NGH 38CC 4 stroke
02-02-2014, 12:29 PM
#528
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: BlenheimMarlborough, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02-03-2014, 01:24 AM
#530
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Roseville,
CA
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The springs look like their tight and not spinning loose. I did find the valve clearance to be way over the .05 - .10 mm and adjusted it. I took the engine apart just to look at the parts. It's pretty good quality from what I can see so far. I got good at rebuilding older YS 4 stroke engines so it was easy to take this one apart. I also used a NGK CM6 plug instead of the one that came with the engine. I'll try it again.
02-03-2014, 11:00 AM
#531
some more testing today. The plane is 7.1kg and i have 6.7kg thrust. with a 18x12prop, so i think it will fly 
a little video of the engine running
http://youtu.be/WL1SwT7xBZk
a little video of the engine running
http://youtu.be/WL1SwT7xBZk
02-03-2014, 11:25 AM
#532
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Roseville,
CA
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow I would be happy to get mine running like that. I saw one on Youtube that was on a Pheonix Models 50cc size P-51 and it flew great that was also in the snow/ice conditions. I wonder why some say this engine doesn't have much power. Is the spark plug gap .04mm /.016. Or do you open it more than that. I also went by the valve clearance of .05mm to .10mm like they have in the manual did you find that worked okey or did you have to go more open than that. When I started it was way more open than that. I wonder if the valves get loose from the vibration. If so can you put some Locktite in or would the Loctite just disintegrate.
Last edited by Basil Yousif; 02-03-2014 at 11:29 AM.
02-03-2014, 11:42 AM
#533
i have 0.6mm on the sparkplugg. I dont meassure the valve clearance, i just tight the adjustment so i can feel al little clearance with my fingers on a cold engine. The valve clearance will increase when the engine get warm,
I will lean the L-needle a little more after I have run the engine some more.
I know the man who had that phoenix p51. He is from Norway to
I will lean the L-needle a little more after I have run the engine some more.
I know the man who had that phoenix p51. He is from Norway to
02-03-2014, 02:01 PM
#535
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Roseville,
CA
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is that Pheonix Models 50cc just a super light model. How can the NGH 38cc power that plane so good. If it was a ESM 30cc 78" wingspan P-51 I would agree it would fly that well or is that P-51 the same size as the ESM 30cc Warbirds.
02-03-2014, 02:33 PM
#536
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: stockton,
CA
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Basil, I don't think that the valve adjusters are loosening. I think that it is just the parts wearing-in. I just adjusted my valves this morning. The clearances had increased, but the locknuts on the adjusters were still nice and tight. I adjust my clearances the same way as Tyor. Hey, I just noticed that you live an hour away from me.
Tyor, I though my plane was heavy at 6.1kg! I look forward to your maiden flight.
Tyor, I though my plane was heavy at 6.1kg! I look forward to your maiden flight.
02-03-2014, 05:01 PM
#537
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Roseville,
CA
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Misfitsailor - I am in the AMOS club in Lincoln, Roseville area near the Thunder Valley Casino. I was the Treasurer for the club the last few years and now I am the Newsletter Editor. Stockton is pretty close down I5.
I really want to get this engine running right it is a nice big four stroke that I don't have to run to the Hobby Shop all the time to get Nitro for like my YS engines. It did start rough the first time so hopefully adjusting the valves will do the trick. The other adjustment I was thinking about if the valve adjustment doesn't work is the timing magnet on the ignition. I guess turning it clockwise will make the engine fire closer to TDC. Have you had to adjust it.
About the valves I think the manufacturer adjusts them then they run the engine to make sure it runs then box it. They more than likely don't recheck the valve adjustment before sending out the engine. We get the engine and run it a little more and the valves open up. I also had a brand new O.S. 70 that I got cheap at a swap meet - the guy couldn't get it to run out of the box and let the warranty run out. I bought it for $50 and only had to adjust the valves.
I really want to get this engine running right it is a nice big four stroke that I don't have to run to the Hobby Shop all the time to get Nitro for like my YS engines. It did start rough the first time so hopefully adjusting the valves will do the trick. The other adjustment I was thinking about if the valve adjustment doesn't work is the timing magnet on the ignition. I guess turning it clockwise will make the engine fire closer to TDC. Have you had to adjust it.
About the valves I think the manufacturer adjusts them then they run the engine to make sure it runs then box it. They more than likely don't recheck the valve adjustment before sending out the engine. We get the engine and run it a little more and the valves open up. I also had a brand new O.S. 70 that I got cheap at a swap meet - the guy couldn't get it to run out of the box and let the warranty run out. I bought it for $50 and only had to adjust the valves.
Last edited by Basil Yousif; 02-03-2014 at 05:08 PM.
