Oberst

No problem. I study a lot of pictures and do a lot of reading when it comes to starting a project. I also ordered that VHS tape on "The fabulous Gee Bees."


What I read about the subject, Bayles won the larger and more powerful engine in a coin toss with another Gee Bee owner, so the Granville Brothers gave the new engine to be installed in Bayles Gee Bee Z. ( Note the bigger Cowl)

In the pictures you see with the bigger cowl is with that new engine, and it was used for his final fatal flight speed record. In the other pictures you see the smaller cowls, and that had the stock Wasp Engine that he used to race with.

On the gas cap issue, Bayles over shot the runway a few weeks prior damaging the right wing when he cartwheeled on it and flipped the plane. They did the repairs, but didn't completely check the wing for damage inside the covering.

It was ruled later on that the gas cap had nothing to do with the crash, it was the damaged wing that when massive loads were applied, it snapped the wing right down one of the wing ribs. If you look at the video, you can see nothing was left of the Gee Bee. I don't know of anything today that could structurally handle a 300mph crash!

The more I write emails to historians about this subject, the more they believe that the cap broke off and hit Bayles just before hitting the ground. Crash investigations were very primitive to what we have now. Today we would have picked up every little piece we could find and then reconstructed the aircraft finding exactly what went wrong.

What is sad is the crash wasn't Bayles fault, but the blame should go to the groundcrew ( In theory) in charge of his airplane. They probably bent under the pressure of the Granville Brothers Company to break that speed record before anyone else did it, or it was plain negligence on both parties. Who knows right?

If you believe in the laws of physics, then you would believe it is impossibe for a Bumble Bee to fly.

Actually the Gee Bee is a fantastic flying aircraft in the right hands. But don't forget, if we are talking RC or the full size, the Gee Bee is not for beginners or the lower intermediate Sunday flyer. It is a high preformance aircraft even for todays piston powered standards.

That's my take on it.


Pete

capnduane

Pete, I agree about the wing breaking, and that was the cause of the loss of the Gee Bee Z. If you watch the video carefully, it is obvious what happened. I have found the Z to be a great flying aircraft, but it is not a beginners craft! Looking at the 3 view in Profile Publications #51 "The Gee Bee Racers", 18" seems about correct for the spread on the gear. The gear as set by Seagull is at 14", I don't know why they did that? I think moving the gear out wider will help the ground handling quite a bit.

Oberst

Yes the wheel pants looks to be slightly wider apart in the black and white pictures. My Gee Bee just arrived at my LHS and I'm picking it up this Tuesday at the latest, I expect my money to arrive by Friday, so I haven't got a personal look at the wings yet.

So to widen the gear, do you think it will need a total strip down to be able to do it correctly? If so I'll wait to do it when I'm ready to do the modifications for real and not just detail it like I plan. Like my Fokker DVII, I don't tend to "Bash" the plane until I have to recover or repair the plane, then I'll strip everything off and do it up right. I usually don't liike modifying a ARF when it's brand new unless it can be done without butchering it. My Dr1 on the other hand wasn't in flying condition, so it made sence to me to make a project out of it.

My plans are the same with this, when I crack it up or if the covering starts to get bad, then it will be time to strip it down to its bare bones and make the changes.

Jesus, that's 2" shorter on each side than what it's supposed to be. Strange!


Pete

Oberst

I was looking around the web and I saw this. See pictures below:


I'm sure the Russians called the design their own, but it looks an awful like the Gee Bee- ya think?


Pete

capnduane

Ah yes, the polikarpov I-16, first flown, 1933. State of the art when first built, with retractable undercarrage, it was the fighter most encountered by the Germans when they attacked the Soviet Union, and thru 1942. Also was flown by the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War. Cool airplane, looks similar to the Z, for sure!

Oberst

Here's a link a link with more pictures of Lowell Bayles and his aircraft. One day I'd like to see his memorial and place of rest. On the Gee Bee Z, I guess there was a stainless steel rod advertisement on the wing? I guess it wasn't cable but rod! Holy moley, good thing I saw that or I would have used all support cables! Now I need to know what was cable, and what was rod. Details, details, details!!!!!

http://newtonil.com/lowell_bayles.html


Pete

PSJDBF

Hi Oberst, I think you'll find the big wheels if at a low inflation will elliminate alot of the bounce, I have had some less than perfect landings with mine & the wheels & aftermarket struts I have have absorbed it all with no complaints.
The aftermarket struts I fitted from unitracks international are oil dampened as well which I think helps alot as dont spring back out quickly after being compressed as spring types tend to, they release at a more controlled & steady rate.
Looking forward to seeing your build...lots of pictures please.
Cheers Steff.

