Honey Bee FP
11-17-2009, 05:00 PM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
Hey Dave,
Ya, I was looking at that and did some reading on the super skids web site. It sounded like you could usethe stock batterymounts if you wanted to, which means the battery rodshave the same spacing,which is what my quick change tray attaches to. It'll be interesting to find out!
Tinkman
Ya, I was looking at that and did some reading on the super skids web site. It sounded like you could usethe stock batterymounts if you wanted to, which means the battery rodshave the same spacing,which is what my quick change tray attaches to. It'll be interesting to find out!
Tinkman
11-17-2009, 09:46 PM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
ORIGINAL: Tinkman
Hey Dave,
Ya, I was looking at that and did some reading on the super skids web site. It sounded like you could use the stock battery mounts if you wanted to, which means the battery rods have the same spacing, which is what my quick change tray attaches to. It'll be interesting to find out!
Tinkman
Hey Dave,
Ya, I was looking at that and did some reading on the super skids web site. It sounded like you could use the stock battery mounts if you wanted to, which means the battery rods have the same spacing, which is what my quick change tray attaches to. It'll be interesting to find out!
Tinkman
11-20-2009, 11:56 PM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
OK Dave,
I got my 3D Super Skids yesterday and spent today engineering a solution for the tail boom grip. I mounted everything and after two iterationsprototyped the new grip.I think I have a fairly solid design. I'll be testing it over the Thanksgiving holiday. I'll let you know what I find, but I'm pretty sure, besides any small refinements, this will do the trick. If the design works out I'll put it into production.
Let me know what you think.
Tinkman
I got my 3D Super Skids yesterday and spent today engineering a solution for the tail boom grip. I mounted everything and after two iterationsprototyped the new grip.I think I have a fairly solid design. I'll be testing it over the Thanksgiving holiday. I'll let you know what I find, but I'm pretty sure, besides any small refinements, this will do the trick. If the design works out I'll put it into production.
Let me know what you think.
Tinkman
11-21-2009, 03:13 PM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
Hey guys.. I wanted to come on and say hey.. Its been going real good...I have been haveing a ball playing with this thing.. I finally burnt through my first tail motor.. I replaced it with a spare stock one I had.. I also just ordered the Etreme DD tail.. (So Tinkman I might try getting one of those heat sinks from ya) But I have 1 question. On theHBFP V2 with the Extreme tail is it a direct bolt on and goor is it heavier than thestock set up??? If it isheavier should I trim thetail or slide the batteryforward to get the CG back.. I would like to trimthe tail as I have found that the closer the weightis to the main shaft and still ballance the Heli seems to move a little quicker.. I am using 1000mah batts but the farther I havethem slid in the trayand still can get it at CG it seems to move a little faster.. So trimming thetail is what I would liketo do but im no expert.. Any suggestions on whatway is better and if to cut the tail anyone know howmuch as a good place to start?? or is it the same weight and just swap it out??? Thanks guys.. Tinkman everything Ive seen you build looks good... 
11-21-2009, 08:27 PM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
Hey Taz,
Thanks for the kind words. I try put quality into everything I build. After all, I put the stuff on my bird and I want the best!
To answer your question, the DD tail motor and associated hardware is heavier than stock. I haven't seen the V2, but even if the newmotor can be bolted straight on, to maintain your CG you will definitelyneed to move your battery toward the front.
When I installed mine Iended up cutting the tail boom. Not to preserve the CG or for performance reasons, but because the tail motor mount was glued on and I couldn't get it off. Icut it flush with the stock mount. To do this I heavily scoredaround the boom with a box knife, then cut through it with a fine toothed saw. Now this may seem like a no-brainer, but remember that there are wires running through the tail boom. When I was doing mine, I totally forgot about them and didn't realize it until I happened to notice the wires moving with each stroke of the saw! After all was said and done I ended up with a nice, clean cut.
The other thing you will have to deal with is the length of your wires. The DD motor is quite a bit longer than stock and there is no slack in those wires. I had to solder extensions to my leads so they would reach. Eventuallybecause ofall the testing I was doing,I ended up justgetting a new harness.
Onelast item. Make sure you get a good, hotjoint when you re-solder the wires to your motor. Cold or poorly connected joints will cause the motor to really heat up during flight. That little motor gets pretty hot as it is, so a good soldier job is critical. Remember; it's still a sealed, brushed motor. So you want it to last as long as possible.