02-03-2014, 05:36 PM
#538
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: BlenheimMarlborough, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Misfitsailor - I am in the AMOS club in Lincoln, Roseville area near the Thunder Valley Casino. I was the Treasurer for the club the last few years and now I am the Newsletter Editor. Stockton is pretty close down I5.
I really want to get this engine running right it is a nice big four stroke that I don't have to run to the Hobby Shop all the time to get Nitro for like my YS engines. It did start rough the first time so hopefully adjusting the valves will do the trick. The other adjustment I was thinking about if the valve adjustment doesn't work is the timing magnet on the ignition. I guess turning it clockwise will make the engine fire closer to TDC. Have you had to adjust it.
About the valves I think the manufacturer adjusts them then they run the engine to make sure it runs then box it. They more than likely don't recheck the valve adjustment before sending out the engine. We get the engine and run it a little more and the valves open up. I also had a brand new O.S. 70 that I got cheap at a swap meet - the guy couldn't get it to run out of the box and let the warranty run out. I bought it for $50 and only had to adjust the valves.
I really want to get this engine running right it is a nice big four stroke that I don't have to run to the Hobby Shop all the time to get Nitro for like my YS engines. It did start rough the first time so hopefully adjusting the valves will do the trick. The other adjustment I was thinking about if the valve adjustment doesn't work is the timing magnet on the ignition. I guess turning it clockwise will make the engine fire closer to TDC. Have you had to adjust it.
About the valves I think the manufacturer adjusts them then they run the engine to make sure it runs then box it. They more than likely don't recheck the valve adjustment before sending out the engine. We get the engine and run it a little more and the valves open up. I also had a brand new O.S. 70 that I got cheap at a swap meet - the guy couldn't get it to run out of the box and let the warranty run out. I bought it for $50 and only had to adjust the valves.
I hope that I have my theory right abd that I have moved in the right direction!!!
02-03-2014, 06:16 PM
#539
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: stockton,
CA
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, counterclockwise. I cut the slot on one side and mine is turned as far as it will rotate that way. Starts and runs great.
My last flying outing with this engine ending in a dead stick landing. I found the source of my recurring fuel problems today: The (Chinese) fuel tank stopper was the right color, but the wrong material! It has been dissolving and going to pieces. In spite of having a sintered clunk and a fine inline filter, I was still getting sufficient fine particles through to block the carb screen. I have cleaned everything now and have fitted a Dubro gas stopper. Tomorrow I will mix up a fresh gallon of fuel and try again! I will never trust an unknown stopper again. Here is a shot of what was left of it.
My last flying outing with this engine ending in a dead stick landing. I found the source of my recurring fuel problems today: The (Chinese) fuel tank stopper was the right color, but the wrong material! It has been dissolving and going to pieces. In spite of having a sintered clunk and a fine inline filter, I was still getting sufficient fine particles through to block the carb screen. I have cleaned everything now and have fitted a Dubro gas stopper. Tomorrow I will mix up a fresh gallon of fuel and try again! I will never trust an unknown stopper again. Here is a shot of what was left of it.
02-03-2014, 06:22 PM
#540
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: BlenheimMarlborough, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jeez that's a worry!! I am running mine on the test-bed through a chinese fuel tank stopper, the stopper came with an ESM Corsair I was intending to fit this engine to. The stopper is a reddish-brown colour so I thought it would be good to go. Did yours come with an ESM model perchance????
02-03-2014, 06:41 PM
#541
Senior Member
Basil, I don't think that the valve adjusters are loosening. I think that it is just the parts wearing-in. I just adjusted my valves this morning. The clearances had increased, but the locknuts on the adjusters were still nice and tight. I adjust my clearances the same way as Tyor. Hey, I just noticed that you live an hour away from me.
02-03-2014, 06:43 PM
#542
Senior Member
Hi there, are you sure it would be a clockwise movement to get the spark closer to TDC? I'm pretty sure I've moved mine counter-clockwise, in other words... in the direction of rotation so that the magnet passes the pick-up later in the rotation thus sparking closer to TDC rather than way before TDC.
I hope that I have my theory right abd that I have moved in the right direction!!!
I hope that I have my theory right abd that I have moved in the right direction!!!
02-03-2014, 07:00 PM
#543
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: BlenheimMarlborough, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have I got it right?
Alf
02-03-2014, 07:03 PM
#544
Senior Member
Yes... I think I see the confusion!! If you could and did move the magnet it would have to move in the clockwise direction to retard, but as the magnet can't easily be moved we have moved the pick-up in the opposite direction.... counter-clockwise.
Have I got it right?
Alf
Have I got it right?
Alf
The post you were answering cited moving the magnet.
