hairy46

My Feedback: (1)

If it takes all of us to fight to fly then we need to do it! There is power in numbers!

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

But that freedom wasn't earned by everybody taking action on their own. They had to unite, organize, find leaders, and those leaders had to act, encourage, and lead. And when the shooting stopped, they still had many people that didn't like the result (Shays rebellion for example). And then after all was said and done, even the people that were rooting for the King became citizens of a country. And they weren't finished arguing about much of that 80 years later when some of them tried to secede. In fact, its still not settled on many fronts.

So go ahead, keep complaining that the only organization representing us isn't representing us. As for me, there isn't a better game in town.

Brd

The Toolman

Your right, that why they named the game "Monopoly".....hehe

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I disagree... there are many cases of individuals as well as others collaborating to maintain freedom...not just blind faith given to one "self proclaimed authority"

Problem is that many have resigned themselves as it to allow the only game in town the reins...and many seem to be happy with that...if not even a great proponent of that philosophy. I happen to think it takes more than just that.

Now ,if you think we should just wait and see what AMA directs us to do then fine...but I am of the opinion AMA's dog in the fight is more about "membership" and all that that entails... of course that is great sells tool but not what is most important...

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

Many forfiet freedom while others fight to keep it for them....sort of backwards to my thoughts. Yet it still goes on today. All should at least know how important freedom is and fight to maintain it. I am sure the sitters will continue to watch the workers.

It is hard to state our opinions about what the AMA is doing, because we all of a sudden become anti AMAers and AMA bashers, etc. Some can get by with it, while others cannot.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

You got that right!

Our AMA has kept us in the dark and the first defense line is "we agreed to" not discuss. They should never agree to such...Yet they want to continue negotiations in "our best interest" but we don't even know what that means...we are just supposed to accept that without any question... In this forum, we have a few here that claim knowledge of much inside "word" that merely seems to only have the design to make us accept whatever comes out of the pipe and herald the AMA as the savior... Horse hockey...

As for as supporting AMA, I am a staunch supporter but it ends at the very point it diverges to only their self interest...

Silent-AV8R

At which point they would have been shown the door, and how exactly would that have helped anyone??

cj_rumley

It would have been beneficial to AMA to not be identified as a co-author of the pile of crap that is the sUAS ARC Recommendations. AMA was invited as an expert witness as to what a model airplane is, and AMA participation was appropriate only to the extent of that purpose. That purpose was changed ad hoc, with the consent of the committee chairman. That resulted in AMA participating, while considerably outgunned by manned aircraft interests, in developing regulations for model aircraft operation, a purpose far afield from the stated purpose of the working group: to propose less restrictive regulation for small UAS operators that could not practically meet the requirements previously developed for operation of UAS as a general class.
AMA took a butter knife to a gunfight, and stayed the course. It would have been a wiser choice to take the door option.

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

I know I'll regret asking this question, but how can an organization that is made up of its members NOT act in the organizations own self interest? In this case, the organizations best interest coincide with the interests of those who will reap the benefit, members or not.

Or do you actually believe that those running the AMA are only concerned with their own personal advancement? If that's what you believe, despite all evidence to the contrary, then no matter what the AMA does, you'll be disappointed. You will always see the glass as being half empty.

Brad

The Toolman

Thats also liable to be a big lie they are telling their members. They might not want the members to know how the ama might be agreeing to things for their own (ama's) good, an not so much the members good. Stop an think, the govt lies about things everyday, so do the car companies, the unions, heck anytime you get a bunch of people together with just a few in charge, somebody is gonna get screwed

I still say that when you get that much of other peoples $ to control, things can go haywire pretty easy.

Plus I still think there is something fishy about the magazine operation, and have always thought that, even the years when I was ama

The Toolman

Your right, you will.....[8D]

let me just list a few

The Govt
Your local politicians
GM
The catholic priests an little boys

I could go on an on, but my keyboard is getting low on ink......

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

I imagine the list could be about a zillion pages long

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

My point, apparently missed, is that INDIVIDUALS in an organization may act counter to the ORGANIZATIONS best interest, but those people here that want to bash the AMA keep saying the organization (AMA) is doing such and so. If they don't like an INDIVIDUALS actions, then attribute those actions to the INDIVIDUAL, not the ORGANIZATION.

Brad

cj_rumley

Hang in there Brad, you come across as well informed and persuasive in your arguments, so no regrets, OK?

As to your Q. of the instant, bear in mind that AMA is a tax-advantaged 501 (C) (3) org, and the rest of the taxpayers in the US bear its share of the tax burden, trusting in AMA claims that it provide services for the public good. From all appearances, AMA seems to have abandoned the public interest, and early on wrt to pending FAA regulation retreated to a position of promoting special privileges in the form of exceptions from regulation for the benefit of its own dues-paying members (and the 'wink-wink' members of other model aircraft oriented CBOs).

