gunneredwards

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I have been busy looking for a job and last week I built a deck for our daughter... glad they can afford the lumber, but at least it kept me busy for a couple days.

raydar

A video from utube, not me flying btw. I have hovered mine with a 91fs, high and badly mind you, wish I had the skills on the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNqTb0na0jQ

Steveibrc

Great to hear from you all and welcome Gunneredwards. I have been all up in some remodeling here at the house over the last few days. That and working on the hog every spare minute. Those videos are awesome....That would be one 'porked' hog if i tried that Getting late, more later. Long day tomorrow....

Steveibrc

Hello all! Been kinda slack tending to the thread. A day or two has turned to 4 or 5. Lots going on with a house remodeling and the end of the hog build 'Betty Bumble' flew today for the first time. It went great and went through a couple tanks of fuel......And I still got an airplane! Thank You Lord! No real surprises and just a few minor mechanical hickups, mainly on the gear. Had a collet in the gear to slip. Even with a flat spot on the shaft and locktite. Caused a few gyrations on the last couple takeoffs with a tire rubbing on the pants.,

First flight setup was CG @ 25% (maybe more like 23 or 24) (I heeded your advice Daddyo) Throws were as set as close as i could get to the published numbers. exponential was at 30 percent across the board except rudder, which was at 20. A friend , Tommy Paterson, was kind enough to do the first flight and did a great job. Needed a bit of left roll trim and a few clicks of down. Hard to tell with that much wind

Raydar, you are spot on. You gotta love it!!!! Solid and smooth, and that was saying something with the winds we had today. The local club field is plowed under to be releveled, and we all met up on the sod farms. Through a mixup the .last half of the day we flew off a rough area that dealt me several noseovers. Nicked a prop on one of them.

Got one of the glow batteries that i can move aft about three inches, and i am out of bullets on shifting weight around to get CG moved aft unless i jump over former F5 and figure out a way to get the battery in the tail boom. Since i am running the Dubro gear i can block it forward. Also i will add a bit more up elevator travel. Hopefully between these three things the nose over thing will go away. The general consensus in the threads was to move the gear forward, and i should have listened. Especially as heavy as that twin is. If all else fails i can redrill the gear plate. I built it over sized just in case.

Can't get over how well it flew! Really look forward to getting it dialed in and start getting the feel of it. Gunneredwards good luck on the job thing and your hog build. You are off to a great start! Just don't rush it too hard. After all, the build is half the fun!

Got a few pics and a piece of lousy video that i will upload later. Regards to all!

Daddyo57

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Steviebrc, glad to hear you flew your Hog Bipe!!!!! Cool! I am like you and hate to add weight but sometimes you just have too... I still havent added the needed weight to my Bipe yet, I plan to do that this morning in fact. I am going to add at least 2 oz then recheck CG. I think if i was flying off of anything other than concrete or pavement I would take off the wheelpants, I have never flown off of grass but I sure would love to! I find it interesting that you needed to add down elevator too... I am now wondering if it is partially due to aft CG? maybe not but a thought... I will pay attention to my trim after I add the nose weight. I am hoping for a low wind day soon... Do you feel the 90 twin has sufficient power for this airplane? I am thinking a large as possible prop will help, i am glad I was able to put a 16 inch prop on the 95X. i went with the cheesy screws provided as axles for my Bipe, I am hoping it stands up well to use.

Steveibrc

Daddyo, Yup she flew good..... cg was way forward. Tweeked my homemade balance stand design tonight. It had some possible interference points that i was struggling with before the maiden flight that called for some rework. That, and i have a better handle on what i am doing. First flight cg was about 23 maybe 24 percent if that. Well forward of the forward limit.. With that cg, across the speed range, it still needed some nose down trim which turned out to be about 1/8 or so down. Three clicks. Not that much. That would seem to me to be in conflict with what you would think it should be with such a forward cg. In fact, when i read your post this morning, it kinda jared me because my first reaction was the same as yours. Why am i needing a bit of down elevator with such a forward cg? This is in addition to the known .3 to .4 nose down incidence, (trailing edge of stabilizer is slightly lower than the front edge), that i inadvertantly built into the tail. Again, it was hard to tell how much down trim was needed over the full speed range as windy as it was yesterday. I feel good about the wing incidences. Spot on according to the meter, and it is not exibiting the nasty charastics that i understand happen if those numbers are out of whack. All control throws are set at published recomendations with 30 percent exponential across the board with the exception of rudder which is at 20 percent.