02-03-2014, 08:51 PM
#545
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: stockton,
CA
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE= Did yours come with an ESM model perchance????[/QUOTE]
No, this was a CMP model. Actually, the gas here in California is spiked with ethanol, and I guess the asian stopper wasn't up to that. Our domestic stoppers seem to hold up fine.
No, this was a CMP model. Actually, the gas here in California is spiked with ethanol, and I guess the asian stopper wasn't up to that. Our domestic stoppers seem to hold up fine.
02-03-2014, 11:02 PM
#546
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Istanbul, TURKEY
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Engine turns counterclockwise(looking at from front). If sensor slides same way, ignition retards. If advance needed then sensor should be moved against rotation.(clockwise).
Last edited by Turk1; 02-04-2014 at 12:11 AM.
02-04-2014, 08:35 AM
#547
it is verry easy to check the timing of the ignition. The prophub has a diameter of 34mm. that give us a radius 17mm.
The circumference of the hub is 2x pi x r = 2 x 3.14 x 17 = 106.76mm
It is 360degrees in a circle. so 106.76 / 360 give us mm pr. degree. 106.76 / 360 = 0.29655555. one degre is about 0.3mm.
so if you want 40deg. advanced timing. you will meassure 12mm between center of the magnet and center of the cencor when your piston is att top.
40deg. is what it is set att the factory, and I have that on my val. But the one i have in the storch i had to set the timing to 30deg. that is the other type of this engine with 3 piston rings ang higher compresion.
The circumference of the hub is 2x pi x r = 2 x 3.14 x 17 = 106.76mm
It is 360degrees in a circle. so 106.76 / 360 give us mm pr. degree. 106.76 / 360 = 0.29655555. one degre is about 0.3mm.
so if you want 40deg. advanced timing. you will meassure 12mm between center of the magnet and center of the cencor when your piston is att top.
40deg. is what it is set att the factory, and I have that on my val. But the one i have in the storch i had to set the timing to 30deg. that is the other type of this engine with 3 piston rings ang higher compresion.
02-04-2014, 09:15 AM
#548
Senior Member
it is verry easy to check the timing of the ignition. The prophub has a diameter of 34mm. that give us a radius 17mm.
The circumference of the hub is 2x pi x r = 2 x 3.14 x 17 = 106.76mm
It is 360degrees in a circle. so 106.76 / 360 give us mm pr. degree. 106.76 / 360 = 0.29655555. one degre is about 0.3mm.
so if you want 40deg. advanced timing. you will meassure 12mm between center of the magnet and center of the cencor when your piston is att top.
40deg. is what it is set att the factory, and I have that on my val. But the one i have in the storch i had to set the timing to 30deg. that is the other type of this engine with 3 piston rings ang higher compresion.
The circumference of the hub is 2x pi x r = 2 x 3.14 x 17 = 106.76mm
It is 360degrees in a circle. so 106.76 / 360 give us mm pr. degree. 106.76 / 360 = 0.29655555. one degre is about 0.3mm.
so if you want 40deg. advanced timing. you will meassure 12mm between center of the magnet and center of the cencor when your piston is att top.
40deg. is what it is set att the factory, and I have that on my val. But the one i have in the storch i had to set the timing to 30deg. that is the other type of this engine with 3 piston rings ang higher compresion.
Starting (retarded) ignition advance should be around 4° BTDC for gas, 10° BTDC for methanol.
The only way to truely check ignition timing is W/a stop & degree wheel.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1774802
Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 02-04-2014 at 09:17 AM.
02-04-2014, 09:19 AM
#549
Senior Member
it is verry easy to check the timing of the ignition. The prophub has a diameter of 34mm. that give us a radius 17mm.
The circumference of the hub is 2x pi x r = 2 x 3.14 x 17 = 106.76mm
It is 360degrees in a circle. so 106.76 / 360 give us mm pr. degree. 106.76 / 360 = 0.29655555. one degre is about 0.3mm.
so if you want 40deg. advanced timing. you will meassure 12mm between center of the magnet and center of the cencor when your piston is att top.
40deg. is what it is set att the factory, and I have that on my val. But the one i have in the storch i had to set the timing to 30deg. that is the other type of this engine with 3 piston rings ang higher compresion.
The circumference of the hub is 2x pi x r = 2 x 3.14 x 17 = 106.76mm
It is 360degrees in a circle. so 106.76 / 360 give us mm pr. degree. 106.76 / 360 = 0.29655555. one degre is about 0.3mm.
so if you want 40deg. advanced timing. you will meassure 12mm between center of the magnet and center of the cencor when your piston is att top.
40deg. is what it is set att the factory, and I have that on my val. But the one i have in the storch i had to set the timing to 30deg. that is the other type of this engine with 3 piston rings ang higher compresion.