Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

I would like to take this out for a spin since it is a subject i don't recall ever seeing here. For example. Your out at an airfield having a good time. You know most everyone their, maybe not close friends with many, but you know em. Then a plane-and we'll use a trainer" nails you. might not even be a direct hit. Really doesn't matter where the plane hit ("but") you get hurt. Could be a cut requiring stitches, Possible sprain or busted leg or whatever. Thing is it requires a trip to the hospital by buddies or worse case , an ambulance ride.

Most of us have seen somebody get hit whether minor or major. My question is what do you do with the plane? How many times have we seen the mess picked up and thrown into the back ot the truck. Its so routine its like heading for the bathroom before a flight. When somebody gets hurt, should this not be considered a legal accident? Confiscate the plane immediately and see what caused it?

Now I know trying to find an electronic failure can be a bit of a pain if not imposssible, I have been through that but there is more that can go wrong with a plane without that. An airfield set up for one. Lets say a plane comes in for landing or taking off and things get loose and the plane veers off at the far end of the runway while still at some speed. The plane hits some kids planying close by. What are the kids doing their in the first place. To me its their fault and the fault of the club for not restricting space.

Plane comes into the pits or pilots boxes- kaboom kabang. Did the guy have his controls hooked up wrong. Was it pilot error? Aliens? From what I have seen around here (an most of it being minor) pilots should be held more accountable than they are. Its all a big "oops," clean up the mess and go home. There are countless scenarios to pick from but should law enforcement be called when a worse case comes up or when anybody gets hurt and find out what caused it or could it have been avoided?

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I have a feeling this is going to be a long thread. Before I post my opinions let me give a quick background on myself (I think this is important to know here so you know why someone thinks the way they do). First, I am an instructor at our field so I am constantly harping my students on safety. Second, I have been hit by a plane before. I was standing at the back of my truck when everybody started yelling "heads up". A flyer at our field was flying an Extra-ish type plane and got into a bit of bind. This plane was definitely beyond his skill level and shouldn't have been flying it in the first place, IMHO. He stalled about 10 feet above me. When everybody yelled I looked up, saw the plane, and tried to get behind the side of my truck. Took a bit of figuring but we decided that the plane hit the open back glass on my truck topper before hitting me, because the engine was dead when it hit me. I wasn't cut, but it knocked me to the ground and I had a bruise on my back that covered most of my back.

Now with that said, I think that ALL incidents of a plane hitting a person should be investigated. I understand that sometimes it can't be avoided, and that's why it's called an accident. But I feel that those cases are extremely rare. I feel that a majority of the time an incident is caused by somebody doing something they shouldn't be doing. i.e. flying a plane that is improperly assembled and is dangerous, flying a plane that is damaged and is dangerous, flying a plane with the control throws reversed and is dangerous, flying faster than their skills can handle, flying maneuvers that are more than their skills can handle, flying more of a plane than their skills can handle, flying in weather/light conditions that make it dangerous, flying in an area that is dangerous, not knowing where people are at the field and being dangerous. All, I repeat ALL of these conditions can be avoided. IMHO a plane should be put into the ground at even the slightest hint of being close to hitting somebody. No questions asked. Period.

I say all of this to get to the point that all incidents should be addressed to find out what happened. If it was truly and "act of god" and was an accident then you can find that out. But if not, you need to find out what happened so it won't happen again. If not the flier could very well get himself into the same situation again if he/she doesn't find out happened the first time.

While any accident at the field are bad, but hospitalization is the best of situations. What happens if somebody dies? Planes can be replaced, people can't. Find out what happened so it won't/can't happen again.

Ok, I'll get off of my soap box now.

Next...........

CrashBurn69

My Feedback: (1)

If its an AMA sanctioned field, then there are rules that cover about 95% of the situations you talked about. And if it is a worst case senario, and insurace is used, and the AMA insurace is used, they will investigate it. Now if was a case of Bill and John were arguing in the parking lot and an hour later both were on the flight line and Bill all of a sudden had a plane fly into him and got full bore prop strike to the head or something then yes the police must be called. Or if I was the person flying and it was a just the other family there and no other witnesses to the accident, then I might call the police just for documentation purposes. But other wise, I dont think the police need be called unless death is a result of an injury. Because if you bring them in everytime there might be an incedent, then it will be like the burglar that broke into a house and got bit by the family dog, then sued the family and won a bunch of money from their homeowners insurance. And he was the one breaking in. But most of the time, everyone at the field will get together to find out what happened.

