BKoz559

My Feedback: (3)

I had an experience in the past as a seller where someone complained about the item I shipped them and I ended up sending them a partial refund to keep the peace.  Hindsight is always 20/20 and looking back I realize that he was trying to either get more out of me or do what I did and give him some of his money back.  Basically he wanted a better deal!

You never know who the other person is, what their personality is like, etc...  You know the truth and you have proof to support yourself if a complaint is filed with Ebay.

Lastly, you can simply ask him, "what can I do to make things right for you?"

eddieC

My Feedback: (2)

Their fees might be OK for those for whom it's a ' business generating over 7 figures a year' , and who 'spend 5 figures a month in ebay fees'. Oddly, I would think those same folks would want lower fees.  For the vast rest of us, their fees are ridiculous. They aren't a brick-and-mortar operation, and shouldn't be compared to one.

I've been a 100% positive feedback seller since 2003, but am what I'd call a 'hobby seller'. I've watched them ramp up their fees over the years, and have been burned on transactions as both a buyer and a seller. I may go 6 months between sales, and as such  they treat folks like me like we're noobs and we start at the bottom, jumping through all their BS hoops. For us, they should have a reduced rate scheme. They call all the shots, don't listen to complaints or constructive criticism because they don't have to.  The apathy of the larger sellers is hurting everyone. Patting a company on the back for taking 15%+ of a sale is beyond me.  [:'(] 

Taz_Hobbies

My Feedback: (15)

I didn't compare ebay to a brick & mortar operation. I simply pointed out that the fees sellers pay who use them and complain about it should compare the fees to the costs of a brick & mortar operation. I did the numbers and there is no comparison.

100% positive feedback seller means nothing, no offense. It only means you do not hardly sell on ebay. We recently got a negative from a buyer in Israel who purchased a $3.00 item that he received in 7 days and his feedback comment was "I didn't like the service". Completely undeserved and ridiculous, but if you move any volume at all, you will get those no matter how 100% perfect you may think you are.

Where do you come up with these 15%+ fee numbers? This is typical of eBay bashers, the numbers quoted for the purpose of their arguement are almost always inflated, in this case nearly TWICE what the actual ffes are! eBay charges 11% (in the category we sell in) FinalValue Fee on the first $50 of a transaction and only 6% of the balance up to $1000, not 15%. And if you maintain a good account, get your TRS badge, then you pay even less. A $100 transaction on ebay costs me $6.85 in total eBay fees. That looks alot like 6.85%, a far cry from the 15%+ you claim.

If you are going to bash eBay and as a result those who use it to provide income for our families, by all means at least use the facts. And FYI, even if you weren't TopRated, that same $100 sales only costs you $7.30, which is 7.3% of the sale, FAR less than your 15%+ number.

TRY and keep the facts straight. I have my moments with eBay, but i really dislike when folks bash ebay and they have no idea what they are talking about. I started my ebay business with less money than I have invested in my 30cc MX2... But I can read the fine print.

eddieC

My Feedback: (2)

None taken. They make it a huge selling point, when they should just do away with it.

I don't know about your case, but I'm charged 9% off the top,plus all the add-ons (photos, etc.) plus 3% Paypal, which is owned by eBay. They even get a percentage of the shipping, whichhas no bearing at all on their function.Ifan item doesn't sell, I still get charged for it.Your numbers probably are due to high volume. Selling at retail, you can absorb those costs. I'm selling mostly used items at auction. Don't assume the small guys pay the same fees.

Everything I've written is true, and I didn't make any assumptions about your situation. It seems you're the one who doesn't know what you're talking about.

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

i guess i have to ask what you expect people to do here on RCU. is he a member to be careful of?

Taz_Hobbies

My Feedback: (15)

If everything you have written is true, how is it that now you admit you only get charged 9% where before it was 15%+? Also, I hate to be "that" guy, but pictures (up to 12 of them) are FREE. And yes Pay Pal is 2.9% for most folks. I pay substantially less than that due to my volume, you are correct on that.