If youdecide to installthe heat sink it will add less than 4 grams to the tail. You'llprobably onlyneed to move your battery another 1/4" or so forward to compensate. If you're used to touching the motors after flight like I am, you'll notice right away that the tail motor will be cooler. As an added benefit,I just recently noticed the tail trim will remain more stable throughout your flight as well. Without the heat sink I was continually having to adjust the tail trim to the right as the motor heated up, until it would eventually be maxed out. I still have to move the trim during flight, but I would guess that it's probably half of what I was doing before.
Tinkman
11-22-2009, 07:17 AM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
Hello all.
I've been away for a few weeks. A while back I put an upgraded motor on my HBFPv2, but something in the process caused a problem with my 4 in 1. The motor spun wildly out of control, I had a HUGE crash with a number of bent/broken parts and an inoperable 4 in 1. I was so frustrated I set the whole thing aside for a while.
When I got back to it and assessed all the damage I determined that the cost and trouble of buying a brand new HBv2 would justify going that route instead of fixing up the old one. So, I did that and have been in flying heaven for about 2 weeks. I've been getting better and better and hovering tail and side in and even took it outside for a few trials at forward flight. All of my crashes have been minor and the only things I ever broke were 2 or 3 ring-like-push-rods. Things were going great.
But then.....
My tail motor began to spin less and less quickly until it was not contributing to flight any longer. I know these are weak parts of this heli so I had prepared ahead of time and had the upgrade motor and even one of Tinkman's heat sinks ready as a replacement. So, swapped out the motor, cut the tail boom to move the back end forward a bit, extended the motor wires to give myself more room to work with and got the new one installed and ready to go.
And, for about 1/2 a battery pack all was well. But then... both motors began shutting down completely in mid flight. They just stopped. After about 3 seconds (after crashing) they would start up again. Fortunately, I didn't crash too badly and I was able to get it back in the air. But it kept happening.
I studied it for a bit and saw that, after about 20 seconds of flight time the 4 in 1 would flash and turn off, shutting down the motors. The motors seem fine and the problem ONCE AGAIN seems to be the 4 in 1.
My question is, is it a coincidence that my 4 in 1 failed again after I installed the upgrade DD motor, or did upgrading the DD motor cause this problem with the 4 in 1?
Later this morning I plan to remove the entire tail boom section and reinstall the old boom/motor from my last HB and see if the 4 in 1 works with that one. Other than that, I'm not sure how to proceed. I've already spent so much on this heli, I'm really hesitant to spend another $50 on another 4 in 1 and hope for the best.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
-jd
I've been away for a few weeks. A while back I put an upgraded motor on my HBFPv2, but something in the process caused a problem with my 4 in 1. The motor spun wildly out of control, I had a HUGE crash with a number of bent/broken parts and an inoperable 4 in 1. I was so frustrated I set the whole thing aside for a while.
When I got back to it and assessed all the damage I determined that the cost and trouble of buying a brand new HBv2 would justify going that route instead of fixing up the old one. So, I did that and have been in flying heaven for about 2 weeks. I've been getting better and better and hovering tail and side in and even took it outside for a few trials at forward flight. All of my crashes have been minor and the only things I ever broke were 2 or 3 ring-like-push-rods. Things were going great.
But then.....
My tail motor began to spin less and less quickly until it was not contributing to flight any longer. I know these are weak parts of this heli so I had prepared ahead of time and had the upgrade motor and even one of Tinkman's heat sinks ready as a replacement. So, swapped out the motor, cut the tail boom to move the back end forward a bit, extended the motor wires to give myself more room to work with and got the new one installed and ready to go.
And, for about 1/2 a battery pack all was well. But then... both motors began shutting down completely in mid flight. They just stopped. After about 3 seconds (after crashing) they would start up again. Fortunately, I didn't crash too badly and I was able to get it back in the air. But it kept happening.
I studied it for a bit and saw that, after about 20 seconds of flight time the 4 in 1 would flash and turn off, shutting down the motors. The motors seem fine and the problem ONCE AGAIN seems to be the 4 in 1.
My question is, is it a coincidence that my 4 in 1 failed again after I installed the upgrade DD motor, or did upgrading the DD motor cause this problem with the 4 in 1?