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

Good example and along the lines of your story, I would like to add a piece. I have seen many fields in pictures members here provide or in the magazines where the pits and spectator areas darn near go the length of a runway. For example--Had you been doing what you did down near the end of the runway, although the guy was inexperienced and flying to much plane, should you have been in that area in the first place?

Many fields I see in pictures are just an accident waiting to happen. The majority of plane crashes happen away from everybody but a fair amount also occur right in the middle of it all and people are all to quick to just clean it up and blow it off. There are many causes to an accident that have nothing to do with the guy flying the plane.

When I was a kid back in New Hampshire and actually it is still this way 40 years later. Our town baseball field has a street going by it which parallels the third base-home plate line. It is also part of the parking area. Can you imagine all these years how many cars have had their windows busted out or cars dented by foul balls when they park 10 ft from the line. Is it avoidable? you bet!

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Snoop,
Yeah, I left that part out. The pits at our field are about 250' behind the runway/flying line. The parking lot where I got hit was probably another 50' behind that. He was clearly in the wrong place.

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

The two I have seen the person was taken to the hospital and the plane was at the field when everyone returned. People come FIRST, anything else is just unacceptable!

J_R

Assuming this happens where AMA insurance is involved, the follwing is relevant.

Carl Maroney, Director of AMA Special Services, holds seminars at many of the shows around the country. He makes a point of explaining what should be done in the event of a major incident. Don't ask me to define major, but, I think we all know what the term means.

The incident should be reported to Carl immediately. There is a .pdf form on the AMA site . Carl carries a cell phone 24/7 for exactly this purpose. The aircraft should NOT be examined, there should be NO ATTEMPt at a postmortem on the aircraft. It should be protected in the state it is in, as nearly as possible.

When a major incident is reported, a local attorney his hired, and the attorney dispatches an investivator.

Carl's number is here at the bottom of the report: http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/500-B.pdf


And, Yes, the plane is secondary. Take care of the people first.

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

I think I'd call the local constabulary if the injury was severe enough that EMS was called; as well as initiating the process JR spoke of. If you have an "official" to investigate, it might prevent the situation of whose word do you take if it comes down to pointing fingers later. If not, I'd suggest everyone witnessing the event write down what they saw, rather than try to remember weeks later at the inquisition. As far as what to do with the remains of the plane, if it isn't an obvoius failure (loss of control, somebody where they shouldn't be, etc), then it should be looked at by a 3rd party that both people invoved would agree on.

Man, Snoop, this is a good one! I'm sure there will be as many opinions as posts. You always hope this stuff doesn't happen, and if it does, the "guilty" party will be man enough to 'fess up to it and do the right thing.

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

I may have lost focus on my own post replies. What I have seen first hand or heard about, many pilots are too quick to clean up the mess after a crash and figure it out later. When somebody gets hurt, sure the priority is getting that person some help but what about the plane and other areas which were contributing factors. I can bet that many injuries have been caused by a person being in the "wrong place and upon getting nailed, blame seems to shift toward the pilot. Oh well.

Roby

The only time that an investigation is really needed,(and will happen)
is when a serious injury takes place and a insurance claim is filed.
This was mentioned in a thread above somewhere.

Other than that ,a crash is a crash. It's always nice to know why a plane
goes in but it comes down to 2 reasons. Pilot error or equipment failure.
Most times it's equipment failure because people won't admit
they messed up in the first place.

Forget the formalities.

Roby

RCJake-rcu

My Feedback: (7)

Snoop Dog,

This is a great thread that brings up something that I have never thought about. Thanks for posting it.


JR,

Thanks for the info on Carl Maroney. I am going to send it to my club's officers.

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

Legal issue, yes. Confiscate the plane, no. I don't see any legal way one can take properly that isn't thiers, even if the property was involved in an accident. The police hovever, if called, could probably take the plane as evidence if there is a criminal investigation. But if the matter stays civil, I don't see how the police could take the plane either.

I think many are either to embarassed or too PO'd to really look close at the crash. They just want to pick up the rubble and hide.

One option on the legal issue would be to keep a camera with you. Then you can take pics of the accident area, location of persons, property, etc. At least this way there is a record of the conditions at the time of the accident.

Cheers!