That being said i feel sure the need for some down elevator lies in needing some down thrust in the engine mount. You think? For sure the cg needed moving aft, the balance stand don't lie. The cg needed moving aft at least into the forward part of the cg range,

I have moved the radio pack into the tail boom. It is now installed in the turtledeck in front of F6. With it in that position, on the stand with the thrust line level, the cg is at 27 to 28 percent. Well forward of the aft limit and close to the front limit. . Before you think i have lost my mind and not reading the stand and situation right, i have that twin in the nose, and it is way heavier than a single cylinder engine. The airplane would nose over at drop of a hat is another indicator. Now that i have moved the battery pack back about 4 inches, i know this will lead to needing a bit more down trim and the need should be just a simple matter of not enough down thrust. Two things going on there concurrently is my thinking. I am definately open to you thoughts my friend. I sure don't want to do somthing stupid. Any advise from the hog community on this and as to wheather anyone has had to add downthrust would be greatly appreciated.

The other things in your post.... Wheel pants .... I ditched the screws and and am using steel axles. I cut the axles long enough that theyy went through to the outside of the pants and landed them in a hole in a ply plate glued to the inside of the outboard wall of the pants. Increases the toughness of the assembly tremendously. With any luck they will last a while that way has been my experience.

I have no experience with the 90 twin. The published power output of the 100 twin is 1.6 hp. I understand the 90 is considerably less. If you are thinking aabout installing a 90, i would think it would do well. We both need to weigh these airplanes and kick it around some more. I do not have my needles set properly yet. Just running safely rich and relying on the glow system to keep the fire in both jugs lit. That and not really putting my foot in it till i sort out the other issues.

As far as all i said above on tthe trim issues, i am in no hurry to fly again till i get it sorted out. Good luck on catching some decent weather my friend!!!!

Daddyo57

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Since you asked... I honestly feel the 90 twin is not near enough power for Aerobatics etc, for instance as a reference, I put a beautiful little Saito 80 twin into a Goldberg Cub, the Cub is quite a bit lighter (I think) than the Bipe and the wing area is huge. The little Saito twin was adequate for scale like performance, maybe on the order of a Saito 50 or a liitle higher, maybe a standard 46 2 stroke... I also have a Saito 80 singlecylinder and it is way more power than the twin 80. You will get more power after you can lean it off a bit but it wont put out the power of a single... Run as large diameter prop as you can without bogging it down, it probably wont turn up like a single. Dont get me wrong, I LOVE the twins as the cool factor is awesome.

On the down elevator trim, I was advised by an expert pilot with several world campionship wins in F3A and Pattern to just leave the trim "as is" and not to sweat it... I tend to overthink things and belive me my Bipe is plenty fast and manuverable etc as is so i am going to take his advice and just add 2 oz nose weight and fly her wings off LOL. I am fortunate in that my club dues get me access to an 800 foot concrete runway that is very smooth, I love wheel pants and this allows me to run them and sometimes even smaller wheels, but if I need to land in the rough I am hosed. I have to confess that I did my CG check with my fat finger balancing the airplane on the upper cabane support where I drew 3 lines as per the plans, I am on the forward line now, a bit nose down on an empty fuel tank, we will see how she flies with the additional 2 oz of lead I just installed on the nose. I would do a cursory check on everything and go fly the old girl. I am exited about flying my Bipe soon.

RICKSTUBBZ

Dan,
Good to see you posting. Good luck with the job hunt. Something has to give soon-Yes? By the way, even though it won’t fly, that deck looks good in the pictures.

Cliff,
What’s going on? Are you letting a little wind keep you grounded?

Steve,
Here is how you can determine the need for a change on engine up/down thrust:

Set your plane up to fly strait and level (elevator trim) at a desired cruise speed. Example - say you will cruise at about ¾ throttle, reserving the last bit of stick for loops and verticals. Then trim the plane to fly level at that speed, do a strait fly by as level as you can be. Once the plane is directly in front of you, immediately cut the throttle to idle. Take note of what the plane does. Particularly what it does in the first second or two. What it should do is gradually slow down and then start losing altitude slowly at first as the speed decreases.

If the plane suddenly darts up as soon as you cut the throttle (it will eventually start to lose altitude as it slows down) your plane is asking for more up incidence/thrust in the engine. This condition indicates that the engine/prop thrust is pulling the nose down while under power and once the prop force is gone the plane takes its natural course.

If the plane suddenly darts down before it even has a chance to lose any speed your plane is asking for more down incidence/thrust. Again, in this case the engine/prop thrust would be pulling the nose up and once the power is gone the plane takes its natural course.