Pay Pal is owned by the same entity, but they are a payment processor. Every payment processor has a fee schedule. Having a credit card machine sitting on your counter at your store costs more than pay pal charges me.

eBay does charge FVF on shipping prices. They are doing this because the huge number of knuckleheads who tried selling a $100 item, listed for $10 with $90 shipping to avoid eBay fees. This ended up costing some of us dearly. And it was the guys who thought they knew how to be clever. But in the end, guys like me who know how to sell on eBay efficiently actually pay less now with the new fee schedule than before. Same goes for sellers not being able to leave negative feedback for buyers. TOO many knuckleheads trying to use that for leverage adding costs and handling fees that weren't disclosed prior to the sale end. eBay did the right thing by eliminating those dirtbags ability to pressure buyers.

But if you can show me where eBay charged you 15%+, I will apologize to you.

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

Taz,
The fees are MANY and EXCESSIVE.
The listing fee.
The picture fee.
The selling fee.
The NEW shipping fee.
The paypal fee.

They take money from sellers at every step. Since ebay-of-pigs is basically a website, I feel their fees should be more like 5% TOTAL. Other than their exotic corporate buildings and several servers, there is nothing tangable about them. Websites do not take up large amounst of space (like a warehouse would), need insurance, require cleaning, do not store products, etc, etc.

When I sold a few items, years ago, I added it up to 20% ... yeah, I did the math and came up with 20%. Then, they changed the fee structure; they increased the listing fee by combining it with the selling fee .. UPFRONT !!
Next, you have to deal with all the last second sharks who bid on your item within the last 50 seconds of the listing in their attempts "steal" the item from you. I don't deal with that mentality. A few times, I had a $200 engine bid to @ $60 until the last minute of the listing. Then it shot up to $140 for the final sale price. I would have only sold it for $140 to a relative or a good friend ... not a stranger! THEN, to top it off, paypig takes another 3.5 % In the end, I had to pay nearly 20% for an item I already LOST money on!!!!!

I also bought a few items to sell on ebay-of-pigs. My profit was -15%. Even when I did sell something and made a profit, flea-bay made more of a profit than I did ... AND I DID ALL THE WORK ... AND LAID OUT MY OWN MONEY !!! This is not just my opinion, many people I know who tried it, feel the same way.

If you are paying 5 figures a month for selling items on that websie, you are paying too much. It basically costs flea-bay nothing to list your item, yet they take a large percentage of the sale for doing ABSOLUTELY nothing. If I were to pay that amount for selling items, I would expect some form of assistance with my selling, such as storing and shipping the item for me. Yeah, they have those local ebay stores that do that, but they take 50% of the sale price.

Taz, if you are making money on that site, then you must be buying things at 10~25% of the selling price. As far as I can tell, anything higher than that would not be a worthwile business venture. Yet flea-bay still charges too much (and it does add up to 15~18% of the sale) .. all for doing nothing. In my opinion, exposure to a large market is not worth 15~20% of the sale of every item I were to sell. Next, add in the factor of the type of people you are dealing with ... those that wait until the last second to pay the lowest price.

BTW ... A credit card machine is cheaper than paypig fees ... The machine can be bought or leased from your bank. Plus, the average transaction fee the bank would charge you is 50 cents for debit card transactions, and 0.75~1.5% for credit cards .. that includes AMEX, Discover, and Diners Club.

All in all, that is not the type of business or customer base I would want to deal with ... EVER.

nitrosportsandrunner

I understand why ebay started charging a final value fee on shipping....
TOO many ads had a $20 cost with a $100 shipping cost. Those ads always ticked me off anyway. what a lame way to try and get around fees...or try to get more people to view the ad.

Fees suck, no one wants to pay. But its the price for the service provided. You try making a site like ebay...find out what it costs to keep that kinda service running! Its easy to complain about the cost, and forget about what you get. Its very easy to make a detailed listing and to post pictures. And the audience is large.