Later this morning I plan to remove the entire tail boom section and reinstall the old boom/motor from my last HB and see if the 4 in 1 works with that one. Other than that, I'm not sure how to proceed. I've already spent so much on this heli, I'm really hesitant to spend another $50 on another 4 in 1 and hope for the best.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
-jd
11-22-2009, 11:14 AM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
Hey JD,
Sorry to hear about your heli troubles. Just learning to fly one of these things is hard enough without all the 4-1 problems.
You're not the first person I've heard having problems with the V2 4-1. I'm wondering if the change from 7.4v to 11.1v is stressing the unit. I'm not an expert on the subject but it seems to me that if installing a more efficient tail motor causes the 4-1 to fail then there are other more serious issues that need to be dealt with.I'm sorry to say, it sounds to me like another 4-1 problem. I wonder if there's a tech support or something for diagnosing the problem. When mine went out, it was the gyro side that failed. Yours sounds like the receiver side.
Sorry to hear about your heli troubles. Just learning to fly one of these things is hard enough without all the 4-1 problems.
You're not the first person I've heard having problems with the V2 4-1. I'm wondering if the change from 7.4v to 11.1v is stressing the unit. I'm not an expert on the subject but it seems to me that if installing a more efficient tail motor causes the 4-1 to fail then there are other more serious issues that need to be dealt with.I'm sorry to say, it sounds to me like another 4-1 problem. I wonder if there's a tech support or something for diagnosing the problem. When mine went out, it was the gyro side that failed. Yours sounds like the receiver side.
Tinkman
11-22-2009, 11:48 AM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
ORIGINAL: Tinkman
Hey JD,
Sorry to hear about your heli troubles. Just learning to fly one of these things is hard enough without all the 4-1 problems.
You're not the first person I've heard having problems with the V2 4-1. I'm wondering if the change from 7.4v to 11.1v is stressing the unit. I'm not an expert on the subject but it seems to me that if installing a more efficient tail motor causes the 4-1 to fail then there are other more serious issues that need to be dealt with. I'm sorry to say, it sounds to me like another 4-1 problem. I wonder if there's a tech support or something for diagnosing the problem. When mine went out, it was the gyro side that failed. Yours sounds like the receiver side.
Sorry to hear about your heli troubles. Just learning to fly one of these things is hard enough without all the 4-1 problems.
You're not the first person I've heard having problems with the V2 4-1. I'm wondering if the change from 7.4v to 11.1v is stressing the unit. I'm not an expert on the subject but it seems to me that if installing a more efficient tail motor causes the 4-1 to fail then there are other more serious issues that need to be dealt with. I'm sorry to say, it sounds to me like another 4-1 problem. I wonder if there's a tech support or something for diagnosing the problem. When mine went out, it was the gyro side that failed. Yours sounds like the receiver side.
Tinkman
I think you're right about the receiver. I removed the tail system (motor + boom and wires) and installed the entire tail system from my old HB and the problem with the 4 in 1 persists. I've only had the new HB for 2 weeks now. I plan to call the seller's customer support tomorrow afternoon and see what they can tell me.
-jd
11-23-2009, 01:11 AM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
ORIGINAL: Hawksbill
Thanks, Tinkman.
I think you're right about the receiver. I removed the tail system (motor + boom and wires) and installed the entire tail system from my old HB and the problem with the 4 in 1 persists. I've only had the new HB for 2 weeks now. I plan to call the seller's customer support tomorrow afternoon and see what they can tell me.
ORIGINAL: Tinkman
Hey JD,
Sorry to hear about your heli troubles. Just learning to fly one of these things is hard enough without all the 4-1 problems.
You're not the first person I've heard having problems with the V2 4-1. I'm wondering if the change from 7.4v to 11.1v is stressing the unit. I'm not an expert on the subject but it seems to me that if installing a more efficient tail motor causes the 4-1 to fail then there are other more serious issues that need to be dealt with. I'm sorry to say, it sounds to me like another 4-1 problem. I wonder if there's a tech support or something for diagnosing the problem. When mine went out, it was the gyro side that failed. Yours sounds like the receiver side.
Sorry to hear about your heli troubles. Just learning to fly one of these things is hard enough without all the 4-1 problems.
You're not the first person I've heard having problems with the V2 4-1. I'm wondering if the change from 7.4v to 11.1v is stressing the unit. I'm not an expert on the subject but it seems to me that if installing a more efficient tail motor causes the 4-1 to fail then there are other more serious issues that need to be dealt with. I'm sorry to say, it sounds to me like another 4-1 problem. I wonder if there's a tech support or something for diagnosing the problem. When mine went out, it was the gyro side that failed. Yours sounds like the receiver side.
