CLBetten

My Feedback: (16)

I have a much greater vested interest in ST. I have 22 engines, 8 of which I am flying regularly.

BillS

ST engines
If US and other Government's were to stop supporting overpriced Alcohol as a gasoline additive, Alcohol should return to market price. Alcohol market price would immediately be considerably less than government supported price. A small price event would change the engine sales dynamics.


Maybe glow engines would become popular again.

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

The alcohol used in automobile gasoline is Ethanol, made mainly from corn. The alcohol used in model fuel is Methanol, derived from cracking petroleum. The price of one does not affect the price of the other. The expensive ingredients in model fuels are the lubricants and the nitromethane. The methanol is very inexpensive. A gallon retails at about $14.00, and will cost quite a bit less if purchased in quantity. Nitromethane can exceed $50.00/gal. Oil is about $15.00/qt. Add in the needed profit margin for the fuel maker, the distributor, and the retailer, and you can see why model fuel costs what it does.

The cost of glow fuel is not affected by the cost of the ethanol used in automobile gasoline.

1QwkSport2.5r

Bax - I'm not sure where you get your pricing from, but methanol retails for about $2.50-$4.00/gal depending on location. Oil is $7-$10/Qt or $25-$40/Gal for average oils (castor, Klotz, cool power, etc). Nitro is on average about $50-$60/Gal in small quantities which you're accurate on. Around my neck of the woods, aircraft fuel is $30-$38/gal for 5-15% nitro and car fuel 20-30% nitro is $32-$40/gal depending on brand. Mixing my own fuel cuts my fuel cost by 60% or better.

Of course this has nothing to do with the thread subject but oh well.

Sport_Pilot

Bax's price is about right if you buy in small quantities from a hardware store, but if you buy from a racing fuel supplier it will cost $3 to $4. And even less in large quantity from an industrial supplier as a fuel mixing company would do.

jeffie8696

"OH.....and the best info passed to us about SuperTigre engines is that negotiations with a maker are in progress and we should just hang on. I'm not privy to what any particulars may be."
Lets just take this from the thread and be happy there is some communication occurring and hope for the best.

1QwkSport2.5r

I get methanol from a gas station about 15 minutes from my house. There are no hardware stores within a 100 mile radius, possibly even statewide that sell pure methanol. Best I found was denatured alcohol with the SLX Kleanstrip brand which is said to be 50/50 methanol/ethanol. The SLX stuff per gallon is indeed $12-14/gallon but doesn't work nearly as well as the $3/gal straight methanol. I can get nitromethane from the gas station I get the methanol from but the smallest quantity they deal with of that stuff are 20gal barrels which ends up being about $30/gal. This I order online by the gallon for $50/gal usually and free shipping.

Buying model engine oil from a hobby shop is about $6-8 per pint which is purely ludicrous. In todays society of ordering online, one can save a ton of money and even get free shipping by going online. Yeah, that doesn't support local shops but if the hobby shop won't order the stuff I would buy, then it's moot. If a guy wants to use the exotic synthetics like Aerosave or Motul Micro, expect to pay $80/gal plus shipping. The real reason glow fuel costs what it does is due to the hazmat fees imposed on mixed glow fuel in containers larger than 1 quart. Most fuel is $20-25/gal from the manufacturer but when you tack on $35 for shipping and hazmat per 4-gallon case and then add markup, you get the crazy hobby shop pricing. At least up here in the Midwest. As with anything, it comes down to location location location.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

In order to get back to Super Tigers, let me point out that you will go crazy if you try and figure out gasoline pricing.

BillS

I owned a Yamaha Franchise during the 70's. At the time average oil consumption was 1 oil to 100 gasoline. Rod bearings were needle roller and crank bearings were ball bearings. Huge amounts of oil were simply unnecessary. Better carbs, needle roller rod bearings and hardened crank pins were probably necessary along with variable ignition timing.


A 125cc would turn in excess of 11,000 RPM. We had transmissions to get the engine on the curve.

hsukaria

For pete's sake, everybody keeps saying $3/gal of methanol from a gas station or racetrack. I have been asking around town for a long time now and nobody sells it. They even look at me stupid when I ask for methanol. Must be a regional thing. It doesn't help that most of the gas station attendants around here barely speak English anyway.

1QwkSport2.5r

The average run-of-the-mill gas station like SuperAmerica, Holiday, etc. won't have it. You're going to need to call around. The place I get methanol from is a small Marathon gas station that deals with all sorts of fuels. It took me some time to find the place I go to because they don't have a website. If you're in a rural area, it's gonna by tougher to find. Maybe I'm just lucky, maybe not.

hsukaria

Yeah!!! You're lucky.

But then, I'm lucky because I have a local hobby shop that still sells glow fuel cheap. Plus, I can buy a whole bunch at the Toledo Show in the Spring, only an hour drive from home.

Now about those Super Tigre engines, are they really re-designing them? What will they be like? The new Thunder Tiger 46 is one slick engine. I'm intrigued!!

