Allure by Bryan Hebert
06-15-2016, 09:19 PM
#551
Senior Member
[QUOTE=Jason Arnold;12223839]Looking good Matt.
Cheers,
Jason
.
Thanks. Im just about done with the Dunaway foam cores. Stabs were no problem but wings have defied some attempts to get the TE bow free. A 1 mm bow persists and its identical on both panels. My building surface is plate glass and is bow free. The cores are not. Turned out the area near the tip was over melted and that was the likely cause of the bow.
Regardless, a little less heat and slower cuts will probably solve this foam issue. Other than that the panels are flat, dead nuts actually. Weights are a tidy, 8.4 and 8.3 ounces ready for wrinkle kote. Plenty of room for lighter still. No reason the foam version done with my blue printing technique couldn't come at less than 8 ounces.
Cheers,
Jason
.
Thanks. Im just about done with the Dunaway foam cores. Stabs were no problem but wings have defied some attempts to get the TE bow free. A 1 mm bow persists and its identical on both panels. My building surface is plate glass and is bow free. The cores are not. Turned out the area near the tip was over melted and that was the likely cause of the bow.
Regardless, a little less heat and slower cuts will probably solve this foam issue. Other than that the panels are flat, dead nuts actually. Weights are a tidy, 8.4 and 8.3 ounces ready for wrinkle kote. Plenty of room for lighter still. No reason the foam version done with my blue printing technique couldn't come at less than 8 ounces.
06-15-2016, 09:31 PM
#552
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[QUOTE=MTK;12224874]
240 grams ready for covering is a great weight Matt. Don't worry too much about the bow in the TE as the covering/heating process will add more twists and turns.. Just kidding! ;-)
Cheers,
Jason.
Looking good Matt.
Cheers,
Jason
.
Thanks. Im just about done with the Dunaway foam cores. Stabs were no problem but wings have defied some attempts to get the TE bow free. A 1 mm bow persists and its identical on both panels. My building surface is plate glass and is bow free. The cores are not. Turned out the area near the tip was over melted and that was the likely cause of the bow.
Regardless, a little less heat and slower cuts will probably solve this foam issue. Other than that the panels are flat, dead nuts actually. Weights are a tidy, 8.4 and 8.3 ounces ready for wrinkle kote. Plenty of room for lighter still. No reason the foam version done with my blue printing technique couldn't come at less than 8 ounces.
Cheers,
Jason
.
Thanks. Im just about done with the Dunaway foam cores. Stabs were no problem but wings have defied some attempts to get the TE bow free. A 1 mm bow persists and its identical on both panels. My building surface is plate glass and is bow free. The cores are not. Turned out the area near the tip was over melted and that was the likely cause of the bow.
Regardless, a little less heat and slower cuts will probably solve this foam issue. Other than that the panels are flat, dead nuts actually. Weights are a tidy, 8.4 and 8.3 ounces ready for wrinkle kote. Plenty of room for lighter still. No reason the foam version done with my blue printing technique couldn't come at less than 8 ounces.
Cheers,
Jason.
06-15-2016, 11:05 PM
#553
[QUOTE=MTK;12224874]
What's your, "Blue Printing Technique" Matt?
Looking good Matt.
Cheers,
Jason
.
Thanks. Im just about done with the Dunaway foam cores. Stabs were no problem but wings have defied some attempts to get the TE bow free. A 1 mm bow persists and its identical on both panels. My building surface is plate glass and is bow free. The cores are not. Turned out the area near the tip was over melted and that was the likely cause of the bow.
Regardless, a little less heat and slower cuts will probably solve this foam issue. Other than that the panels are flat, dead nuts actually. Weights are a tidy, 8.4 and 8.3 ounces ready for wrinkle kote. Plenty of room for lighter still. No reason the foam version done with my blue printing technique couldn't come at less than 8 ounces.
Cheers,
Jason
.
Thanks. Im just about done with the Dunaway foam cores. Stabs were no problem but wings have defied some attempts to get the TE bow free. A 1 mm bow persists and its identical on both panels. My building surface is plate glass and is bow free. The cores are not. Turned out the area near the tip was over melted and that was the likely cause of the bow.