Tinkman
I think you're right about the receiver. I removed the tail system (motor + boom and wires) and installed the entire tail system from my old HB and the problem with the 4 in 1 persists. I've only had the new HB for 2 weeks now. I plan to call the seller's customer support tomorrow afternoon and see what they can tell me.
I've been following developments - and I only have one thing to add. Electronics usually go out rather fast. One moment it is working - the next not! So it was probably the motor dying at first, and when it wasn't changed out - the 4in1 got damaged in the receiver area.....[sm=confused_smile.gif]
......Just my 2c worth
Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
P.S. Sorry I'm to late to really help out
P.P.S. Please keep us informed of how your customer support call goes.....
11-23-2009, 12:33 PM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
ORIGINAL: Tinkman
OK Dave,
I got my 3D Super Skids yesterday and spent today engineering a solution for the tail boom grip. I mounted everything and after two iterations prototyped the new grip. I think I have a fairly solid design. I'll be testing it over the Thanksgiving holiday. I'll let you know what I find, but I'm pretty sure, besides any small refinements, this will do the trick. If the design works out I'll put it into production.
Let me know what you think.
Tinkman
OK Dave,
I got my 3D Super Skids yesterday and spent today engineering a solution for the tail boom grip. I mounted everything and after two iterations prototyped the new grip. I think I have a fairly solid design. I'll be testing it over the Thanksgiving holiday. I'll let you know what I find, but I'm pretty sure, besides any small refinements, this will do the trick. If the design works out I'll put it into production.
Let me know what you think.
Tinkman
11-23-2009, 12:42 PM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
ORIGINAL: Hawksbill
I studied it for a bit and saw that, after about 20 seconds of flight time the 4 in 1 would flash and turn off, shutting down the motors. The motors seem fine and the problem ONCE AGAIN seems to be the 4 in 1.
My question is, is it a coincidence that my 4 in 1 failed again after I installed the upgrade DD motor, or did upgrading the DD motor cause this problem with the 4 in 1?
Later this morning I plan to remove the entire tail boom section and reinstall the old boom/motor from my last HB and see if the 4 in 1 works with that one. Other than that, I'm not sure how to proceed. I've already spent so much on this heli, I'm really hesitant to spend another $50 on another 4 in 1 and hope for the best.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
-jd
I studied it for a bit and saw that, after about 20 seconds of flight time the 4 in 1 would flash and turn off, shutting down the motors. The motors seem fine and the problem ONCE AGAIN seems to be the 4 in 1.
My question is, is it a coincidence that my 4 in 1 failed again after I installed the upgrade DD motor, or did upgrading the DD motor cause this problem with the 4 in 1?
Later this morning I plan to remove the entire tail boom section and reinstall the old boom/motor from my last HB and see if the 4 in 1 works with that one. Other than that, I'm not sure how to proceed. I've already spent so much on this heli, I'm really hesitant to spend another $50 on another 4 in 1 and hope for the best.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
-jd
As Tink said, swapping a better motor wouldn't (shouldn't) do it. The v2 comes with a 3S lipo right? So the voltage shouldn't be problem.
Is the 4in1 loosing binding, or is it loosing power?
Does the 4in1 shut off when it's just sitting there, or just in flight? Double check the battery connection (especially the wires that go into the 4in1). Could be a loose/broken wire.
-Dave
11-26-2009, 06:36 PM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
Hey guys I wanted to get on here and let ya know how its been going.. I got my extreme DD tail today. I put it on and wow.. I fly indoors most of the time and it helped it good.. Because its a smaller place I get some wind moveing around and it holds the noise so much better.. Dosent drift as much as it did with the stock tail.. It is a little louder and im not sure but are the blades that come with the kit the best ones.. In otherwords do they make different ones longer shorter with a different pitch or is what blade extreme sends with the kit good enough.. Second and I soldered it twice to make sure I had a good connection but man this motor gets hot.. A lot hotter than the stock one did anyway.. Its not messing up or anything but it gets hot.. Thats why I ask is there a different tail prop that might make that motor run cooler??.. Is it normal for it to run hotter than the stock one ?? And TINKMANhow can I go about getting one of your heat sinks asap. Paypal , credit card, just let me know cause if it is normal than that heatsink is a must.... Flying though has been going great... Oh I also trimmed a little over 1inch off of the tail and the CG is real good..
