R/C Foolish

My Feedback: (6)

What would be good customer service? How many have had to be sent back multiple times? If they just replaced them, it would be done with. Unless there are so many that it would be cost prohibitive. This whole thing just doesn't make sense. I recently had an incident with a brand new OS 120. After 4 flights, head bolts came out in flight, motor deadsticked in a bad spot of our field. Plane went into tree, unrepairable!! Hobby Services gave me a brand new motor and plane under warranty to make their customer happy. Isn't that what it is all about? Why should all of us have to be unhappy that the FG20 that we have stinks!! OS is now getting into gas, you know they will convert a small cc motor soon. This is a very competitive business, I will deal with a vendor that puts the customer 1st, not profits. Because I guarentee I will be loyal to OS.

R/C Foolish

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

That is why there are different brands of engines.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

From a replacement count, the ignition main unit, timing sensor, or spark plug seems to be number one. The carb or merely carb adjustment seems to be number 2.

One of mine has had the carb reattached because the backplate broke and the timing sensor reattached before I bought it used. I never had any trouble with it. The other one I bought NIB and it had a rocker arm seize that I repaired myself.

bill4rest

My Feedback: (2)

Welp sent my two back to Horizon on friday and the waiting starts........................

bulldog319

Well, I finally put mine in the air yesterday. I have owned it almost a year, but life kept getting in the way, and I wasn't really willing to risk an airframe after I had heard of the troubles.

Recently I found a used Aeroworks .60-.90 Extra 260 airframe for ultra cheap, so I crammed it in there. Everything is stock except I am using a Slimline Pitts muffler with the pressure tap capped off.

For those thinking about this Airframe, it really is small for the motor. Using the Saito FG-20 mount, the motor is about half an inch too far forward, so I have a fair gap between spinner and cowl. Balance was kind of a trick as well. I put the ignition behind the fuel tank, just in front of the spar. I have two 6.0V AA size NiMh battery packs sitting on a frame I built into the turtle deck right behind the canopy.The throttle servo is mounted beside the rudder servo. With this setup, no balance weight was necesarry.

I could have probably left the ignition under the cowling if I would put my rudder servo in the tail, but space was tight back there and I would have to have built up some mounts for it. If I get to the point where I like this motor on this airframe, I will cut the motor box by 1/2 inch and put the rudder servo in the tail, but I am not there yet. I think the Aeroworks .60-.90 Yak would be a much better choice airframe just because of the round cowl, You wouldn't notice the 1/2 inch gap near as badly, you also would probably get better cooling.

This motor has been bench run, and performed nicely there, ground run up was good, and the first minute of flight was good.

After about a minute of flight the engine dropped power and started burbling hard. I landed, tweaked the mixture, and took off again with similar results after a minute except it went dead stick a little into the burbling. Unfortunately I came up a couple feet short of the runway and lost the landing gear.

When I get it flyable again I'll pull the cowl and try again. I think I have adequate cooling. the engine is mounted sideways. The very top of the head is in the airflow. and I have a ton of exit air. about a 3"X6" exit. But about a 15% portion of the engine is blanked by the cowling, so it is worth a try.

I have looked through the posts and all I can find are people that have trouble with it as soon as it gets in the air.

Has anyone here had the engine run great for the first minute in the air, then start to have trouble? If a solution was found, what was it?

Thanks,

Steve

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Make sure all the cowl air has to flow directly over the engine. Use ducting shields to guide the air

Timbers

My Feedback: (3)

Mine does that too, I could get it to run really great on the ground, then it would run for a minute or so in the air, and by the end of 5 minutes of flying it was missing and stumbling so bad I was lucky to get it back to the ground.

I sent it back to Horizon and they replaced the ignition and the spark plug because it would no longer spark. I ran it on the ground again and it runs great. A few days later we got 10 inches of snow and theres been snow on the ground ever since, so I won't be able to try it again till spring, unless I drive somewhere

...Tim

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The ignition module must be on the back side of the firewall from the engine

bill4rest

My Feedback: (2)

Why the backside?

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

To keep it cooler so it doesn't over heat.

Actually all battery ignition engines should have the ignition module located away from any heat like the muffler

bulldog319

W8ye, By backside do you mean to place the ignition inside the fuselage against the firewall or inside the cowling against the firewall?

Timbers, would yours gradually work it's way to stumbling or would it make a sudden transition? Mine makes a very definite transition. one second it is running great, the next it is really burbling.

Not much snow here, but probably won't get a chance to try again until after the new year.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

You must mount the ignition module on the opposite side of the firewall from the engine in the tank compartment. The ignition module can not be inside the cowl. There is too much heat in there.

Speedracer2112

One of my good friends is an engine expert. He recommended the exact oil.

SR

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

After running glow Saitos for 10 yrs or so, it is nice to run the gas ones and not worry about after run oil.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Saito has posted a new owners manual for the FG series

http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo...ion_Manual.pdf

modelflyer5

Is it my imagination. They have raised the minimum octane rating to 91 octane. I thought that they said that 87 was OK. I did not see any other changes from the revised version that they issued. They did not mention having the fuel tank in the glow position.