Regardless, a little less heat and slower cuts will probably solve this foam issue. Other than that the panels are flat, dead nuts actually. Weights are a tidy, 8.4 and 8.3 ounces ready for wrinkle kote. Plenty of room for lighter still. No reason the foam version done with my blue printing technique couldn't come at less than 8 ounces.
06-16-2016, 04:31 AM
#554
Senior Member
[QUOTE=drac1;12224899]Scott,
It's the method I have described and talked about before in the various threads. I never gave it a name before until now. It takes weight out and puts strength/ stiffness in.
It takes a lot of time and patience to do it right. Weight removal is done in such a way that it still allows vacuum bagging without telegraphing through to the skins. Strength and stiffness added by doping carbon veil inside as I've done over the past 20 years or so. Doping has been perfected over the years to adhere the veil properly with the minimum possible dope. If there is interest in exactly how that is done, let me know. Like I said, it's quite a bit of work and consumes lots of time. Blue printing adds about 20% to the build.
I normally use epoxy as the adhesive and I went a little overboard with it this time adding about 10 grams more than normal per panel. Reason I know that is because of the resistance I felt when I cut through the skins (ailerons, servo mount). Also used too much wood for LEs and facings since my customer was a little concerned about the weights I was getting.
For my use I often will not use wood blocks but rather I shape the foam and just cover the shape with 1/16" or 3/32" sheet veneer. But I don't use wrinkle Kote for my stuff either....Esaki or silkspan is doped on and that adds a lot of strength forming a true stressed skin.
It's the method I have described and talked about before in the various threads. I never gave it a name before until now. It takes weight out and puts strength/ stiffness in.
It takes a lot of time and patience to do it right. Weight removal is done in such a way that it still allows vacuum bagging without telegraphing through to the skins. Strength and stiffness added by doping carbon veil inside as I've done over the past 20 years or so. Doping has been perfected over the years to adhere the veil properly with the minimum possible dope. If there is interest in exactly how that is done, let me know. Like I said, it's quite a bit of work and consumes lots of time. Blue printing adds about 20% to the build.
I normally use epoxy as the adhesive and I went a little overboard with it this time adding about 10 grams more than normal per panel. Reason I know that is because of the resistance I felt when I cut through the skins (ailerons, servo mount). Also used too much wood for LEs and facings since my customer was a little concerned about the weights I was getting.
For my use I often will not use wood blocks but rather I shape the foam and just cover the shape with 1/16" or 3/32" sheet veneer. But I don't use wrinkle Kote for my stuff either....Esaki or silkspan is doped on and that adds a lot of strength forming a true stressed skin.
06-16-2016, 04:58 AM
#555
[QUOTE=MTK;12224940]
Scott,
It's the method I have described and talked about before in the various threads. I never gave it a name before until now. It takes weight out and puts strength/ stiffness in.
It takes a lot of time and patience to do it right. Weight removal is done in such a way that it still allows vacuum bagging without telegraphing through to the skins. Strength and stiffness added by doping carbon veil inside as I've done over the past 20 years or so. Doping has been perfected over the years to adhere the veil properly with the minimum possible dope. If there is interest in exactly how that is done, let me know. Like I said, it's quite a bit of work and consumes lots of time. Blue printing adds about 20% to the build.
I normally use epoxy as the adhesive and I went a little overboard with it this time adding about 10 grams more than normal per panel. Reason I know that is because of the resistance I felt when I cut through the skins (ailerons, servo mount). Also used too much wood for LEs and facings since my customer was a little concerned about the weights I was getting.
For my use I often will not use wood blocks but rather I shape the foam and just cover the shape with 1/16" or 3/32" sheet veneer. But I don't use wrinkle Kote for my stuff either....Esaki or silkspan is doped on and that adds a lot of strength forming a true stressed skin.
I'm definitely interested in your technique Matt.
I'll have to look back through your threads for the blue printing.
Scott,
It's the method I have described and talked about before in the various threads. I never gave it a name before until now. It takes weight out and puts strength/ stiffness in.
It takes a lot of time and patience to do it right. Weight removal is done in such a way that it still allows vacuum bagging without telegraphing through to the skins. Strength and stiffness added by doping carbon veil inside as I've done over the past 20 years or so. Doping has been perfected over the years to adhere the veil properly with the minimum possible dope. If there is interest in exactly how that is done, let me know. Like I said, it's quite a bit of work and consumes lots of time. Blue printing adds about 20% to the build.