Hemikiller

My Feedback: (125)

Look for an automotive speed parts shop, race track or a kart/motorcycle shop. Most gas stations will not carry methanol, but just about every race track has a methanol pump for the alcohol car classes.

Milan Dragway is about 45 minutes from you. Might be worth investigating.

http://www.milandragway.com/

1QwkSport2.5r

There is an oil company near you in Muskegon that might have it. I tried calling them but they're busy and didn't answer. Check this site, it might help if the link Hemikiller doesn't work out. http://oil-and-gas.regionaldirectory.us/michigan.htm

I have a couple race tracks in the area but none of them have alcohol classes. Just gasoline. Brainerd International Raceway (Brainerd, MN) does Top Fuel and Funny cars among other things and I'm sure they have fuel but that's one hell of a drive.

hsukaria

Thanks for the links, but it is a lot easier for me to buy the pre-made glow fuel. Driving my truck for 45-60 minutes each way to buy methanol negates the cost benefit and I am not going to haul more than 5 gallons anyway.

But I am curious about the fate of Super Tigre engines. I suppose if parts got sparse, the only big part to worry about is the carb, and that can be replaced by any brand that fits. Any muffler can be installed using a handmade adapter. The ring is Frank Bowman, and the bearings from BOCA or RC Bearings. The only issue is the ABC versions, then you are out of luck.

049flyer

My Feedback: (18)

Powermaster glow fuel is made by VP Racing Fuels and is a very small part of their main business of producing fuels for full scale race cars, airplanes and also pre-mixed fuels for small gas engines and weed trimmers. I would give them a call to find a dealer of their racing fuel products in your area, that dealer is sure to have methanol on tap and maybe Klotz and Castor oil too. He might be able to get some Castor Oil and Nitro added to his next VP Racing order.

Pywacket

My Feedback: (24)

I need a crankshaft for a 2300 think he can help?

davevh

Everything is free, we humans just slap a price tag on things
Air was once free, now we have the FAA. See where I am going? Sorry, just being a little philosophical. There some truly free things out there; freedom to be stupid and arrogant comes to mind.

To the OP, from what I recall on some of my st engines, I was advised to drill all the way through the muffler bolt holes, getting rid of the threads and using nuts. Worked pretty well for me. Pity parts are scarce, I had great times with these engines (though the big heavy mufflers always confused me!)

pacoflyer

My Feedback: (23)

How about a spray bar/needle valve assembly for a ST34 ?

Thanks,
paul

aspeed

Sometimes you can solder up the needle hole, and use a remote needle. The stock muffler is a big mistake IMHO. It is heavy and sticks forward too far. It breaks the mounting tabs on the motor too easily. I have got quite a few used ones like that. It takes a bit of machining to fix, so I don't mind, but it is kind of a bad design. A header and pipe is maybe a good thing, not mainly for power, but just as a muffler. I wonder if anyone is going to restart the company, that would be nice to give OS a run for the money. Not just a Mecoa type liquidation, but an aggressive company.

aspeed

This guy has control line type needle valves. http://www.clstunt.com/products.htm

hsukaria

The stock ST muffler has always stayed in the box it came in. I always used a MACs one-piece muffler because it is so light. The ST40/45/51 are lighter than the OS46/55 without the mufflers. When you add the muffler, the ST weight will equal the OS weight. So, gotta take advantage of that.
That is a great idea about the remote needle to replace a damaged needle. There are many brands that can be used for remote needles.

Mike06659

If SuperTiger comes back it will have to be a gas line-up of engines like OS is starting to do. I think it will be very hard to buy a "new" glow engine after 5yrs from now. Suppliers will just stop carrying them because a lack of sales. I love the smell of glow but hated the mess on my planes. Gas and electric will our future.
Mike

jeffie8696

I was told at Toledo that the Super Tigres were being redesigned , I took it with a grain of salt.

earlwb

I think that the only glow engine companies that make glow engines now are CS and Sanye (ASP, Evolution, SC, and so on). The other companies quit making the glow engines for various reasons, but mainly because they weren't making enough money if any at it. But Sanye is part of a large conglomerate that primarily deals with making military stuff, so for now they don't mind making model glow engines. CS seems to have a specialty market for glow and model diesel engines so they have something going there to let them keep at it. All of their low cost engines undercutting each other and everyone else has now impacted them too.

It is more difficult and expensive to make glow or diesel engines, as you basically have to make all the parts for it yourself. Plus wages and costs have been rising more and more too. At first it was a good way to keep their million dollar CNC machines operating 24 hours a day to make things too. Then business for making other things that are more profitable becomes more and more important.

But for gasoline engines, you can leverage the parts from other gasoline engines to make your own. So you don't have to custom make all of the parts for gasoline engines. You can buy all the parts, maybe design and CNC machine up a crankcase, and you have a engine. Technically you can buy all of the gas engine parts from various sources and simply put together a engine, You don't have to do any machining or custom fabrication. That is why you can see something like 100 or so Chinese companies making gas engines, but now only a few, if that many, that make glow engines.