughts Dennis.

A 3D flyer doing stuff down low and close, if he is a good 3D flyer he will quickly get up and away when someone announces takeoff or landing.

It sounds like the club has had a few issues with some flying unsafely, thus the new rule...?

I don't think you can classify someone as a madman just because they fly in close.

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

The best time do 3D: When I'm the only one flying.
The 2nd best time to 3D: when there's only one other guy flying.

Otherwise forget it, I'm not sacrificing one of my planes. I just fly in ovals and do aerobatics in a pattern when there are three or more planes in the air. And lately, when there's four flying, I'm landing.

Those are my rules and they work for me.

Joe

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

I commend your club!

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

I think your club's new rule could potentially be way to repressive and if vigorously enforced would cause me to quit or run for office to change it. This thread prompted me to start a poll looking for any correlation to age and tolerance of 3D flying cause let's face it, that's what the rule is all about. I theorized that older club members are less tolerant of the 3D type of flying and so far the poll is showing that to be true. If that is what the majority of club members want than so be it but if there is a small group of older members that tend to make the rules and this is what they came up with than you will surely have some upset members. We have seen this trend a lot on RCU and the arguements for and against 3D are tired and as useful as conversations about religion and politics.

I think the ultimate solution is pretty much what JoeAirport just stated and that there has to be a balance of flying styles and consideration for others to find the best possible balance and make the majority of pilots content.

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

Basin Bum,
Ya know as a kid I really hated being typecast, being told I was too young to participate. I find now that I'm in my mid fifties I resent being typecast even more. Age has nothing to do with having a rigid mind set. In my field there is a perception that younger engineers have fresher ideas - baloney. I've always been the one pushing the envelope. So take your perception the age correlates with rigidity and come back and see me in 30 years!

John

BillyGoat

Basinbum, I don’t believe people are against 3-D but rather the manner in which it sometimes done. I like to watch somebody do 3-D in close and down on the deck but NOT while I’m on the flight line. I want to keep an eye on my airplane, not somebody else’s that is coming close to invading my zone of personal safety.

Nothing ticks me off more than somebody that uses the field as though they are not sharing it with other guys. Doing 3-D or high speed strafing runs over the middle of runway while people are flying is a lack of regard for others. Certainly I’m MUCH less tolerant of such issues than I was 20-25 years ago. So there is your age correlation.

If everybody had sense enough to adopt JoeAirPort’s attitude then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

John,
Stereotypes exist for a reason. There are many that are based on myth or are so old as not to apply but many are just plane true. It is not politically correct to say it but many groups of people exhibit predictible traits of behavior and that's just a fact of life. Of course there are many exceptions to every stereotype but in this case take a look at the poll and tell me I am wrong. Under 21 is only positive towards 3D and neutrality and negitivity towards 3D increase with age. Who tends to have the time and interest to run for office at many clubs, the older members who probably have been involved in the hobby for a long time. Of course there are many that like 3D but how often have we seen threads on RCU where people propose to make up rules to modify other's behavior?

Maybe it's time to stop resenting that people will will have preconceived notions about you, accept that it happens, and move on. Knowing that and using it to your advantage or working to change that perception in those around you is a lot more productive.

scottrc

Another post without information to back it up, thus creating speculation. Come on Zplat, whats up? Is this a Troll?????

Heres my guess, maybe you have to stay in a pattern while flying? Even if someone is flying 3D, they need to stay in asome sort of direction, but many just fly like a kid in a toystore. Any direction and anywhere the plane feels like going.

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

Well if I had to guess, that rule came out of toomany pilots doing 3D hovering right in everybodys way. About 5 years ago before 3D became popular. I/We developed basic flying rules for the field. Since it is owned and maintained by the City I submitted them for approval. Then they made up nice big signs and were posted.
Now Iam sure we have a substantial more amount of pilots flying here on a regular basis than you do and for the most part the rules are followed. These are basic flying rules which places blame where it belongs

1.Active runway is for takeoffs & Landings

2.Fly By's and Touch & Go's permitted

3.No Aerobatics over the Active Runway

4. No Hovering/Hanging over the Runway

5. No Figure 8 Patterns

6. Call Takeoffs and Landings

7. Deadsticks Pilots have right of way.

8. Fly the pattern

Now to explain----These rules are to mainly protect the Runway area. Does not mean you have to fly around in circles all day. It means if you want to fly 3D, take it out a little ways and not be fooling around over the runway. Usually between the runway and a typical downwind leg area.

Helicopters go by the rules too. You want to hover right in the middle of everybodys way. Then your at fault and held responsible for the plane that hits your helicopter. Go hover somepace else.