I normally use epoxy as the adhesive and I went a little overboard with it this time adding about 10 grams more than normal per panel. Reason I know that is because of the resistance I felt when I cut through the skins (ailerons, servo mount). Also used too much wood for LEs and facings since my customer was a little concerned about the weights I was getting.
For my use I often will not use wood blocks but rather I shape the foam and just cover the shape with 1/16" or 3/32" sheet veneer. But I don't use wrinkle Kote for my stuff either....Esaki or silkspan is doped on and that adds a lot of strength forming a true stressed skin.
I'll have to look back through your threads for the blue printing.
06-18-2016, 03:06 AM
#556
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The New Zealand AOC team at work. Would you call this a "Flock" of Allures?
The flying site is Cambridge on the North Island of NZ. Looks like a beautiful site.
The flying site is Cambridge on the North Island of NZ. Looks like a beautiful site.
06-20-2016, 12:53 PM
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06-21-2016, 04:53 AM
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Both wings are now at the same level. The second wing came out 1 gram lighter after sanding the tips, LE and TE.
Now onto cutting the ailerons out.....
Cheers,
Jason.
Now onto cutting the ailerons out.....
Cheers,
Jason.
06-23-2016, 04:29 AM
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Tonight the ailerons were marked out and separated from the wing panel. It's easy to mark out the ailerons using the jig base to mark each end of the aileron and then a light behind the wing to locate the capping cavity. Simply use a scalpel with a long steel ruler and a razor saw to cut them out.
Now to tidy them up and cap them.
Cheers,
Jason.
Now to tidy them up and cap them.
Cheers,
Jason.
06-23-2016, 07:13 AM
#564
Senior Member
Jason,
is is the wing set up for 1/4" and 3/8" at the aileron?
On the foam wing, I used 1/8" and 3/8" and I think the 3/8" may have been thicker than necessary. It added a lot of weight. It does produce a larger angle for more throw. Except I made the ailerons a little larger specifically so 25 degrees wasn't required for snaps. We'll see how they work out. Doing the mating to the fuse this evening.
I think Bryan is on the money by putting adjusters on the stab only. The fixed wing incidence is lighter in the long run. Plus it is less to fuss with for the less experienced builder.
Are you you planning the fly the built up surfaces? If yes, it would be an interesting comparison to fly the original surfaces back to back with the built up.
is is the wing set up for 1/4" and 3/8" at the aileron?
On the foam wing, I used 1/8" and 3/8" and I think the 3/8" may have been thicker than necessary. It added a lot of weight. It does produce a larger angle for more throw. Except I made the ailerons a little larger specifically so 25 degrees wasn't required for snaps. We'll see how they work out. Doing the mating to the fuse this evening.
I think Bryan is on the money by putting adjusters on the stab only. The fixed wing incidence is lighter in the long run. Plus it is less to fuss with for the less experienced builder.
Are you you planning the fly the built up surfaces? If yes, it would be an interesting comparison to fly the original surfaces back to back with the built up.
06-23-2016, 12:50 PM
#565
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Jason,
is is the wing set up for 1/4" and 3/8" at the aileron?
On the foam wing, I used 1/8" and 3/8" and I think the 3/8" may have been thicker than necessary. It added a lot of weight. It does produce a larger angle for more throw. Except I made the ailerons a little larger specifically so 25 degrees wasn't required for snaps. We'll see how they work out. Doing the mating to the fuse this evening.
I think Bryan is on the money by putting adjusters on the stab only. The fixed wing incidence is lighter in the long run. Plus it is less to fuss with for the less experienced builder.
Are you you planning the fly the built up surfaces? If yes, it would be an interesting comparison to fly the original surfaces back to back with the built up.
is is the wing set up for 1/4" and 3/8" at the aileron?
On the foam wing, I used 1/8" and 3/8" and I think the 3/8" may have been thicker than necessary. It added a lot of weight. It does produce a larger angle for more throw. Except I made the ailerons a little larger specifically so 25 degrees wasn't required for snaps. We'll see how they work out. Doing the mating to the fuse this evening.