Oberst

˙�unʇɹoɟ � �ɯ ʇsoɔ pןno� "ɹ�pun u�op pu�ן �ɥʇ " ɯoɹɟ buıɥʇ ʎu� buıʎnq ˙ןן�� s� uo �ʇ�ɯ oʇ s�ɔ�ɟɹns ʇ�ןɟ �ʌ�ɥ ʎ�ɥʇ ʇ�ɥʇ �ɹns �ʞ�ɯ ןן,ı pu� 'ɯ�ɥʇ uo ɹ�ʞɔoן p��ɹɥʇ �nןq �ʌ�ɥ ı �ɹns �ʞ�ɯ ןן,ı pu� ʎ�ʞ u�ןן� ʎɹ�ʌ� ʞɔ�ɥɔ '�ou ɹoɟ ɹ��b ʞɔoʇs �ɥʇ ɥʇı� ʞɹo� ןןı� ı ˙sb�ן ʇu�d �oןןoɥ ʎן�ʇ�ןdɯoɔ p�ɥ ɥɔıɥ� 1ɹ ��q ��b s�u�ןd ʇ��ɹb p�nuıʇuoɔsıp �ɥʇ ɹoɟ �p�ɯ �ɹ�� sʇnɹʇs ʇɹ�qoɹ �ɥʇ pu� 'ʇıןds �ɹ� z ��q ��b sıɥʇ uo sʇu�d ן��ɥ� �ɥʇ �sn�ɔ�q ʇıɟ ʇ,upןno� ʎ�ɥʇ ʇ�ɥʇ p�uɹ�ɔuoɔ ɯ� ı ɹ�ʌ��oɥ 'sʇnɹʇs ��q ��b ʇɹ�qoɹ �ɥʇ sı �sn p,ı s�uo ʎןuo �ɥʇ 'sʇnɹʇs �ɥʇ �bu�ɥɔ oʇ �ɹ�� ı ɟı ˙ɯ�ɥʇ uo �ɯ�u ʎɯ ɥʇı� sɥן ʎɯ ʇ� �ɹ� s�ɹıʇ �ןq�ʇ�ןɟuı �ɥʇ 's�ʎ

'ɟɟ�ʇs oןן�ɥ

For the rest of the world:

Hello Steff,

Yes, the inflatable tires are at my LHS with my name on them. If I were to change the struts, the only ones I'd use is the Robart Gee Bee Struts, however I am concerned that they wouldn't fit because the wheel pants on this Gee Bee Z are split, and the Robart Struts were made for the discontinued Great Planes Gee Bee R1- which had completely hollow pant leg. I will work with the stock gear for now, check every allen key and I'll make sure I have blue thread locker on them, and I'll make sure that they have flat surfaces to mate on as well. Buying any thing from " The land down under" would cost me a fortune.

To me it sounds as if the landing gear twists mostly because the allen keys are slipping on the landing gear rod. ( No, or little flat surfaces for the keys to grasp on) I'll have to take a look at them when I get the plane home. But don't forget, no matter what the gear, most stock gears can only handle so many bad landings and the bend or twist. I'll study it and see what I can come up with and make a few phone calls. It might be that the designers didn't expect people to put in engines larger than the FS or FA 150 in them and the weight of the airplane with a larger and heavier engine + bad landings all contribute making the landing gear to twist. Some ARF planes weren't ment to mod out with a larger engine than what was recommended?

I've been in a few arguments in the past trying to explain to people that some of us, including myself- is not smarter than the model designers, even though at times I like to think I am and like to push the design to its limits.

Don't take this wrong people, but if the manufacture says use a 120 or 150, I don't use a 180 or higher in most cases, unless I do a total bash and modification from bare bones and add alot of weight because of details. When I buy a ARF aircraft, I usually buy it for one of the engines I already have, and not the other way around. In this case I've noticed that everyone who had a gear problem was using a heavier and larger engine than what was suggested by Seagull? It's not a attack of any kind to anyone, its a possibility to ponder on if any of you has thought about it.