Taz_Hobbies

My Feedback: (15)

The listing fee is $0.10 for an auction. There is no picture fee! The first 12 photos uploaded are FREE or if you remote host as I have since 1999, it's ALWAYS been free. The final value fee on auctions is 9% in most cases. The SHIPPING fee is part of the 9%. Offer free shipping and you don't pay a penny different than before. Pay Pal fee is a payment processor fee, NOT an eBay fee. We have to talk apples and apples here.

You "feel" it shoudl be 5%. Okay I can work with that. When I worked for a company a few years ago and I earned $25Million a year in revenue from my office I also "felt" like I should have been making $250,000 a year instaed of the paltry $125,000 i was knocking down. Perception & feelings isn't always reality.


I have been selling more than $100,000 a year on eBay since about 2006. Never, not once did any fees ever add up to 20%. Not even close.

So because you didn't put a reserve on the engine it's eBay and the snipers fault? Come on man, only bet what you are willing to lose! And for the record, Pay Pal's highest transaction fee is 2.9%, not 3.5%.

You make your money when you purchase, NOT when you sell. This is true on everything. If you bought wrong, that is on you.

Costs ebay nothing? Are you serious? You should probably get on to your second cup of coffee. You're not making much sense. Just the cost of having a phone bank of reps to handle issues, help the sellers and deal with site issues is astronomical. And the building in Utah where the servers are housed is not exactly a small building. If you want storing and shipping for you (which you have zero quality control over) you may consider Amazon. But you'll lose your mind over there. Amazon really charges some big fees. But I also routinely get 15%+ higher revenue at Amazon so I am okay with it.

Please show me where it adds up to 15 - 18%. Please. Use a basic $100 transaction. The numbers do not lie dude. Listing AND selling a $100 as a nobody with no store, no nothing will cost you $9.00 in eBay fees TOTAL. That is insert fee & final value fee on $100. Go ahead and let's add Pay Pal's 2.9% fee of $3.20. $9.00 + $3.20 ISNOT 15-18%. It is 12.2%!!! Where do you get these ridiculous number from? If you are unhappy with eBayers like myself, that's cool, but USETHEFACTS! And by the way, I pay EXACTLY $6.85 in ebay fees and $2.20 in pay pal fees on that transaction. That is 9.05%. A FAR cry from these 15 & 18% numbers being thrown around.


And again you are incorrect. Pay Pal charges a $0.30 per transaction fee, almost 50% less than your bank and here in FL I have yet to sit down with a bank, my own or a competitor and get close to .75% - 1.5%. It's more like 2.2% AND you have to pay for the machine, either outright or monthly making that fee HIGHER!


Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am quite happy running a small business that is efficient and easy to run, have nobody to answer to, started with little more than lint in my pocket for an initial investment with mostly automated systems keeping labor cost down and when everybody is paid including Uncle Sam, I still see a very, very reasonable % in black on the bottom of the page. Plus it's fun! I enjoy R/C people.

Dolphpb

My Feedback: (2)

As an infrequent buyer, when I buy something I look at the feedback and if there is 50,000 positive and 2 or 3 negative, I just figure these are the "Turds" of society and they aren't happy with anything. So don't worry about negative feedback from turds...

MrQweeksdraw

Yeah, capitalism is absolutely the worst economic system...except for all of the others.

phreaktor

There is that 1 out of 10 annoying buyer on ebay... And you have no recourse when they leave you a negative because you HAVE to leave them a positive if they paid. So buyers can basically extort you with the threat of negative feedback.

Taz_Hobbies

My Feedback: (15)

Another bit of information from knowing the fine print...>>>

Allow the buyer to extort you. In fact, grab his hand and walk him down that path, encourage him or her to make a statement like "If you don't do this or do that I'll leave bad feedback". The moment they do this thru ebay messages they have just violated the eBay Feedback Extorsion Policy and ANY feedback they leave after that can and will be removed in 30 seconds with a single phone call to eBay.
We have "those" buyers 50 times a month and as soon as they bow up, they open their mouths with the threats and boom... they are instantly on our block list and their feedback gets erased...

nitrosportsandrunner

Its odd that this thread turned into a "ebay bashing" thread.