The Mustang that I have my engine in is still flying nicely. I have gone a click leaner a couple of times since I got the engine back from Horizon. It still is breaking in though. I noticed that the black suit is starting to clear up. It is now just putting out a blue colored oil out the vent line.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I have not heard any preignition or detonation and have not seen any physical evidence in my FG-20 and FG-36 engines

Speedracer2112

Today I ran my FG-20 for the first time. It ran flawlessly. I was very pleased with its performance in all aspects. It is very touchy to set up but is quite rewarding when its done.

I used:

Pennzoil Air Cooled 2 stroke motor oil at 20:1
Master Airscrew 15X6
JR 6v 2700 battery on the ignition
Header only (no muffler)

When I first started it the idle was close but it would not run up without trying to quit. I made the decision in my mind that I wouldn't make any more than a 15 minute change in either direction from the initial settings on both the high and low ends and took certain care to remember the original settings from the factory. I did this by remembering the original position, NOT by turning the needles all the way in or out!

For the first couple of hours black stuff speckled out of the header but stopped by three hours. Strict RPM and temperature readings were followed during break in. The new book is pretty much what I did.

The most sensitive setting is the low end. A 1 minute change is HUGE.

Proper break in and tuning took me about 5 hours straight. I will attempt to change to a synthetic oil in the future after I am broken in completely. I placed the muffler on the header at the end of the day and liked the sound and performance better with it on. I will be using the cooling header when its on the plane.

I read the new instructions that were posted. If those were packed in the original motors I think things would have gone better for a lot of people.

If you decide to buy this motor, PLEASE, follow the instructions, make very, very small adjustments over larger increments of time verses a nitromethane motor and you will be very pleased. Its a great feeling to see this thing purr.

Im going to load it into a H9 P51 Blue Nose next weekend for the in flight tuning. I will adjust the needle one click only for every test flight until I'm happy.

I sincerely hope I'm not back here eating my words in a few weeks! : )

SR

mike early

I'd like to see a photo of that cooling header installed....

You say the stock muffler yields better performance and sounds better too?

Speedracer2112

You can see one below. This is not my plane. I think a little back pressure made it run more smooth. The engine shown is a FA-125 with a long header that has been filed/ground off to fit into the cowl of a P-51. The picture below it is the short header.



Horizons site.




The rest of the photos are here.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9331672

SR

mike early

Thanks.

So you didn't get the cooling header with the pressure nipple? Or you did, and it doesn't provide enough back pressure?

Speedracer2112

Yes I did, but it will not be used. It will get capped off. I have a FG-20 which has pump so a pressure line isnt used from the muffler/header. If you are using a pressurized tank on a gas engine with a pump it would be a real mess. It would make the already sensitive needles 10 times more sensitive. It might not run at all.

Im speaking of a different "back pressure" from the resistance of forward flow out the exhaust port caused by the muffler.

SR

Speedracer2112

I ran my FG-20 for two more tanks today. ( 3 hours ) I ran it at multiple different ranges of RPMs and temperatures. Still no problems. It was close to 40 degrees outside so cooling was pretty easy to keep up with. The hottest it ran was 208 F. It will idle endlessly and purrs at all RPM ranges. Its completly broken in now. All I need now is a good hot Florida day to see what happens when its hot outside.

SR

RCHubbub

I think they do in a roundabout way on page 13.

"It is not designed as a fuel pump to draw fuel from a tank mounted in the middle of your airplane. The fuel tank needs to be mounted as close to the centerline of the Carb assembly as possible; the same as we have had to do for all these years with our glow engine installations."

modelflyer5

Sorry, I kind of skimmed through the manual since I all ready have it running well. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I have my tank mounted close to the carb, right on center line. The engine runs great.

I have always ran my Saitos without there muffler. They always ran and sounded better without the muffler. The thing is, there carbs (on glow) do not need to have pressure in the tank. They have enough suction to bring the fuel up to the carb, as long as the carb is close to the tank. I have my Fg 20 running perfect without a muffler at all. The header pipe is straight out of the cowel and then cut off. It actually is just a little lowder than with the muffler. It makes it easier to hear. I was pretty paranoid about hearing it with other planes in the air. Now, I trust it more. I don't need to hear it.

I think that everyone have there own set ups that they are comfortable with. This engine, like other Saitos, will run either way.

I just think that experienced gas and glow guys are the ones that will find this engine to be like all Saitos. Awesome. This engine is not a glow engine for sure. But, it is not the regular gas engine either. Have patients with it. In the long run, you will grow to love this engine.

Now that I have nearly broken in the engine, I am finding it to pull my Mustang even faster than the Satio 100 that I had in another Mustang of the same scale. Even with the extra weight, The engine preforms great.

My two cents.

Matt R