Has anyone complained to Seagull or Horizon about the issue of the struts slipping? Usually Seagull is very good about upgrading things when needed. They did it for the Seagull .91 Extra 260. The only defect with that plane was me flying it.

I should have the Gee Bee home this week, just waiting for my tax return to arrive. Already they are a little late with it. What else is new.

I will do my build here, and when I eventually do a complete custom bash in the future, I'll start a new build thread. Every ARF plane I buy, in the back of my mind I plan on scaling it out later on. But for now I just mostly fly it as is, and put minor details on it to make it look good or better without adding much weight if possible.


Pete

PSJDBF

Hi Pete,
I sent through some pictures of my gear set up to Seagull, as when they changed the wire gear for the strut they removed the rear bracing wire which I thought was a mistake as it keeps the gear from flexing back & the wheel collecting the back of the pant, & also helps to stop the twisting of the strut as I have them connected to the strut in a recess.
Steff.

Oberst

Steff, I guess you didn't get the Joke? Thanks for the pictures! I just got a brand new signed copy of "Those Incredible Gee Bees" this morning. Very educational video!

For my plane I'll also be using Dubro heavy duty nylon control arms, Great Planes fuel filter, RTL Faster button head screws and long servo mounting screws.

The Servo's I'll be using will be all JR- (5) DS811 and 1 NES 537 for the throttle. I'll also be using JR Sport RS600 for my receiver and a Hydrimax 2000mAh 4.5 battery and JR switch and charge jack and fuel dot. Everything inclding the extensions and y-cord is JR.

I plan on going to my LHS today and take some of the stuff I ordered out of storage, I'll be getting the plane any time now, just waiting for a check that's already due to arrive in the mail anytime. Me and the owner of the hobby shop are very good friends, and he doesn't mind holding my order for a few wekks if need be.

Everything is ready and set up for the build, I'm thinking of getting some vinyl rivets to add for detail. Just press and they stick, I was also told they are glow proof. They come in all colors including clear. Great for Mono and Ultra covered aircraft for those who are interested. To me it beats how some make rivets in my opinion and less of a hassle as well.

http://fritzdezings.com/products-main-decals.html


Pete

PSJDBF

HA ! yeah just re read it & got it , I have been flying through everything lately & am missing quite alot of things...I need to slow things down a little & chill ( easier said than done ).
Cheers & all the best for the coming build.
Steff.

Luftwaffe Oberst

Hey Steff, where did you get your turnbuckles, meaning do you know what brand? They look about the right scale.


Pete

PSJDBF

Hey Pete.
Sorry for the late reply,Discription below.

GRAUPNER TURNBUCKLES SMALL, BODY LENGTH 10MM (PACK OF 10)

Cheers Steff.

Oberst

Thanks Steff!

For those who are interested, I've started a build thread here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1612907 for this plane and I've already started some modifications. The width of the landing gear will be corrected when I eventually do a rebuild and total bash on the plane in the future when the time comes. But for now, I'm doing the light bashing that I think is needed to make the plane more on the scale side than it is- factory stock. I also included the fix to the landing gear issue that will be very helpful to those wishing to assemble the plane.

See you all there!


Pete

Luftwaffe Oberst

Thanks Steff! Just to let you all know I started my own build thread here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1612907 for this Gee Bee. I also included the fix for the landing gear struts that shoud be very helpful to anyone interested in assembling this aircraft. I've already started some minor modifications and don't plan to do a full "Bash" until a later date when the time comes I need to rebuild it, or when this airplane becomes discontinued etc. I've already started to make it more on the scale side than sport, and it's starting to look good in my opinion.

Hope to see you all there!


Pete

Luftwaffe Oberst

Thanks Steff! I want you all to know I've started a new build thread on this model Gee Bee Z, you can see my build thread here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1612907

In my build thread I have already started to modify the plane a little bit to make the plane more to scale than it was when we got this plane stock. In the build thread, I included a "How To" regards to fixing the landing gear issue, and how I did my modifications- so that anyone interested in assembling this plane they will know how to go about it.

I'm not doing a complete "Bash" but I am doing some modifications along with the improvements. I plan on doing a total bash when I have to rebuild the plane- or when this aircraft becomes discontinued as a ARF way down the road.

Feel free to chime in my build thread if you guys have any questions, or just stop in and say hello!

See you all there!


Pete

skystar

Hello,

I bougt the seagull gee bee to.