I had no complaints about ebay. I was just ticked about the unreasonableness of the buyer. I just needed to vent, so I could calm down and not end up sending him a message I would later regret.

I dont sell anywhere near the volume that Taz does, but I feel that overall ebay does a good job. Sure, I "wish" the fees were less, but I understand that it cost them alot to maintain the site...and naturally ebay is there to make money as well.

If you cant deal with ebay as a middleman, then dont use them. Good luck trying to sell on Clist or other local sites. You will get a fraction the views you would on ebay.

Taz_Hobbies

My Feedback: (15)

Excellent, you are using the force Luke!

eBay, love them or hate them, is the single largest marketing vehicle on the planet that is cost effective for what we (read: hobby guys) do. Not another entity out there reaches tens of millions of viewers (AKA potential customers) as eBay does for a nickle or a dime! A yellow pages ad costs 1000 times as much and reaches 50000x less in terms of demographics. Spend a nickle on ebay and you can potentially reach nearly 300 countries worldwide and have your item available for display to nearly 22 million registered eBay buyers.

Eman77

I've been selling/buying on ebay for years now (not high volume though), and I am wondering where Taz's info on pics ALWAYS being free came from.

Right now I listed an RC car with 12 free pics. I was shocked. Very recently I would get charged a fee for every pic after the first, or at least the first couple. It HAS changed at various times over the years, so you can't claim it's always been 12 free - it has not.

I've also seen the fees vary from category to category - perhaps RC stuff has been 12 free photos for a while...but selling Nascar memorabilia, it is not.

My point is, it depends on when you do it, and what category - they're changing stuff from time to time. I've seen fixed price listings be a $.15 entry fee (no pic), but now it's $.50 for Nascar stuff with 1 image. Too many variables to make any blanket statements.

jquid

I would contact Ebay, and let them know, so at least if Neg feedback is given, you can ask to have it removed.

Hemikiller

My Feedback: (125)

Agreed, CL is the biggest PITA to sell RC stuff on. I get all sorts of wicked lowball offers, like $75 for a U can Do 3D 60 RTF I had advertised for $250, etc. Add in the buyers not showing up as stated, the gabby callers, etc and I'd rather sell on eBay any day and gladly pay their fees. Sure, I'd "like" to pay less, but it is what it is and that's what it costs.

To the OP, I'd take the high road and let this crumb fade away. I would simply let it go, maybe apologize for shipping late and let it be. Leave him positive feedback for paying on time and move on.

psb667

In the real world. I have a small service company. Many people will leave a bad review If they simply are the type who leave a bad review. I have gotten to the point where I can tell who is going to complain and who is not as soon as i meet them. After Five years and a thousand reviews or so most people see only the good reviews due to the jerk factor. I always make conciliatory remarks in response to the bad reviews and not one offem has ever called me to take advantage of my trying to make a satisfied customer. Dont give in to the jerk factor people will read the good reviews(especially if there are a lot more good than bad) and ignore the bad feedback.

turbojoe

My Feedback: (8)

I'd like to apologize for adding fuel to that fire. Like everyone else I don't like paying fees but hey, it's a service and you have to pay for it. My only real gripe was that they hold my money for so long after a sale. That's for another thread though.......

If I were you I'd contact ebay BEFORE the guy leaves bad feedback and provide the communication that you've shown us. Fire that preemptive strike. You'll be showing them that you have done everything you can in good faith but the buyer still seems unreasonable. Should you need to ask for negative feedback removal maybe it would help? In any case it looks like most of us are in support of you based on the info you've posted. Good luck with this.