11-26-2009, 07:54 PM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
ORIGINAL: Taz169
Hey guys I wanted to get on here and let ya know how its been going.. I got my extreme DD tail today. I put it on and wow.. I fly indoors most of the time and it helped it good.. Because its a smaller place I get some wind moveing around and it holds the noise so much better.. Dosent drift as much as it did with the stock tail.. It is a little louder and im not sure but are the blades that come with the kit the best ones.. In otherwords do they make different ones longer shorter with a different pitch or is what blade extreme sends with the kit good enough.. Second and I soldered it twice to make sure I had a good connection but man this motor gets hot.. A lot hotter than the stock one did anyway.. Its not messing up or anything but it gets hot.. Thats why I ask is there a different tail prop that might make that motor run cooler??.. Is it normal for it to run hotter than the stock one ?? And TINKMAN how can I go about getting one of your heat sinks asap. Paypal , credit card, just let me know cause if it is normal than that heatsink is a must.... Flying though has been going great... Oh I also trimmed a little over 1inch off of the tail and the CG is real good..
Hey guys I wanted to get on here and let ya know how its been going.. I got my extreme DD tail today. I put it on and wow.. I fly indoors most of the time and it helped it good.. Because its a smaller place I get some wind moveing around and it holds the noise so much better.. Dosent drift as much as it did with the stock tail.. It is a little louder and im not sure but are the blades that come with the kit the best ones.. In otherwords do they make different ones longer shorter with a different pitch or is what blade extreme sends with the kit good enough.. Second and I soldered it twice to make sure I had a good connection but man this motor gets hot.. A lot hotter than the stock one did anyway.. Its not messing up or anything but it gets hot.. Thats why I ask is there a different tail prop that might make that motor run cooler??.. Is it normal for it to run hotter than the stock one ?? And TINKMAN how can I go about getting one of your heat sinks asap. Paypal , credit card, just let me know cause if it is normal than that heatsink is a must.... Flying though has been going great... Oh I also trimmed a little over 1inch off of the tail and the CG is real good..
...sounds like you have been getting value ATM. I haven't had ANY time due to the 10 school kids that I have been "babysitting" (it is actually community service) at work. After hours I just collapse into a chair in front of the TV with a drink. I don't know how teachers do it during school hours now
Anyway, [link=http://home.earthlink.net/~joaquintinker/tail_motor_heat_sink.htm]here[/link] is a link to Tinkman's website where you can order a heatsink (and pay with paypal
), and yes, it is normal to get pretty d@mn hot without any type of heat-distributer
Tell me if you find a suitable tail rotor apart from Xtremes - I don't know of any others yet.......
Please could you provide me with a pic of your trimmed boom?
Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
P.S. Tinkmans email address is within link at the bottom of the page for any questions.
P.P.S. The reason that I am answering Tinkman's question so well is that I highly recommend this product - I am running one and have another ready to fit to my second Xtreme DD motor when the Esky tail motor finally decides to die
11-27-2009, 05:34 PM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
Thanks Peter.. I will go to his webpage here in a sec.. As soon as my wife gets back with the camera I will take a pic and post it up.. I cut off exactly 1 1/8 of an inch off the tail..I am thinking about painting the tail fin and tail prop green to match my stock canopy.. I like haveing a little color on the tail.. Besides from that I didnt do anything else special. The tail on the V2 is metal and was real easy to cut with a dremel... That has been the biggest improvement thing ive done. It makes it fly a lot better holds the nose better and all that.. Just gets hot but I will go to tinkman and get that helped out... AND now thanks Tinkman ordered a heat sink from ya...
