f308gtsi

My Feedback: (1)

Anyone building a Comp Arf Mustang in the Northern Ohio region ?

BigRetracts

My Feedback: (1)

I have one that I have not started yet. what do you need to know?

Darrell

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

Here is an update on the control system for the wings with internal linkages. Both wings are now fitted with there respected servos and control rods. This took a lot longer than I thought. I used the Hitec 645MG at both locations. I have encluded photos of the aileron servo, and linkage installed, along with the flap servo installed. There is a photo of the mounted flap push rod in the flap. I used 1/8" ply cut to the shape of the wing root. I then open the skin in the proper location and cut an opening in the hinge mount block to allow the mounting plate to slide in flush with the block. I left a control horn protrusion at the front where I drilled the ball link mounting hole, and using a small hex head 4-40 bolt attached the ball link permantly to the plate. I then used 30 min epoxy with milled fibers to glue the plate into the flap.
I had to cut the opening in the skin wider that I would have liked to allow passage of the hardware. I then taped off the opening from the inside and glassed over it. I then cut the slot to size and used filler to finish off the opening. I used some filler behind the newly glassed area to give it more strenth. I had previously installed the rod on the ball clevis before attaching it to the ply plate. I then placed the servo and mount in the wing and spaced the flap to trailing edge to get the length of the pushrod. Make sure you do not make this measurement with the servo in the middle of it's travel. I then soldered the threaded coupler to the rod and installed the flap back onto the wing and attached the clevis to the servo arm. I then mixed some 30 min. epoxy and glued the servo mount into the wing with everything in alignment. I used tape to hold everything untill the glue set up. I used this process to intall the ail. servo mounts also. This will make sure every thing is in alignment. Next I will finish off the hatch openings and install the hatch mounts and screw them down. After opening the wing where I did, I found an opening in the wing rib for the servo lead to pass through. If you make your openings where they tell you , you can not see these. Again there is no mention in the instructions that they are there. In the previous wing I drilled a hole using a 24" drill bit to accomodated the ail. servo lead.
Next I will be installing the landing gear and gear doors. I have given this much thought and hope my idea will work out. This set of wings the clam shell doors and strut door hinge mounting tubes are smaller in diameter than the previous wing and they are glued shut at both ends. I would like to install them with out making spring pins to put the hinge pins in. This will take a different approach than the previous wing. I plan on cutting out the intire area around the strut door hinge area and make this including the strut door part of the gear hatch. this will allow me access to the hing pin tubes so I can open them up on the ends. I also plan on adding some more wood in the landing gear mount area for strength. Wish me luck. I wil have photos of the hatches when done and also the gear install.
Gary

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

Been busy today. I made four hatch inner frames out of 1/32nd ply with 1/16" squares glued into the cornners of the frame for the hatch screws. I feel that the frame will add strength to the opening and allows a rail for the hatch to rest on all the way around it. this allows the use of only four very small screws. I used a number 1 brass wood screw. I used a #50 drill for the screw starter holes. I glued the frames in using thin CA. I clamped them in place with wooden spring cloths pins. Great little clamps.
now that all the servo extentions were installed I buttoned up all the hatches.
Now on to mounting the landing gear. As you can see by the photo, this is a weak area. Only the 1/16" ply ribs supporting the gear rails. I have to admit that not all my landings are greasers...LOL. So I plain on beefing up this area with 1/4" ply scab ribs, and glassing the area for more strength.

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

Next I needed to mark the opening for the retract hatch. I then cut them out using my trusty hot knife. I tape a steel rule onto the skin inline with my ink line so I will have a guide for my knife. This gives me the best chance for a stright edge. I have included a photo of the hatch upside down to show you how they glued the gear strut door pins shut. If this would have been left in tact on the wing skin you would have had a real problem getting them open again. I used a cut off wheel with my Dremel tool to open the ends so I could pass a pin through them to hold the door on. The witdth of the opening in the rib is to narrow to take the Sierra retract unit. I had to widen it an !/8th inch on each side. I then slipped the unit in place only to find when I put the hatch in place that the hinge opening was off center to the retract center. CRUD!!!! When the kit was made they must have made a mistake. I know the other wing was off some but not this much. I then decided to move the rails more forward towards the leading edge to help line up the gear door opening. I will have to make a few adjustments to the strut door rods that attach the door to the gear strut. I'm shown using my trusty file with course sticky back sandpaper attached to one side opening up the rail mounts. By the way. The ribs in this pair of wings are in the same place in each panel. remember the others were a 3/4" off. Well I have started making rib templates from paper, then cardboard, then to wood for the scab ribs. I should have them done tomorrow and will post photos of the finished retract mounts.
Good Day
Gary