Now I want to have a methanol engine on it, just becouse of weight, silence, and easy to mount.

But now:

os 160 fx :beast but expensive
mvvs 160 :cheaper and a little lighter (with a walbro carb), but smaller prop size?
Irvine 150: A lot cheaper, weight about the same. Prop size?
Webra 25cc: ????
Moki 25CC???
moki 180 : 30cc but heavyer.

The os or the mvvs I should buy new. An irvine, webra and the moki's I could buy from a club member...

What's the best/ lightest solution. and wich prop size is the minimal for this engine cowl?
anny suggestions???

lomcevac540T

My Feedback: (1)

Anyone still messing with these? I just ordered one and will be getting it this weekend. Plan to install a Mintor 22cc gas engine. After reading through most of these posts... I am assuming the best way to affix the wheel pants is with the glassed in rods to attatch the wires to. Any other mods I need to do?

pacoflyer

My Feedback: (23)

A friend of mine installed a Saito 180 on his.
It balanced perfectly, sounded amazing and the plane flew great...

lomcevac540T

My Feedback: (1)

I test flew one for a guy a couple years ago and it flew great. I have wanted one ever since.

clockguypete

I am currently starting the build on a Seagull Gee Bee Z! I am going to power it with a saito 1.80 FS, and run a TME smart smoker pro on it! I purchased a new 1.80 from a fellow modeler, which had a slimline pitts style muffer, so I decided to make a smoke oil pre-heat copper tubing coil wrapped around the outside of the muffler nearest the header. My intention is to achieve the best possible chance at producing a good smoke trail with a four stroke, which generally runs cooler than an equivalent size gas engine. I drilled and tapped a hole a bit beyond the muffler pressure fitting, and installed a gas can type fuel fitting that has 1/2" nipple that extends inside the muffler. I then crimped the inside nipple fittting to create a slit opening, and drilled a couple of small holes with a pin drill in the sides of the nipple to produce a sprinkler head spray effect. Hopefully this will allow the smoke oil to vaporize quickly by hitting more surface area inside the hot muffler wall. I have never tried a smoke set up before, but I have read through many threads related to this feature, and designed my system based on a combination of the best ideas taken from several fellow modelers. Locating a long soft piece of copper tubing around town proved to be difficult, so I purchased a 2ft. x 3/32" copper/nickel brake line at an automotive store. I had to remove the threaded fittings with a dremmel cut off wheel, since I wanted to preserve the nice flared ends already formed. The muffler is only a 1" dia. so that's why I chose to wrap the tubing around the outside versus installing it on the inside, which would be to restrictive for proper exhaust flow. I was able to wrap the tubing around 6 times by hand without any anealing, and no kinks! I then installed two steel hose claps side by side to hold the coil tight to the muffler to insure good contact, and prevent vibration. The engine with smoke system is all set up on a nice PSP engine test stand now, and I will post the test results when finished. I thought it might be a good idea to try everything out before installing in the Gee Bee just in case there are modifications or adjustments needed. I have this mental picture of this cool plane flying full throttle, knife edge down the runway, with smoke on!!! Some of you might have a different mental picture of this attempt, but we won't even go there :-) Pete

maneba

Hi guys.
I'm working on my Gee-bee in these days.
Powered with an ASP 180 (that i'm converting to electronic ignition and gas).
Hitec HV digital servos all around.
I've bought dubro 5" inflatable wheels. I prefer more clearance from the ground and the 4,5" ones are smaller of the seagull original wheels.
Dubro 4,5" are 114 mm
Seagull wheels are 120 mm
Dubro 5" are 127 mm

Stefano.

clockguypete

Welcome to the post Maneba! Looking forward to your build, and if you have any new idea's how to reinforce or stabilize those oleo struts? I have read the entire thread a few times, and it seems this can be a trouble area if precautions are not taken. I will begin putting my GEE BEE Z together soon as well. My smoke system on the Satio 1.80 worked great when tested last Sunday. Pete

maneba

Hi Pete. I'll stabilize the struts using a solution of another guy. Something like this.

maneba

Today i've done the first step to convert my ASP 180 to gasoline.
In this step the engine is still running with nitro.
The next step consists in adding one or two head gaskets and feeding it with gas.
This is my solution for the pick-up sensor.
Stefano.
[link=http://www.youtube.com/embed/k51bCZCdpvw]Video[/link]