After you do this test and adjust thrust if necessary - then do the test again, from the beginning trimmed flat and level flight……to confirm all is good. If you adjust up/down thrust of your engine, the elevator trim will most assuredly change. Again, pay close attention to what the plane does in the first second or two after cutting the throttle. After the first couple of seconds the plane has slowed enough that it should always start losing altitude. If it does not, you would be having a serious problem that is much bigger than engine thrust.[X(]

Will the balance point affect this test? Maybe a little bit but I would expect it to be minimal if you are in the balance point range to begin with. Keep in mind that tail heavy planes can fly pretty well under power. It is not until they slow down that the tail wants to drag (fall) enough to make a mess.

Steveibrc

Rick,

Thank you so much! Have read through your explanation. Will print it out and study on it. Knew there was someone that could put the proceidure in words, and really appreciate it. Was considering adding the down thrust tonight, but will wait for a calm day and do the test you have described first. Again, thanks!

Daddyo, i would be leary of putting a 90 twin in s hog also. Just not enough power and performance for this machine for you to probally be happy with.

My homemade balance stand and completed radio instalation. (before i moved the battery into the tail cone) Also one at the field the day of the maiden flight. ::

Daddyo57

My Feedback: (15)

Steve,For some dumb reason I thought you were running a 90 Saito twin... I am sure the 100 is much more powerful. I also think it is a great idea to run an onboard glow setup as I found the little 80 would barley run if one cylinder dropped out... That is a SWEET looking Hog Bipe!!!! I bet it looks great in the air too. I am going to add some more expo to my ailerons and elevator and reduce the throw on low rates, I have 3 rates on the ailerons and never tried the high rate during the test flight. High rate on the elevator was too high... I agree with Rick about the down thrust check, I recently found out how much a model can be improved with just a bit of right thrust on a SIG Fazer I have, now I can knife edge with it where as before without right thrust she wouldnt do it and the loops and stall turns were terrible because of torque. I am enclosing a pic of my little simple CG stand that works great for mono wings but obviously wont on my Bipe unless I knew the CG on the bottom wing... Top wing method is best in my opinion. I also added a pic of my Cub I built with the Saito 80 twin, it is a tight fit and I had to make the cowl 2 pieces but it turned out great. It is also sporting a hand made set of articulating, bungee sprung main gear I built last winter. I sold the Cub to finance another project.

Rick I was out flying today as a matter of fact! it was a little windy but right down the runway and not too choppy, I flew my Jerris Big Boy and my Uproar #2 that I just installed a GMS 47 on in place of the underpowered OS 46AX, it is like a brand new airplane!!!!! so fun to fly now! amazing... I will e-mail you soon, just been busy with Spring cleaning etc. I also built a SIG Riser 2 meter glider and did a few test throws today, sweet... I am waiting for my new surgical tubing for my Up-Start launcher to get a real flight in. O ur club is having a glider fly in next month so I want to fly it there. I need to get my Hog Bipe out and burn up the sky!!!! I can give big thumbs up to the OS 95 AX for ease of starting, Power and how quiet it is, great engine so far, I cant wait to break it in more, very smooth with little to no vibration.

I also wanted to add a pic of my radio bay, less suff in mine due to not having onboard glow, I went with the stock "Nyrod" type elevator and rudder setup, I have to say it works better than I expected, i usually shy away from those but said what the heck... I am starting to like pull pull setups more but this isnt a 3-D airplane or anything and the rudder isnt too big... i think it would be cool to build a Hog Bipe "Wild" with huge counter balanced elevators and rudder for 3-D type flight, I think the ailerons might be ok as is but maybe make them a bit bigger, but then you run into the possibility of flutter, this is a pretty fast airplane, faster than I expected for sure.

Steveibrc

Steveibrc

Cliff, You catching a hard time about flapping in the breeze I don't mind flying when it is windy, but not when it's choppy. Comes to a point you just cant react fast enough. Yes it's a 100, hard to keep up with who has what. So thats the cub with the 80 on it? Beautiful airplane, and with that 80 the preformance is probally alot like it was said of the full scale Cub. 'Flys so slow it can just barely kill you'. I know what you mean about weak when one lunging. I caught a piece of trash in a needle(acted like that was what it was) the day of the maiden flight on the 3rd hop. I was really concerned about making it back to the runway. Could barly maintain altitude. Pretty iffy for about 15 or so seconds though. Got my heart going for sure.

The butchers bill came in tonight from Bruno's grocery store. According to the produce scales, my build came in at 9 1/2 lbs. She is most definately a fat girl! I played with some weight numbers and the 'What If ' difference i came up with if i would have put in a Saito 125 (which i really considered doing) instead of the 100t was 8 ounces. Would have built out with the 2 color Worldtex and the way i equiped the airframe at 9 pounds with a 'normal' engine. Lol with that much weight, the only way i could compete with you performance wise is out running you in a dive.

