jmercer52

My Feedback: (14)

I was reading another thread about an engine starting up backwards when using a chicken stick..... This is 2002.... why would anybody use a "stick" to start an engine anyway? A good electric starter only cost $20 bucks and IMHO is a lot safer! And I have never had an engine start up backwards while using one either. Come on fellows...break down and buy a cheap electric starter and move on into the new era. Any comments on this?
Danny Mercer
Rome, Ga.

:spinnyeye

Jim_McIntyre

I use the "prop flick backwards against compression" method to start my engines.

The only time I use my electric starter now is when I fly heli or when I get a balky engine and there's a time limit on starting at a contest/show.

Electric starters can kill a good engine if used incorrectly.

C_Watkins

My Feedback: (10)

Most of us already have one, by now. It's not the cost, generally.
It's a horrible thing to do to our little engines, I believe, but I have to admit it is safer.
I still hand prop all my stuff... I pull out the starter only when absolutely necessary.
(Which is generally never on my OS engines, and 25% of the time on the others)

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Once you develope the knack, engines can be started quite safely with a simple back flip even without a chicken stick. Big Saitos can be started with a quick back flip from the tip of the spinner. After priming of course.

bob_nj

My Feedback: (62)

As someone else stated, once you get to know these little guys, they're fairly predictable. The only thing I use a starter for is to get the oil distributed after the flying is over for the day. I pull the plug, shoot a generous amount of oil in the venturi (2 strokes) and hit it with the starter. VRRrrooooommmm

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

I use an electric starter on my glow engines (1.2) and stick on my gas (2.4). I never touch the propeller with my hand!

seanychen

My Feedback: (4)

Large 4-stroke engines like to be started w/ a back-flip via chicken stick. In fact, when these large 4-stroke engine is a little over-primed, it is hard to start it w/ electric starter; in fact, it may kick back and throw off the starter, and starter drive cone will damage the spinner. On other hand, when the engine is hot, electric starter is the only thing that will start the engine. So I have both the stick and starter. The starter is most useful to me at the end of flying day when I have to run the fuel dry in the engine: this is when the electric starter is advantageous.

Also, I spend a lot of money on these large aluminum spinners. I hate to mess them up unnecesarrily w/ electric starter unless I really have to.

So, depending on what engine you have, use the stick or starter appropriately. But never turn a prop w/ bare finger when the glow battery is on. The kick-back is just not worth it.

Mettler1

I learned how to start engines by hand in my control line combat days. When the judge counted down to .00 you started the engine in one flip and were in the air in one second. If it took you two flips you were already behind in points.


These days I use a heavy glove to start the engine. Don't like to carry around the starter and battery. Also I just hate to put a Tru-Turn spinner on the plane and then booger it up jammin' a starter into it.

You will find most accidents happen when flyers stick they're fingers into the prop AFTER the engine is started.

By the way I got very good at it after getting whacked numerous times. Sort of like getting whacked by a nun for poor penmanship.


For those just starting out in the hobby get a starter.
Experience is usually gained from pain or money spent!!!

bob_nj

My Feedback: (62)

Man, that brings back memories! Worse if you were left handed like I am :stupid: The latin word for left is "Sinister" and man did you get wacked if you were a southpaw

TexasAirMedic

My Feedback: (2)

i'm used to doing the starter on smaller 2 strokes.. now I have a 4 stroke and would prefer to hand start it .. so

stating that , you are turning the prop CLOCKWISE until you feel the piston at TDC, then, I guess nudge or flip it in that direction, and let the compression force it in the correct counter-clockwise direction ? I'm just wanting to understand exactly how you're doing that..

bla bla

Use a starter, a chichen stick, flip the sninner, use your fingers, flip forwards and bounch backwards... if it starts your engine then it's good.
Theres isn't any one that is correct and all methods should be part of a flyers repertoire.