11-27-2009, 08:51 PM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
ORIGINAL: Taz169
Thanks pgroom 68.. I will go to his webpage here in a sec.. As soon as my wife gets back with the camera I will take a pic and post it up.. I cut off exactly 1 1/8 of an inch off the tail.. I am thinking about painting the tail fin and tail prop green to match my stock canopy.. I like haveing a little color on the tail.. Besides from that I didnt do anything else special. The tail on the V2 is metal and was real easy to cut with a dremel... That has been the biggest improvement thing ive done. It makes it fly a lot better holds the noise better and all that.. Just gets hot but I will go to tinkman and get that helped out... AND now thanks Tinkman ordered a heat sink from ya...[img][/img]
Thanks pgroom 68.. I will go to his webpage here in a sec.. As soon as my wife gets back with the camera I will take a pic and post it up.. I cut off exactly 1 1/8 of an inch off the tail.. I am thinking about painting the tail fin and tail prop green to match my stock canopy.. I like haveing a little color on the tail.. Besides from that I didnt do anything else special. The tail on the V2 is metal and was real easy to cut with a dremel... That has been the biggest improvement thing ive done. It makes it fly a lot better holds the noise better and all that.. Just gets hot but I will go to tinkman and get that helped out... AND now thanks Tinkman ordered a heat sink from ya...[img][/img]
Please call me Peter - pgroom is my father (Philip). The nose holding improvement is probably due to the stronger tail motor - [sm=72_72.gif]but it might be also because of the trimmed boom, that is why I asked for a pic
You will not regret getting a VERY efficient heatsink for that tail motor
- I just hope that the heat now has not affected it for the future!Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
11-27-2009, 10:51 PM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
Peter you think that the shorter tail migh make it a little more stable.. The stronger motor seems to react quicker than what the stock one did.. Either wayI like it
and I will go ahead and order an extra motor if you think it might die a little early.. I have only done one 1000mah batt pack at a time and let it cool aftereach but it has gotten pretty hot.. Thanks for the info Peter... Is there any break in procedure you should do for that little tail motor...
11-29-2009, 02:24 AM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
ORIGINAL: Taz169
Peter you think that the shorter tail migh make it a little more stable.. The stronger motor seems to react quicker than what the stock one did.. Either way I like it [img][/img] and I will go ahead and order an extra motor if you think it might die a little early.. I have only done one 1000mah batt pack at a time and let it cool after each but it has gotten pretty hot.. Thanks for the info Peter... Is there any break in procedure you should do for that little tail motor...
Peter you think that the shorter tail migh make it a little more stable.. The stronger motor seems to react quicker than what the stock one did.. Either way I like it [img][/img] and I will go ahead and order an extra motor if you think it might die a little early.. I have only done one 1000mah batt pack at a time and let it cool after each but it has gotten pretty hot.. Thanks for the info Peter... Is there any break in procedure you should do for that little tail motor...
Being a brushed motor there is always a run-in benefit - bedding the carbon brushes in the exact shape of the comm. gives a better, cleaner contact resulting in more efficient, stronger, longer-lasting, higher-powered, longer lipos and flight times - the list goes on!
I am thinking that there is a sweet spot for stability where the boom length (as long as it clears the main rotors and tail rotor planes
) will have the opposite effect and make it more spritely and quicker in "actioning" inputs actually. I'm sure there are many other factors that have more influence over this lag time (between inputs and action), and am compiling a short list in my head to offer as things to try.Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
P.S. On the list are: flybar stiff-ness, paddle weight, total rotational head mass, and blade type & shape.
11-29-2009, 03:31 PM
#318
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RE: Honey Bee FP
ORIGINAL: Taz169
Is there any break in procedure you should do for that little tail motor...
Is there any break in procedure you should do for that little tail motor...
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5628228/tm.htm]Brushed Motor break-in[/link]
-Dave
11-29-2009, 03:43 PM
#319
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RE: Honey Bee FP
ORIGINAL: pgroom_68
I am thinking that there is a sweet spot for stability where the boom length (as long as it clears the main rotors and tail rotor planes) will have the opposite effect and make it more spritely and quicker in ''actioning'' inputs actually. I'm sure there are many other factors that have more influence over this lag time (between inputs and action), and am compiling a short list in my head to offer as things to try.
I am thinking that there is a sweet spot for stability where the boom length (as long as it clears the main rotors and tail rotor planes
) will have the opposite effect and make it more spritely and quicker in ''actioning'' inputs actually. I'm sure there are many other factors that have more influence over this lag time (between inputs and action), and am compiling a short list in my head to offer as things to try.The whole purpose for the tail motor is to counter the torque produced by the main rotor. Torque is equal to Force * distance. With a stronger motor you can bring the tail rotor closer to produce the same amount of torque to counter the main rotor (as Peter said, as long as the two don't collide!).
The helicopters angular momentum is a function of it's moment of Inertia (I) * angular velocity (w). For the sake of just the tail rotor, I=m*r*r. So by bringing the tail rotor closer, you decrease the moment of Inertial and increase it's angular velocity (it can spin faster).
Think of an ice skater (or you in a spinning chair) going from arms out, to arms in. Their (your) rotate increase as you bring in your arms.
