ravill

My Feedback: (11)

I was determined to get rolling circles down! I've seen folks do it and it seemed impossible to do.

I started on my sim, then on my cap and then on my jet!

By far the most difficult was with my jet as it is moving so much faster and covering so much distance.

I "heard" that input from every surface was necessary to do these, but I found this not to be true and it became so much easier when I left the rudder alone!

So, for all you folks practicing rolling circles, you don't need rudders to do this!!

Raf

nedyob

My Feedback: (67)

When I start my rollers, I start with alittle aileron (RT for right roller,lft. for left roll)
push elev. while inverted
pull elev. while up right.
useing 1/2 throttle and making a big circle, the smaller circles cause more inputs and cause you to rush your inputs more causeing overcontrolling.
NEDYOB

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

so u say now

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

At high airspeed,little or no rudder is needed,depending on plane,try them at 1/2 power and see what happens

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

Using no rudder with them is just developing bad habbits that you will need to break down the road.

Try them at a slower speed, or one or 2 rolls per circle.. need rudder than. Also if you plan on doing rolling harriers that look good you need rudder as well. You can always tell when someone isnt using the rudder in a rolling harrier.. the tail doesnt roll axial.. more of a barrel roll.

The thing with rollers is that they generally take a lot of practice and then one day it just clicks.. its just a rythem you need to find.

To do a proper rolling circle you lead with the rudder.. you dont start rolling first.

Keep at it you will get it.

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

jaek u hit the nail on the head with that one i love to do mine rolling outside[8D]

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

ya I prefer outside rollers but I can do them both ways.. outside are still easier for me since that what I practiced first

JustErik

Jake,

Do you have any idea why this is so common? I've seen that comment so many times before, and it's the same for me. I can do a very respectable outside roller, but every time I try it rolling inward, my thumbs get all crossed up and I have to bail out. I haven't given up yet, but it sure is frustrating sometimes.

Erik

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

The timing is slightly different when you do them inside and I find most people including myself are late on the rudder input which causes you to loose altitude quickly. Then you panic and bail out instead of trying to fight it.

It all comes down to practice and I think if you remember how much time you spent learning outside rollers and put in the same focused time on the inside rollers then it would start to be a lot easier. I think most just try opposite once in awhile and still tend to focus on the one they are better at.


For what it's worth I can tell you I have chatted with many who started inside and find them a lot easier than outside rollers

frieshoo

My Feedback: (20)

My flying buddy always rolls inside with his rolling harriers... and I always roll outside... Honestly, I've never tried inside rollers... even on a sim.

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

i do rolling harrier to the inside and perfer rolling circles to the outside. you def have to hit the imputs harder to roll to the insdie if u ask me

nedyob

My Feedback: (67)

Why are rollers to the inside more harger to do, then rollers to the outside? Is it becaue of the cross sticks or is it mind over matter. Like the right brain not knowing what the left brain is doing.
I've been doing rollers for about a year now and the inside rollers are the most challenging.
NEDYOB

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

i learn 2 do inside one first

BobMaine

When you do rolling circle at low speed or rolling harriers the tail of the aircraft will wobble in a circle rather than remain axial. You need to use the rudder to smooth this out. If you do them real slow you may need the rudder to keep the nose above the horizon also.

JCINTEXAS

Quote:
"To do a proper rolling circle you lead with the rudder.. you dont start rolling first"
__________________________________________________ _________
OK...let's say you are rolling to the right. Do you lead with right or left rudder?
Left rudder moves the nose of the aircraft left on yaw axis and this becomes nose high attitude as the aircraft rolls 90 degrees right. If you lead with right rudder, you would get nose down attitude as the aircraft rolls 90 degrees right.
Regards
JC

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

If you are rolling right doing an outside rolling circle you lead with left rudder.... if the plane is parallel to you and you begin you get on the left rudder to start the circle and then apply the roll.. by the time you get to KE you should have enough rudder to hold KE but not climb. If you continue this pattern the nose will not drop.

Dpending on how tight you want your rolling circle you can really get on the rudder when the plane is upright or inverted to keep the circle tight.

When someone starts to practice rolling circles I suggest they setup their low rate ailerion so they can peg the stick and have a nice slow roll. This way you can concentrate on the other sticks.

SAL98

My Feedback: (6)

Always use rudder even if its not needed. Like someone stated you dont want to start off learning bad habits. Once you get your timing to be second nature you will be able to speed up or slow the roller down as well as change directions or turn them into rolling harriers.

Its just like learning to land, when the aircraft starts to slow down you need more and more elevator control to keep the nose up. The same with rollers when you really slow them down and start to go high alpha more throw is needed and this is where the constant rudder control is almost nescesary.

Everyone in this 3D forum should be promoting Rudder control, if not they should be posting in the bank and yank section.

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

A rolling circle without rudder is not a rolling circle.
You may be going around in a circle and the plane may be rolling but there is no way to do a true "rolling circle" without rudder.

3D_Junkie

It also makes a big difference when doing rolling harriers down on the deck.

There is a guy at the field that loves doing rolling harriers "really low" (think wingtips in the weeds low) with his 40%er. He makes me nervous...why... because he doesn't use rudder and every time the plane goes through knife edge the nose drops about 10 degrees and the plane looks like it is going to go in.

Like everyone else said, don't ingrain bad habits.

If you are using the elevator only rolling circle as a stepping stone to learning full rolling circles, then that's okay.

MIXMASTER

My Feedback: (15)

Doesnt anyone use the elevator to turn in rolling circles? I tried them for quite some time the "normal" way, using rudder make the circle. Then, by accident I think, I hit the elevator while in KE or near KE and noticed I can make a tighter complete rolling circle by using the elevator as a rudder. Now I use this method to keep rolling harriers straight or turn, I seem to have better directional control this way, may not be the "right" way, but it works for me!

JustErik

I use both the elevator and rudder, as I suspect most folks do. I think the point of the rudder discussion is that it's a necessary element of the maneuver and not just an option. Personally, I have a long way to go before I can do them in all directions and orientations, but I'm trying to focus on keeping the rudder involved as much as I can. It's a struggle, but I figure if I want to progress, I don't have a choice.

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

Rudder, aileron and elevator are required to do rolling circles.
If your leaving one of those out, your not doing a rolling circle..

JustErik

Agreed. I figured aileron was a given. It would be pretty impressive to see it done on a three channel bird, that's for sure.

ravill

My Feedback: (11)

Well,

I am obviously doing them on a jet without rudder input! I was just impressed with myself that I was able to do rolling circles at all and when I found that I didn't need rudder input I was floored!

I had to share that tidbit. All the IMAC guys at my field said that I had to use rudder input to do rolling circles. I think you guys hit it on the head with the speed of the aircraft. Any of my jets are going much faster than any IMAC 40%'er out there in its rolling circle.

It is clear that a slow role (no matter how fast, even my 200 mph passes) needs rudder input to not loose altitude.[sm=thumbup.gif]

However, if I find that not to be true I'll post that here as well!

Raf

ravill

My Feedback: (11)

Oh and the IMAC guys couldn't believe that it took me one weekend of practice on my SIM and I was doing it the very next week! [&:]

I was intimidated by the rolling circle. It is still demanding, but I'm practicing an opposite rolling circle and can do 2-3 in a row before I have to bail out.

I'll get you yet rolling loop!

Raf