Empennage Gunner

My Feedback: (11)

Good stuff Gary! Your ideas and work will help in my build up of a Ziroli Mustang currently in the works. Thanks, Wade

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

Great, been following your build also. We can learn from each other.

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

Finished up making the scab ribs, whew! a lot of time went into these. Making templates then cutting them out then fitting them into the wing. I made a dry run to make sure every thing fit the way it was suppose to. I marked the rails then removed. I placed a 1/32" piece of wood between the retract unit and the rail to act as a spacer. I then drilled four mounting holes, two in each rail. will drill the others when rails are glued in place. This is one of the most important things to do when installing retracts, so they do not bind when installed. I then applied 30 min. epoxy to all the wood ribs and rails and installed. I then screwed the retract unit to the rails. This will cause the rails to glue in perfectly aligned to the retract unit. If the unit is off square the rails will align with it. if you just glue the rails in, they could be out of alignment with the retract unit and cause it to twist when the screws are tighten down. this will then cause the retracts to bind and not work properly. While the glue was still wet, I checked the alignment again and placed a small wood block between the wheel and front of the wheel well to keep it at the proper spacing until the glue set up. I leave it over night and then I will remove the retract unit and glass the entire system to tie it all together. I have already cut the scab ribs for the other wing panel and will hope to have it where this one is tomorrow.
then it will be on to fitting the gear door hatchs and getting it put in place.
good day
Gary

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

Both wings are now finished with the gear install including the strut door attachment and hatch. Here are two photos showing one wing panel with the gear installed along with the hatch. the other is the opposite wing minus the retract unit and hatch. You can see the hatch support wood (1/32" ply with small square pieces of 1/16" ply back up for hatch screws at each screw location. I Zaped this in place with thin CA. Also note both ribs have been glassed to the spar and wing skin using 8 oz cloth and Zap finishing resin. I hope this will help stand my sometimes not so perfect landings...LOL Next I will drill out the front of the wing inline with the clam shell door pin location to facilitate installing the door hinge pins.
Good Day
Gary

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

I then used a pin vise to drill from the inside to outside of wing skin to detrimine location for hinge pin for inner clam shell door. I then drilled the opening to size from the out side. I then placed the hinge pin rod in place to detrimine pin length. Cut it off to length and rounded off end of rod. I put inner door in place and slid the hinge pin in place. Checked for freedom of movement. I had to sand where they glued the rod onto the door to a round contour on both doors and had to adjust the opening in one of the panels so that the door would move with out obstruction. Now that all the doors are installed, I will go to the next step of attaching the inner door skins and setting up the linkage for the the strut door and installing the door stop wood to the inside of the wing skin around the gear door openings. This will take sanding the inside of the doors smooth and then deterimine the place for the hard points before gluing the skins in position.
Well it's off to watch the wild commericials....opps I mean super Bowl.
Gary