Mettler1

With a 4 stroke I prime it 'till the fuel runs out the exhaust, turn it over 3 or4 times to make sure it doesn't hyrolock. Then I connect the glow starter and turn it over (counter clockwise) untill I feel it kick. It's ready! Rotate the prop [gently] CLOCKWISE 'till it hits compression, rotate counter clockwise 1/2 turn. Now, I use a HEAVY (thick) glove and slap the prop clockwise. It hits compression and kicks counter clockwise and it should be running. You can also use a chicken stick or flip the spinner. I never did get spinner flip right.

Just make sure you don't have the throttle open full! I usually start at a high idle. After a few tries you will probably get first flip starts most of the time.

As always, keep you hands away from a spinning prop. I've seen a few flyers that didn't! NOT GOOD!!!

Hope this helps. Tom

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Keep in mind that this is not necessarily true with all four strokes. I always start mine the same way I'd start a two stroke, you just have to give a little more pressure during the flip. But sometimes, whether it's due to fuel ratio, weather conditions, or whatever, when you try to flip it throught the compression, it will predetonate and kick your hand back in the other direction (It REALLY wants to pop!). It usually won't run backwards because the pressure you were putting on it will keep it from reaching the next compression stroke. Ok, so I will usually give it a quick flip in the opposite direction, letting the stick slide off the end of the prop and usually (when it's in this condition) it starts.

Now, some guys, depending on their starting proceedure find that their engine is usually in this condition, so they just don't bother trying to flip it counter clockwise anymore.

Ya just do whatever works!

TexasAirMedic

My Feedback: (2)

thanx guys.. I did the break-in on a stand.. now it's in the plane but it's not finished..I'll try that method when I get it ready to go ..

ramcharger

I use an electric starter on everything, G23 gas, OS91 Surpass, and all my 2 cycles. As someone said previously, I don't put my hand on a hot prop. There is simply no money it.

downunder-RCU

OK, I'll make a comment on this. I've always hand started because I began in CL. But when my son decided to get into models I refused to allow him to use an electric starter at first. I told him that I would teach him how to hand start because that was the only way he would get to know what an engine needs to start quickly. He got the feel for compressions, he got the feel for how to prime correctly. Now he can tell if an engine is worn out or not, he knows if it's flooded or dry, he knows if it's ready to start. Once he reached that stage I told him to use an electric starter if he wished. He still hand starts because he enjoys knowing he can safely do it.

An electric starter is fine IF you understand engines. I've watched guys destroying an engine by just trying the brute force method because they didn't know any better.

As for moving into the new era...I presume Suptter only uses the latest fuel injected engines?

rajul

My Feedback: (58)

Hello Jim ! I use an electric starter. Never knew that a starter can cause that much damage. What are some of the precautions to take ?

Also I've heard of the term "hydrolock". What is this ? Thanks

FlyingZee

Earlier in the post, there was a question about the reverse flip method. I had not seen this until recently, and now it is what I prefer to use. What I do is grab the very TIP of the spinner and, starting with the prop almost to the counter-clockwise compression point, I give it a quick flip clockwise. When it hits the compression point, it fires and sends it in the proper direction. I am REALLY big on safety, as I like having all of my fingers. I stay very clear of the prop, and I only do this with a large spinner. I make sure that my hands are clear of the spinner when it fires.

Sometimes, the engine can be a bit fussy in the morning, and I use the electric starter.

My understanding of hydrolic lock is when you get too much liquid in the compression chamber. The way this can hurt an engine is that you are giving it a quick jolt with the starter. The liquid can not be compressed, so somethinghas to give. The weakest point is in the engine parts, so they give. Please tell me where I am wrong in this.

Zee

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Correct

jmercer52

My Feedback: (14)

Downunder, I wish I could afford a fuel injected engine! I just think it's a lot safer to use an electric starter. Engines are replacable......Fingers are NOT. I also do not prime an engine before trying to start it. I let the engine pull fuel to the carb on it's own and have never had one "hydrolock" with me. Maybe I'm lucky.....but I still have all my fingers too! I have never had any engine break by using an electric starter and they always start in the right direction. What ever floats your boat, do it. As for me, I'll keep using a starter and keep my fingers to fly with.
Danny Mercer
Rome, Ga.

ramcharger

You can prime your engine when using an electric starter provided your plane is secured. Simply put your finger over the muffler exit. That is the way I see everyone use an electric starter
on a tough to start engine.