Joe

Taz_Hobbies

My Feedback: (15)

Go back and re-read my posts, only slower this time. I never said ALWAYS, you just did. But at the time this argument was made about picture costs, it's free FORALLCATEGORIES. And has been since sometime around the first couple months of 2012. And prior to that the FIRSTphoto in ANYlisting was free. So there has ALWAYS been at least 1 FREE photo.

I started my business with diecast. Used to buy a ton thru gomotorbids before they shut down and I still deal with DiecastDirect on a monthly basis. Still sell about $5000 in diecast monthly. Back then it was 1 free pic and $.10 each after that. Now it's 12. Where do I get info from? I have three Platnium accounts that are all TRS. I am on my eBay based businesses 12+ hours a day. I list 7500 items a month across 3 accounts. I can very clearly see what costs what. Additionally I have calculators that I can use at anytime that show costs, upgrades, etc. And of course if you read the eBay policy you'll see - "Pictures are free (up to 12 per listing) with zoom and enlarge capabilities—through eBay picture hosting." That is for ALL accounts & categories now.

Taz_Hobbies

My Feedback: (15)

Negative feedback based on teh transaction the OP posted does not qualify for removal... yet. If the buyer continues to make comments, he may get himself into a position where eBay will look at it, but it takes an act of congress to get negs removed that aren't obvious voilations.

Grin and bear it, red donuts make an "eBay" man out of you!

stoneenforcer

My Feedback: (23)

well sadly, some people just arent wired properly. Ive got around 30 or so positive feedbacks and had one guy try to give me a bad rating simply because I refused to ship out of country, which my ad stated. he wanted me to ship to his freind in the states and he'd pick it up while here on vacation and i said NO WAY as this could easily be a scammer. Either way, the wack job gave me a negative mark for rejecting his winning bid.

you just never know who or what is lurking on the other keyboard. You can contact ebay and contest his remark.

SyCo_VeNoM

I bought a 20 DVD set for a series once for $.99, and $95 shipping years back(like 8 years ago)
miss those days

eddieC

My Feedback: (2)

The 9% is the first of many fees. Try to keep up.

They operate hand-in-hand, communicate with and refer to each during inquiries and e-mails. Ebay makes it very difficult, almost impossible, to deal with other payment options. A monopoly IMO, they are one-and-the-same for all intents.

Someone seeing that wouldn't buy it.   So it's OK for the 98% of us to pay 'shipping final value' fees they're not entitled to because they couldn't manage their business better/more imaginatively? Just another 'tax' the 'Bay adds due to their monopoly.

  Great, keep reading.

Bear in mind I charge within $.50-1.00 of actual shipping, so that's not a profit center for me.
I took the first 20 transactions on my July bill and came up with the following:
Final Price total:                            $877.49
FV Fees:                                         $90.95         (10.36% due to rounding up of amounts)
Shipping:                                         $174.49
Shipping FV Fees:                         $15.75          (9%)
Insertion & Gallery Plus Fees:     $12.00
Paypal Fees:                                   $26.32          (3%)
$90.95 + $15.75 + $12.00 + $26.32 =  $145.02,  16.5% total fees on 20 items.
I'll PM my July bill if you like. Nothing to hide here. I'd ask to see yours in exchange, just to see how the 'other half' lives. [8D]

I tracked one item, #160844548534, tail rotor blades I believe, that sold for $4.95. Insertion and Gallery Plus fees were $.60, FV fees were $.45, shipping FV fee was $.27, and Paypal fees were $.15. Fees totaled $1.47, or 29.7% of the sale. Hence Ebay/PP being viewed as the robber barons they truly are.

Good on you for playing the system to your advantage, which also seems to leave you time to cheerlead for them. Plenty of anti-Bay/PP sites out there, very few drinkin' that Pro-'Bay koolaid .

AP400: What it comes down to is greed IMO. I and my friends shudder when we look at what's being left for our kids and grandkids. Meg Whitman, former CEO, is a billionaire after being there a few years.  She's figured out how to work the system, too.