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

All doors attached

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

Guys, I feel it's time to fess up. I have been having help all along from a very special friend. Below in the photos, I am revealing him for the first time. As you know my Nosen mustang has been grounded due to having been autographed by over 42 Tuskegee Airman a few years ago. At the centinnial of flight celebration here in Dayton, Ohio. I wanted another model to fly that will allow me to continue to honor these brave American pilots. This model will either be painted in the scheme honoring Lee Archer the only Ace of the Tuskegee airmen or "Lucky Lester" who shot down three enemy aircraft in one day. My friend here is Mr. C.I. Williams, a retired LT. Col of the U.S. Airforce. He was wing commander with a squadron of P-47s and P-51s during WWII, and was reassigned to head up the B-25 bomber group that was trainning to go to Japan when the war ended. He served directly under Benjamen Davis Jr. C. I. went on to serve in the Korean and Vietnam wars before retiring. He ended his career at N.C.R. as an engineer. His signature is born on the "May West" of the figure. He was also the model for the figure. There are two versions, one fighter pilot and the other bomber pilot. C. I. is a member and past president of the Ohio Chapter of the Tuskegee Airmen Inc. , of which I am a member also. I would be doing the plane in his aircraft but he lost all of his photos while in Vietnam. his plane was called "The Devil"
C.I. was the first CO of General Chappy James, the first black four star general in the USAF. C.I. was also the first to land a B-25 at Lockborn airbase, now Rickenbacker air base here in Columbus, Ohio. The Tuskegee Airmen were stationed here after WWII until President Truman desegregated the the armed services. C. I. has related many stories of missions flow, over 105 in WWII alone. Through him and the Ohio chapter, I have had to priviledge to meet many of the Tuskegee airmen. I know all of you war bird fliers do so to honor all of our WWII aivator heros, and help to keep the history alive.

Gary

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Gary, very cool to be connected to history in a special way. Before you know it all those brave men who served during WWII will be gone from us. Your Mustang is really taking shape nicely.. way to go..

Peter Pankras

great story gary..

My 51c will also be dedicated to the Tuskegee Airmen.
I'm getting ready to make "Ina, the macon belle"

Peter

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

Fantastic, I have talked with Lee Archer a few time on the phone, and can tell you they are all very appreciative of our efforts to tell there story. I was at the Fantasy of Flight museum, owned by Kermit Weeks, and his "C" model of Ina, the Macon Belle is fantastic! It also bears five kill flags on its side. I really like the "Hep Cat" on the side of the plane.

Peter Pankras

I have a lot of pictures already of ina.. love it.. also really like the story about the Tuskegee Airmen.
I would like to dive in the story deeper as I don't know much yet..

Keep up the good work.. I'm really enjoying watching your build as you know..

Cheers

Peter

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

There are quite a few good books out there, but I have only found one with color photos of the aircraft. "Tuskegee Heros"
by Charlie and Ann Cooper, They both do volunteer work at the National museum of the United states Air force with me. the book with the color prints is "Mustang Aces of the ninth & Fifteenth air Forces & RAF" by Jerry Scutts.
AnnCooper also wrote the autobiography about Patty wagstaff, Fire & Ice". I mean she put Patty's words into print.

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

I Started and finished the strut gear door install today. Due to the hinge center of the door not being inline with the retract unit (see the previous post showing gear install) I opted for a method I have used in the past. It is not true scale,but the door will still be hinged at the skin. I had to first take the slop out of the gear hinge to wing skin. There was about an 1/8" gap on either side of the hinge pin on the door. I cut very narrow slices of fuel tubing and placed one of these washers on each side of the hinge on the door. This did two things. It stoped the door from sliding back and forth, causing the door to stay centered. The fuel line washers also drag on the hinge and will keep it from vibrating. I then measured the distance between the ball joint balls mounted on the gear leg. This is a neat thing that Darrel of Sierra provides for his gear. It is a scale looking gear door connecting arm mount that is adjustable up and down the leg. It uses a 4-40 socket head screw for tightening the clamp. Looks really good. I next took a piece of 1/4 X 1/2" hard wood rail and mounted in my drill press. I used a cutting tool to make a groove to accept the brass bearing tube for the 2-56 rod I would be using for the attachment arms. I then mounted the door back onto the wing and made a mark on the skin of the door where the ball joint balls ligned up level with the door with the gear in the extended position. I brought this mark to the out side of the door. I then put the gear in the retracted position. I made a mark on the side of the wing inline with the previous mark showing where the block would be mounted. My goal here is to detrimine the length of the connecting arms. I then rasied the door and layed a straight edge across the mark. I measured from the gear leg ball mount to his mark. This length is the total length of the rod including the ball link. I then mounted a ball link on the threaded end of a 2-56 rod and then bent it to length. I slipped the end throught the brass bearing in the mounting block and then bent the other 90 degree bend. I then cut the arm to length and silver soldered the threaded end coupler to the rod. Wha La, one door attachment arm assembly. I then placed the assembly onto the gear leg. I blocked up the bearing block so it was level with the wing skin. I then applied thick Ca to the block and sprayed kicker on to the door. I then carefully lowered the door down to mate with the block, keeping the gear door centered. I then held in place till the glue fired off.