SwampFlier-RCU

I'ld say it depends (as most thing in life).... depends on the engine, depends on the people, depends on the hardware...
The engine:
In our club most everybody used OS's or ST's and everybody used a starter.. along came the Irvine's 1.50 and .53 and the back-flip method was tried.. lo and behold it worked no more ugly stripes on the plastic spinners.... now the method has worked on other but for the love of my.. I can't get those .40 LA's to fire with the stick or a cold super tigre either.
The people: some like chicken..some steak (rare that is) we use either a stick or starter as mentioned before one or two fellows use the fingers and had some cuts.. hence the rare steak.
The hardware:
I personally would hate to have starter grooves on the beautiful white spinner on my cloud dancer, plus the reliability of the Irvine makes it a breeze to fire it with a back flip. My son's trainer is banged up a little so we get the starter and crank it up.

To me..... there is also the added WOW!!! factor asociated with priming the beast, put the nicad.. one "casual" back flip and voila!!! the monster comes alive..... don't you remember the pride of older mechanics to have tha knack to start full size airplanes by turning the prop "just right"....... but now we traded that for the ignition switch and if it doesn' start as it should the first time, here come the expletives....

we went to a fly-in where most pilots use a starter and we came with a H9 cap 232 (27%) and the big Irvine... by the time we fired it for the 3rd time we had quite a crowd learning....

My $0.02

Best Regards,
Patrick

downunder-RCU

Well seeing rajul asked about precautions..

You can get a hydraulic lock if the cylinder lays over past horizontal. Excess fuel then fills the combustion chamber because it can't run out the exhaust port. Hit it with the starter and something's going to give. Either the starter slips on the spinner or the weakest link in the engine will give. That's usually the con rod and it either bends or breaks. A bent rod is easy to diagnose because the engine will get tight to turn even with the plug removed. So with an inverted engine ALWAYS turn the prop over by hand a couple of times before using the starter. If the compression suddenly feels a bit higher than usual then it's on the verge of locking.

If you have a bushed engine then it MUST have the steel thrust washer fitted between the prop driver and the crankcase. This is the only thing stopping alloy to alloy contact from the pressure of the starter pushing the crankshaft back. It's wise to put a few drops of fuel on it before using the starter to make sure it's got at least some lubrication.

Don't expect fuel to get drawn into the carb just by spinning over with the starter. This is where real damage can be done. The engine must be primed first in whatever your favourite way is. I once watched 2 guys spinning over an engine for a couple of minutes waiting for it to fire up. It didn't so I had a look at it. There was black oil coming out past the prop driver, it was a bushed engine and the crank was almost seized in the bush from lack of fuel. I got it freed up for them but who knows what condition the piston and liner were in?? Do that with a ball raced engine and either the piston or rod will go first.

rajul

My Feedback: (58)

Thanks downunder, or should I say "good dye mate" ! Can hydrolock occur in upright engines ? Can hydrolock occur if the crankcase becomes flooded ? Appreciate your comments.................

Boomstriker

If I didn't need it for my helis, I wouldn't carry my starter.

I start a OS.10 and AP.15 all the way to a TT120, G38 and 62 by hand. I don't own a 4s.

As Downunder said;
When you have the experience to know 'exactly what it takes' to hand-start an engine with one flip, it's very easy and safe.

If you always use a starter, you'll may never learn.

Here's some tips:

*Prime with carb open, plug exhaust or intake and NO GLOW.
*Always flip-start at idle or just above - NEVER WHEN OPEN
*Don't forget to dull the sharp edge of a new prop (trailing if you flip CCW)

Kirk