If I flyby over the runway and nail somebody hanging on the prop, he owes me a new plane.

I'm sure the club means well, just not thought out well.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Billy,
No arguement on what you said from me.

Scott,
I was flying yesterday and doing some 3D but up high and back from the runway since there were other planes in the air. One in particular was flying eratically and pulling up right over the runway which I watched him do in front of a turbine once during the day. At least my 3D was somewhat predictible and another pilot could easily tell where I would be from one minute to the next. This guy was worse than any 3D pilot I have seen in that there was no rhyme or reason to his flying and I avoided going up when he was in the air, so your point is well taken. I don't think there is a rule on the planet that could take into account what this guy was doing and just a lack of understanding and experiance is his problem. I should have talked to him but I was to irritated at the time and didn't think I could do it diplomatically.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Cyclic,
Who enforces the rules? What if someone does figure eights (which I always have my students do to teach then to turn in both directions). Do you have the authority to shoot them and do they have to salute on the way out to the flightline?

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

No it's very simple we call the Open Space Rangers. These are Certified Police Oficers. One of whom is a Flyer as well (hey it helps). This is city property and falls under their jurisdiction. He writes out a ticket or depending on what happen tell's them to leave. It only comes to this maybe a couple times a month. Most of the time it is self governed and go by the rules. There are always those who tell us to go -----ourselves and that's when it's time to call the cops and get them out. This does not mean mid airs don't happen and nobodys perfect. This is all about safety.

Unlike out in rural areas where a majority of pilots in a local area can be a group of "good ol boy's," It's a city type area here and pilots consist of every profession in the phone book. Shoot , a pilot could nail another plane. Garbage truck pilot is a witness. Policeman pilot gets involved. Need a lawyer? He is over in the impound area. Cut your finger bringing inthe pieces, Doctor pilot is in the engine runup area. Looks like you need a new plane. LHS Pilot says bring it on by the store. Judges, Machinists, Construction, Scientistsand the whole enchilada. So for the most part we canself govern the place unless things take a rough turn.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

I didn't think through the differance between figure eights and figure eight pattern, I'll retract that statement. Your lucky you can get your rangers to come out, through budget cuts ours are rarely seen at the field. Our club came up with a set of rules and we have been trying to get a sign posted but you wouldn't believe the requirements to get a friggen sign posted in the city. Even then, enforcement would be a joke and since the sign is in English only half the people will understand it anyways.

Tell the truth though, the city turned down your rule about saluting at the flightline didn't they?

dr_wogz

My Feedback: (3)

Joe, soem of teh best rules so far, and some we, our club, have adopted..

I've always seen it being the pilot who is inconsiderate to other flyers.

And at our feild, there is one guy, young guy. He's a great pilot, but he seems to always pick teh time tio fly. And it';s usually about teh time trainers and novices get into the air. He then does his thing, with his 1.20 super sportster; flopping all over teh runway, pulling up 'into' the pattern, 'low & slow' from both directions, with an stall turn in the middle, etc.. Kind of intimidates new flyers..

There'll be a few at each feild, it's known as teh 'a-hole factor; In a group of people, one will always emerge as teh one who will do 'questionable things', and it is A) accepted, and B) the doer has no idea, no clue, and no talent to learn from it.

fiveoboy01

My Feedback: (3)

You're kidding, right? A TICKET?!?!

I can see verbal warnings a few times, followed by expulsion, but writing someone a ticket for flying against the pattern or too close is absurd.

Zpat

My Feedback: (2)

OK, I'll fess up.
I am the reason for the rule. Flyers have always complained about my style of flying. Spectators seem to enjoy it.
Long ago I started just flying out in front of myself, at the time just to practice tail slides. Since 3D came about I've drifted behind the flight line a time or two. (The reason for my public apology when things got too close for comfort)

I just wanted to test the waters in this forum.

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Use some common sense and there wouldn't be a need for a rule like that. When someone is in the air with you, don't hover or flight right on the runway for one. If you are drifing into the pits, practice a bunch more before you start doing it down low. If you are the master of your plane and can make it do anything you want without fail, then sure, fly it right in front of you and hover down low when it is safe. If it is drifting into the pits, your not ready to be hoving right in front of you yet. Keep practicing and keep getting better and don't do it when others are trying to fly. Your just looking for trouble then. Respect the guys you fly with and they will respect you.

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

Basin Bum,
Spoken like someone who has never been on the wrong side of prejudice. You can't fight prejudice. I can do nothing about my age, can you? I'll be happy to talk to you about your platitudes when you reach my age.

As far as flying 3D if everyone shows each other consideration there is no problem. I'm lucky enough that it doesn't come up at my field.

John