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

Here is the door attached to the gear strut. I then proceeded to cut out the plastic door skins and fit them to the doors. I cut slots in them for the arms to protrude through. I sanded the inside of the doors smooth and also roughed up the gluing surface of the plastic skins. I then mixed up some 30 min epoxy and micro balloons. Wanted the mixture to be thick. I then placed the skin on the door and clamped with a large number of spring type cloths pins. Don't tell the wife what happened to all her cloths pis, OK guys...LOL. After it dried I then installed the door assembly back onto the wing. I will add some brass tubing to the arms to make them look thicker. When i glued the skin to the door I intentionally left some of the glue that oused out to stay. When it hardens it will look like a weld when painted.
Good day
Gary

Mustang51

My Feedback: (25)

Gary,

I was just noticing your build thread today. I wanted to give you a piece of advice if you don't mind.
Three years ago I built an "Airworld" composite FW190, so I've had a little experience and advice from others on composite airframes.
You need to "box-in" the aileron and flap servo compartments. Meaning... the upper skin must be connected to the bottom by use of plywood "walls". Reinforcing the upper wing skins servo mount won't help you. By "boxing-in" the bay you won't allow the servo mount to flex, which if you think about it, is only mounted to the inside of the upper wing skin, and that's pretty flexable, even with reinforcing with carbon fiber mat as you have done.
One fellow had told me he lost an airplane because he didn't do this. In flight, the flutter from one of the ailerons was so bad that it ripped out the aileron and entire servo mount. The flutter transmitted right to the wing skins causing loss of control. His feeling as well as many others (and mine) is that if you "box-in" the compartments, you gain the rigidity and strength needed in controlling larger flight surfaces.
Just watching your 6.

Regards,
Mustang51

schroedm

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Gary,

Go with Dave's advice - he is spot on.

All the Composite-ARF kits (and any composite wings on larger models infact) need the servo bays boxed in so that the upper and lower skins are 'joined' together. I use 1/4" balsa sheet with the grain going vertically - never had a problem.

Rgds,
Mark

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

I appreciate your thoughts. I to have been wondering if I needed to do that also. My friend felt the carbon fiber mat tying the skin and spars together would create the same effect. The mat does go from the front spar to the rear spar. I can tell you it is very stiff. However I will probably install the box. Thank you again for taking the time to give me your thoughts.
Gary

schroedm

My Feedback: (1)

Gary,

I know that with the carbon it probably feels fairly stiff but, just think (if you can bare to!) how you'd feel if you lost her to some flutter for the sake of 30mins and a few inches of 1/4" sheet

Rgds,
Mark

Mustang51

My Feedback: (25)

Isn't the internet an amazing thing? I mean REALY!
Through this amazing media, we can help each other with things like this. In years past, you only had "local" guys offering advice. Now, we have the entire world(in this case, the modeling world) to help us. I couldn't live without it(let alone imagine it).

-Mustang51

gary9648

My Feedback: (1)

Well it took a little more than 30 minutes, but I boxed in all the servos. I used 1/4" balsa for the flaps and 1/8" balsa for the ailerons. I wanted to keep as much weight off the wing tips for good roll response. I then saturated the wood with thin CA. You can stand on that puppy now. Still waiting on the clam shell cylinders...CRUD!... Oh well. I will now start on my sliding canopy system. I will first cut out the glass shell I bought from Pro-builder and glue the canopy to it. I plan on using a system like the full scale. With the canopy attach point on the inside of the rail. I will take photos as I go so you can see what I'm up to. this is the first time I have done a sliding canopy this way. I also plan on installing the canopy clyinder behind the canopy so I can slot the fuse at the rear of the canopy, so it looks just like the full scale. Talk to you soon.
good day!
Gary