I think Bryan is on the money by putting adjusters on the stab only. The fixed wing incidence is lighter in the long run. Plus it is less to fuss with for the less experienced builder.
Are you you planning the fly the built up surfaces? If yes, it would be an interesting comparison to fly the original surfaces back to back with the built up.
The aileron capping is 1/4" contest balsa. This capping is glued to the aileron spars so overall the width will be close to 3/8" on both sides. I think this should be fine. Because a reasonable amount of material needs to be removed in tidying up the ailerons and wing before capping, the weight gain after adding the capping should be minimal. This was my experience on the stabs.
These surfaces will be fitted to a new Allure builders kit. I can't say that I miss the adjusters on the current Allure I'm flying. Changing the wing incidence (if you must) is just a matter of placing new doughnuts in the fuse. Not having wing adjusters does take the guesswork out of getting the incidence right but it also relies on the factory getting it right in the first place. My last delivery had the wings set within 0.1 degree of each other. That is excellent.
There are stab adjusters and there are stab adjusters. Bryan has done it right having both stabs independently adjustable. This is an important thing for proper trimming. On some models they have just one adjuster which removes an important trimming adjustment.
Cheers,
Jason.
06-28-2016, 02:51 PM
#569
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Just in case people missed it, Bryan has designed a new model called the Allure Bipe. The fuse is derived from the Allure of course and the model incorporates all his knowledge in bipe design.
A new thread has been started over here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-p...t-ck-aero.html
Here are some picture just to get your taste buds watering...
Cheers,
Jason.
A new thread has been started over here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-p...t-ck-aero.html
Here are some picture just to get your taste buds watering...
Cheers,
Jason.
06-30-2016, 08:06 PM
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Can someone send summer back down to Sydney already?
Its been too cold to get out in the shed at night.. Perhaps I should just harden up? Lol
Anyway, I did brave the cold last night to cap the ailerons with 1/4" balsa. I hope to get the wings capped over the weekend.
Cheers,
Jason.
Its been too cold to get out in the shed at night.. Perhaps I should just harden up? Lol
Anyway, I did brave the cold last night to cap the ailerons with 1/4" balsa. I hope to get the wings capped over the weekend.
Cheers,
Jason.
07-07-2016, 05:45 AM
#571
Hi Guys
I have some Allure builder kits in stock now and a few ARF kits, glow and electric.
Contact me for details.. Come by and say Hi at he Nat`s !
Bryan
CKAero.net
I have some Allure builder kits in stock now and a few ARF kits, glow and electric.
Contact me for details.. Come by and say Hi at he Nat`s !
Bryan
CKAero.net
07-31-2016, 12:58 PM
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It's been a little while since my last update. There's a good reason for that. I lost all my storage space in the loft above my garage. The brother in-law has moved back in... 
Anyway, that meant that everything upstairs had to come downstairs which resulted in a situation where I couldn't swing a cat without hitting something. On Saturday things had to change so a big tidy up/clean up ensued. Needless to say, the garbage bin and recycle bin is now full and swinging a cat is now possible.
enough of that diatribe....
Back to work on the wings... The aileron cut-outs have now been cleaned up and capped with 1/4" competition grade balsa.
Next task is to sand the capping flush to the skins and then clean up and cap the ends of each aileron.
Cheers,
Jason.
Anyway, that meant that everything upstairs had to come downstairs which resulted in a situation where I couldn't swing a cat without hitting something. On Saturday things had to change so a big tidy up/clean up ensued. Needless to say, the garbage bin and recycle bin is now full and swinging a cat is now possible.enough of that diatribe....
Back to work on the wings... The aileron cut-outs have now been cleaned up and capped with 1/4" competition grade balsa.
Next task is to sand the capping flush to the skins and then clean up and cap the ends of each aileron.
Cheers,
Jason.
08-01-2016, 01:11 PM
#573
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Ailerons ends sanded back ready for capping with 2.5mm contest balsa.
I was asked which hinges will be used. The answer is Radio South 1/4 scale CA hinges.
Getting close to covering stage now... :-)
I was asked which hinges will be used. The answer is Radio South 1/4 scale CA hinges.
Getting close to covering stage now... :-)
08-01-2016, 04:43 PM
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Cheers,
Jason.