-Dave
11-29-2009, 05:03 PM
#320
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RE: Honey Bee FP
Ok now thats good info.. 2 questions 1 can you break in a motor that has been run some.. Say my new tail motor has maybe 6 or 7 1000mah packs on it.. Would it bennefit some if i went ahead and tried the breaking inthing.. I will break in in my replacement motor as soon as I get it.. Second if you were breaking in a main moto would you use 2 or 3 AA batts.. Thanks guys for the help....
11-30-2009, 02:04 AM
#321
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RE: Honey Bee FP
I raced slot cars 20 years ago. Some guys were doing water break-ins then. I tried it a couple times but never saw any advantage. There were tricks to getting motors to run faster (that don't apply to helis), but they weren't break-in related. I won most of the races I was in, including Nationals, and none of the top drivers used water to break in their motors. At one of the National races, reps from Parma and Champion were there and both said they definitely don't recommend water. But, there are comm drops available that will help to seat the brushes on a new motor. I know Parma used to make it, and I found some here: http://www.slickzero.com/page/SRHP/PROD/Oil/SZ004
Some guys swear by breaking in motors with water and if they really believe it helps, they should do whatever makes them happy.
I think low voltage and comm drops seat the brushes better, but I still never saw any advantage in performance or longevity.
About 3 years ago here (at least I think it was on this forum) the dragonfly 4 and blade cp threads were very active. The DF4 had a 10.5" (267mm) and the BCP has a 12" (305mm) tail boom. In the DF4 forum it was the current rage to use a longer tail boom for "better tail authority". At the exact same time in the BCP forum it was the rage to use a shorter tail boom for (you guessed it), "better tail authority".
I think the stock tail set-ups work fine the shorter tail. CP helis are likely to put more and faster pressure on the tail, so longer booms work better. The HBFP (V1) used a 12" boom because it shared the parts with the CP2 model.
Some guys swear by breaking in motors with water and if they really believe it helps, they should do whatever makes them happy.
I think low voltage and comm drops seat the brushes better, but I still never saw any advantage in performance or longevity.
About 3 years ago here (at least I think it was on this forum) the dragonfly 4 and blade cp threads were very active. The DF4 had a 10.5" (267mm) and the BCP has a 12" (305mm) tail boom. In the DF4 forum it was the current rage to use a longer tail boom for "better tail authority". At the exact same time in the BCP forum it was the rage to use a shorter tail boom for (you guessed it), "better tail authority".
I think the stock tail set-ups work fine the shorter tail. CP helis are likely to put more and faster pressure on the tail, so longer booms work better. The HBFP (V1) used a 12" boom because it shared the parts with the CP2 model.
11-30-2009, 02:15 AM
#322
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RE: Honey Bee FP
ORIGINAL: Taz169
Ok now thats good info.. 2 questions 1 can you break in a motor that has been run some.. Say my new tail motor has maybe 6 or 7 1000mah packs on it.. Would it bennefit some if i went ahead and tried the breaking in thing.. I will break in in my replacement motor as soon as I get it.. Second if you were breaking in a main moto would you use 2 or 3 AA batts.. Thanks guys for the help....
Ok now thats good info.. 2 questions 1 can you break in a motor that has been run some.. Say my new tail motor has maybe 6 or 7 1000mah packs on it.. Would it bennefit some if i went ahead and tried the breaking in thing.. I will break in in my replacement motor as soon as I get it.. Second if you were breaking in a main moto would you use 2 or 3 AA batts.. Thanks guys for the help....
I find that a very difficult question to answer without seeing the motor in action as it is on the "border" now. I say "seeing" because one of the obvious changes of a run-in motor over its non- counterpart is the lack of visible sparking (best when viewed in dim light
). Not having seen the tail motor running when it was brand new (and probably sparking excessively) gives me no base-line either[
]I recommend you use 2 x AA batteries (giving 3V) for 2 hours with your main brushed motor.
It's not that critical (whether 2 or 3 AAs are used) - as long as the combined voltage is 1/3 to 1/2 the operating voltage.
Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
11-30-2009, 02:24 AM
#323
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RE: Honey Bee FP
ORIGINAL: GTX SlotCar
I raced slot cars 20 years ago. Some guys were doing water break-ins then. I tried it a couple times but never saw any advantage. There were tricks to getting motors to run faster (that don't apply to helis), but they weren't break-in related. I won most of the races I was in, including Nationals, and none of the top drivers used water to break in their motors. At one of the National races, reps from Parma and Champion were there and both said they definitely don't recommend water. But, there are comm drops available that will help to seat the brushes on a new motor. I know Parma used to make it, and I found some here: http://www.slickzero.com/page/SRHP/PROD/Oil/SZ004
Some guys swear by breaking in motors with water and if they really believe it helps, they should do whatever makes them happy.
I think low voltage and comm drops seat the brushes better, but I still never saw any advantage in performance or longevity.
About 3 years ago here (at least I think it was on this forum) the dragonfly 4 and blade cp threads were very active. The DF4 had a 10.5'' (267mm) and the BCP has a 12'' (305mm) tail boom. In the DF4 forum it was the current rage to use a longer tail boom for ''better tail authority''. At the exact same time in the BCP forum it was the rage to use a shorter tail boom for (you guessed it), ''better tail authority''.
I think the stock tail set-ups work fine the shorter tail. CP helis are likely to put more and faster pressure on the tail, so longer booms work better. The HBFP (V1) used a 12'' boom because it shared the parts with the CP2 model.
I raced slot cars 20 years ago. Some guys were doing water break-ins then. I tried it a couple times but never saw any advantage. There were tricks to getting motors to run faster (that don't apply to helis), but they weren't break-in related. I won most of the races I was in, including Nationals, and none of the top drivers used water to break in their motors. At one of the National races, reps from Parma and Champion were there and both said they definitely don't recommend water. But, there are comm drops available that will help to seat the brushes on a new motor. I know Parma used to make it, and I found some here: http://www.slickzero.com/page/SRHP/PROD/Oil/SZ004
Some guys swear by breaking in motors with water and if they really believe it helps, they should do whatever makes them happy.
I think low voltage and comm drops seat the brushes better, but I still never saw any advantage in performance or longevity.
About 3 years ago here (at least I think it was on this forum) the dragonfly 4 and blade cp threads were very active. The DF4 had a 10.5'' (267mm) and the BCP has a 12'' (305mm) tail boom. In the DF4 forum it was the current rage to use a longer tail boom for ''better tail authority''. At the exact same time in the BCP forum it was the rage to use a shorter tail boom for (you guessed it), ''better tail authority''.
I think the stock tail set-ups work fine the shorter tail. CP helis are likely to put more and faster pressure on the tail, so longer booms work better. The HBFP (V1) used a 12'' boom because it shared the parts with the CP2 model.
I was around and reading the DF#4 thread then also
, but forgot all about that boom-length "trend" - ah how time flies (*sigh*)Anyway, thanks heaps 'cause that sure cleared up as few things in my mind.
Gonna get me some of them comm drops local to me....
Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
11-30-2009, 10:30 AM
#324
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RE: Honey Bee FP
Thanks Peter.. Yea the tail motor I have is sparking some on the inside I can see it through the cooling slit in the motor.. I have a new motor on the way and I will break it in. I am going to go ahead and also run this motor through the break in procedure quess it wouldnt hurt it.. Now as for the tail boom and cutting the tail boom.. The Extreme DD tail kit first of all is longer than the stock setup. Thats whyI had to cut my boom.. The weight isnt that much more but with all the mounting pieces and all its longer than the stock setup.. And moved the motor farther back than stock..My motor now with the tail cut sits maybe an 1/8 of an inch closer to the helicopter over whatthe stock one did.. So the motor distance is almost the same as stock.. Thats wereI have with the DD tail now.. But the DD tail mount and all the hardwareis longer so I had to cut the tail 1 and 1/8 of an inch.. Hope that makes since... And I have a Tinkman heat sink comeing soon soall will be good... Thanks guys and happy flying....
11-30-2009, 10:47 AM
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RE: Honey Bee FP
Hey Peter,
Thanks for helping Taz with his questions and theorder, I was out of town.
While I was out the weather was greatand I got a chance to really test out that new tail boom grip with the Super Skids outdoors. Everything held up really well. I even introduced my brother to flying, so it took a beating. So far so good! Time to start thinking about production.
Tinkman
Thanks for helping Taz with his questions and theorder, I was out of town.
While I was out the weather was greatand I got a chance to really test out that new tail boom grip with the Super Skids outdoors. Everything held up really well. I even introduced my brother to flying, so it took a beating. So far so good! Time to start thinking about production.
Tinkman