FWIW, I take that positioning as counterproductive to its own and its members interests, not just negligent as to the obligation to non-members amongst the tax paying public. It's going to be a hard sell convincing FAA that participating in AMA's TBD programs makes their members operations of model aircraft any less of a risk to navigation in the NAS than that presented by non-participants. There are no facts in evidence to support that........... sales pitch. I say 'sales pitch' because there are no tangible, measurable, demonstrable facts to back up the assertion known to me - if you know of any, please elucidate. If a Dept of the US govt is going to take the rare step of granting special privilege to members of private organization, it will only occur for compelling reasons. There is no faint hint of a legitimate reason for doing so here, much less compelling reasons. AMA's best ammo is the good record of modelers (all of them) over several decades in acting responsibly and avoiding conflict with regulated traffic in the NAS.

The good record established by the general population of modelers is measurable and quantifiable, and FAA is already aware of it and cannot ignore it. People talk about strength in numbers in the politik arena. What bothers me is that AMA is effectively slashing those numbers to a small fraction of the whole that are responsible for establishing the positive history by arguing for singling out that segment that is its own members for privileged treatment. What sense does that make?[/quote]



That seems a personal Q for LCS, so no comment from me.

Cletus

The Toolman

Glad ya brought that up, I do miss my parents around this time of year.[sm=disappointed.gif]

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

This is where I think you and other have made an incorrect interpretation of what was proposed in the ARC recommendation. The AMA is simply trying to maintain current flying practices, but the FAA is trying to clamp down.

What the CBO approach is trying to provide is a self regulating approach that provides flyers with some additional latitude when they voluntarily comply with the standards established by that organization. The AMA, in the interest of the AMA members, is working to establish a set of standards that the FAA would find acceptable. And people like the flyer being talked about in this thread certainly demonstrate an individual that is not operating in accordance with the standards the AMA has already established, making a pretty compelling argument that exempting the general public without such standards may not be a good idea from the FAA's perspective.

Compliance with standards is more than just paying dues. For example, how many people, companies, factories, etc, comply with the Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code without belonging to ANSI/ASME? Believe it or not, those are not Government organizations.

Brad

tinner1

I am at a quandry as to how this answers my question as to what any individual has done "as an individual" that is better than what the AMA is doing...Posting what you think is wrong with what the AMA is doing doesn't count. People sit around the coffee machine every day complaining about this and that. Does ANYTHING get accomplished, NO! Same thing here. There is strength in numbers. Individuals can be easily beaten down. There's all kinds of posts about "freedom" but none of what any "individual" has done. The AMA is a "group" of individuals" after the same good. In this case the AMA represents the views of the individual members. NO individuals were allowed to participate in ANY form in the formation of the new regs, but the AMA was allowed to at least sit in. Maybe all the hate should be directed at the proper source the FAA and the idiots like the ones posting these videos.

And as to there being no competition, why don't you anti-AMA people start another organization? No wait...It's been TRIED before and failed to get off the ground. Just keep knocking the AMA. THAT'LL get things done! Don't join or get involved..Just sit back and complain...

EDIT...I added the "BOLD" above to clarify what some tried to twist my post to mean... Anyone who knows anything about what went on with the AMA and FAA they would have known the AMA didn't have any "input" into the regs formation. In FACT the AMA wasn't even allowed to say what went on in those meetings. HISTORY 101, plain and simple...

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Easy fix. Do what our government officials do everytime they open their mouths. Lie, say you will, then spill it.

The Toolman

Yep the ama spent a lot of the members money to beat them down

804

My Feedback: (1)

One can only hope.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Is that right??? Hmmm...so you admit AMA help form the new regs...interesting.

radamansx12

My Feedback: (13)

Some of you all need come back to reality. All of this parroting and conjecture about things (new FAA rules) that only a hand full of people, none of which are on this forum , know about is futile and at best. People using RC planes to deliver explosives is just as possible as using RC cars or RC boats or RC submarines yet you don't see any of those guys/gals freaking out about big brother shutting down their hobby. Come on people. The FPV guys aren't showing evil-doers anything they haven't already considered.

Go build/repair a plane. Go teach strangers how wonderful this hobby is. Stop making a mountain out of a mole hill.....that is all.

The Toolman

I believe it's 3 now

deadstick8409

My Feedback: (2)

I think you are missing the boat here. The issue is not terrorist using a delivery system, the issue is models in the National Airspace System. Terrorist will do what they will, and no changes to the CFR will change that.

cj_rumley

Borrowing from an astute observation made by deadstick8409 above,
Idiots in New York will do what they will, and no changes to the CFR will change that.