Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

The new parts have a certain amount of roughness to them, that is of course much better than it used to be. This roughness causes additional friction which causes extra heat early in an engines life. I still use this schedule that has worked so well for me and others.
For the first 10 minutes I follow Saito's/Horizon's recommendation of 4,000 rpm max @ 1/4 to 1/3rd throttle then their recommendation gets hazy. So, I use my own suggestion on it.

10 minutes @ 5,000
10 minutes @ 6,000, set needles closer to optimum but nowhere near lean
10 minutes @ 7,000 with brief shot to full throttle
10 more minutes @ various throttle settings, setting LS needle, go fly it's as broken in as it's going to get. 16 to 32 oz of fuel depending on engine size. Honest.

PS, when I was rebuilding the 1.30 I had ordered new valves for it. I forgot to cancel the back order for them. They came the other day and I just got done installing them.

acdii

I'll have to double check, but I think it is the 13x8 APC, though I might have put a 12x6 on it for the LT-40. The OS had an 11x7.5 APC. It is in the trailer though with a pile of snow around it.

Charley

My Feedback: (2)

I've always felt that I should break a new engine in on the prop I was planning to fly it with. Or a prop that was close in RPM range anyway. Same thing with the fuel too.

CR

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

hey, check out this 90 on a 4 Star, my Saito 100 Too-Win is going-na look so coowl on my 4 Star 60 clipped wing

LOL love the popping bubbling sound


Jim

demetrisrc

I agree . These engines need patience. Once they broke in you will love them so much

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

So true, no need to pamper them, (Saito glow that is) after the first 10 minutes @ 4,000, but still bad to torture them before about 45 minutes to an hour. I used the same method on the FG 11 even though the instructions are somewhat different. It worked perfectly.

Other brands with steel liners need some serious babying for a couple hours at least.

Welcome Dem, I see your first post as a Saito fan is a good one. Thanks

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

"braking in" just stuff to talk about, you know

the well known Saito guru "Bill Robison",, as well as Randy from MECOA and OS's Baxter, and other authorities on both RC Engines and full size Engines of all kinds have all said the same, that the Ring (s) "Seat" almost instantly when the engine is first started. my question about that is "but does the Liner also Seat that fast ??" ,, my thinking on this is with the Liner being Crosshatched there would still be some "Blowby", or more Blowby than the engine will have after 2 or 3 more gallons of running time,, and in my mind this is why many people have said that there engine took 2 or 3 gallons of fuel before the engine's vibrations settled down,, sO, even thO the Ring is Seated when the engine is first ran the engine is not fully Broken-in until the Liner is worn more,, to give my example on this, I had a Zenoah 23cc for a boat, the engine was water cooled, I made a Bench Mount for it to brake it in, with the water hooked up and the engine started for the first time I could see it Vibrate quite a bit, I let it run above Idle where it seemed to vibrate less, but still the vibrations were well noticeable to see, well after it ran for about an hour> as I watched I saw the vibration just quickly calmed down and the engine smooth-out quite a bit in the time it took to take 2 breaths (yes, just that quickly !!), I was some surprised to see just how that engine settled down in such a way (NOTE that this engine was never revved-up over that RPM I set it at until after it stopped vibrating so much)..

edited> something else when braking-in a plane engine on the bench,,, we all know in the air the engine unloads but on the bench it does not unload, so my thoughts on this, is, if we are going to fly a 16X6 in the air, it may be a good thing when braking the engine in "on the bench" to use a 16X5 or 16X4, because I feel we would want to mock the same RPM as close as we can on the bench as the engine unloads in the air, so in short> if an engine unloads to 10,500 in the air we should mock that same number as close as possible when braking in on the bench

just my thoughts on all this braking in stuff, yet I'm willing to learn more

Jim

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

happy happy joy joy no problem posting today !!



Jim

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

I called some attention to it, that's good news also.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

This Saito High Compression 1.50 cylinder was replaced at 22 years old because I ham fisted the jam nut in the intake port. You can see that much of the cross hatch is still in it. Based on that most of the breaking in is the ring, may be why the break in is so short. I'm just guessing.

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

thanks Dave for helping !!

you know I have a MVVS 35cc Gasser, bought it brand new, no Crosshatching, non, not any, I wondered how that works, how does a ring seat if there is no Crosshatching ?? but it did

BTW, what a nice and powerful engine

Jim

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

It may be a little like the Stop Sign at the end of your driveway, there is one there even if you can't see it. Some of the Maloney's had egg shaped rings, they would never seat in. I have two 1.25's neither had that problem.

acdii

Crosshatching is there for oil control. The grooves hold oil to keep the rings lubricated. Since the only way to get oil into the crank is through the gap in the ring, there are no oil control rings on the pistons like in a car engine, or any engine with an oil sump. IOW you don't want the cross hatching to go away. The break in is more for the crank pin, cam lobes and rockers than the piston and sleeve, since these are metal to metal bearing surfaces, and need time to bed properly. Once they get a good polish on them, resistance is reduced and they spin easier. A properly broken in engine will have smooth cylinder walls with well defined cross hatching, no grooves, and the tappets, followers, cam, and crank pin should have a nice smooth surface with some shine to it.

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

I don't know ??, I had the head off when it was first started, the lower part of the Plug Cap is held on with the Plug, it was leaking and I had to Lapp it to the head to stop the leak, I had a good look at it's Liner and I couldn't see any Crosshatching.

edit, I love that engine, it pulled my 15+ pound 80" GeeBeeY up pretty high, turned a 3W 20X8 at 7300+ and a Zinger Pro 20X8 to 7680 (muffler is the Bission Inverted Side Muffler),, I flew the 3W 20X8..

acdii, that was well put, thank you

Jim

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

I had a few MVVS over the years, great engines, smooth running and powerful. I still have a couple of their mufflers, I think.

Rudolph Hart

Welcome dem,do you own a saito 125 as well?

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Yes sir, and all that stuff has cosmoline or similar on/in it. It comes out over about 20 minutes run time.

acdii

Yep, that brown goo of wth?!?! Forgot to mention the followers, they need time to polish too, and they are right up against the aluminum, and probably take the longest to bed.

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

like the old Chevy Corvair engines, they didn't have Cam Bearings, just the Aluminum block

Jim

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

The cam followers/lifters actually ride in a bronze sleeve, I just played with a new Cam cover and two new lifters, the fit is so good that the lifters just fall,through.

New and old style.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

I just did some diggin and the early open rocker engines had the lifters running directly on/in the the bare aluminum as stated by ACDC. The bronze lifter bores started with the first .45 called the .45-1. Now we know some stuff we didn't know before.

http://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Eng...20%281%29.html

acdii

I'll have to take a look at my newer Saito, the old .45 I have was aluminum bored.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Is it one of the removable head .45's, thanks, it has pin through the intake holding the bronze intake port.

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

most likely my 100 will be shipped tomorrow, he got the money order today, box and tools too,, oh boy, come to papa little Saito

Jim

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

boy I tell you, I really screwed up when I bought that Magnum 180FRS new, I should have just sailed the classified waves and found a good deal on a Saito 180, it would have been the better thing to do, better and smarter,, but I didn't,,,,

but that's all behind me now LOL

Jim