I limbered up the incidence meter tonight and took another look at the numbers there also. And was in for a nice suprise. I wasn't handling the instrumentation right when i looked at the stab incidence before. Was trying to use the instrument on the stab with the wing brackets. when i layed the metal edge on top of the stab, the incidence was within .1 degree of the thrust line Skill problem on my part. Wing incidences are pretty much dead on.

More later, gotta run this morning, going to help doc work on his sailboat.

Daddyo57

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Wow I would love to live near the water and work on any boat!!! I know boats can be a pain too though. I am glad your measurements are that close to being perfect! lets face it, it doesnt take much to tweak it, i was a bit leary of the cabanes myself, they had to be slightly re bent just in order to even fit and they werent exactly straight... I have also inadvertantly induced a twist or bow wth the Monokote application... easilly fixed if you catch it. I weighed my Hog Bip last night and was amazed to find she weighs exactly 8.5 pounds... I am ok with that! I think a 125 Saito might be a bit much for the Hog but who knows? I am betting the Saito 100 is ideal as the guys were saying in one thread I was watching awhile back. My only problem with my 100 is getting it to idle low without quitting, I have it pretty darn close now but I also have it on a light airplane, an ugly U-Can-Do 60 sized, it is the perfect power match for this ugly but great flying airplane. I have my Bipe sitting down on the charge bench with hopes of flying her againtoday. I removed some throw from the ailerons and elevator and increased the expo (I love expo) I will take a while to zero in on the perfect setup but I will keep tweaking it.

gunneredwards

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Well I ended up running out of glue... did'nt see that coming. Got plenty now and finished the fuse and upper wing last night. should have the bottom wing done today and the tailfeathers done tonight if nothing comes up. Looks like your hog is operational, but I will have to side with you to take it easy for the first couple flights with low wind to get it all tuned up-can't be too safe.

Daddyo57

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GunnarEdwards good to see you!!! But I have to ask, where are the pictures? LOL!!! sorry had to say it... I enjoyed building my Hog Bipe, nice airplane but i wish it was mor elike the Astro Hog with an all Balsa Fuselage, my only gripe about the Hog Bipe... makes for a straight fuselage though... I would have like to put a bit more radius on the corners of the fuselage. One thing I recomend doing, build a fill in for the area where the lower wing and fuselage come together, per plan they leave this area open and it is fairly simple to make a fillet. Are you going with single or dual aileron servos? It is funny you mentioned Glue, I used what I thought was a huge amount of CA glue on the Bipe, but anytime we build a ply fuselage, it takes a bunch of glue there anyway. I bet I used 2 and a half 2 oz bottles of medium and a bit of epoxy and of course thin for the hinges.

I saw where you were having problems with loading pics... still when you get a chance I love seeing pics... I would have posted build pics here but i joined a bit late in my build, I wish I would have joined sooner... great thread!

Daddyo57

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Hey guys, I flew the Hog Bipe again today... when I throttled up for take off it slightly touched the prop... I have never had this happen before but it was slight and there was no obvious vibration so I went ahead and flew her around, I was amazed to find that it is capable of knife edge flight! it has a bunch of roll coupling that I wasnt expecting but I found if I eased the rudder in I was able to counteract with elevator and ailerons easier. I am seriously considering moving my landing gear forward at least an inch, when I landed a near the end of the roll out it nosed over and destroyed my expensive APC prop. I might be able to counter this with elevator but I am landing on very smooth concrete so any other surface would only be worse. The Bipe is fun to fly and looks good in the air, I cant say enough good stuff about the OS 95AX, it is a good engine. Overall, the airplane flies a little heavier feeling than thought it would but not terrible. I had tamed down the ailerons and actually will need to hot them up a bit more next flight. I would have flown it more than once but I didnt have my extra prop with me, my LHS shop doesnt carry 15 inch props so it is an order only item which sucks but I will order 2 or 3 of them next time. I think it would be a very easy mod to move the gear forward, I would just need to make another doubler and drill it for the gear and Monokote where the gear was, it just nosed over way easier than it should have, my wheels roll ok but could be a little better... might look into that before I move the gear.

Steveibrc

Cliff, Ditto on the wind thing. I don't mind flying when it is windy, but not when it's choppy. .Comes to a point I just can’t react fast enough Right type airplane makes a big difference.. I have an OS 46 powered H9 Mustang that is a ball of fun in the wind.

On the motors, Yes it's a 100, hard to keep up with who has what. So that’s the cub with the 80 on it. Beautiful airplane, and with that 80 the performanceis probably a lot like it was said of the full scale Cub. 'Flies so slow it canjust barely kill you'. I know what you mean about weak when one lunging. Blue confession, I leaned a jug too much on the third hop and one flamed after takeoff. when i backed down on the power. I was really concerned about making it back to the runway. Could barely maintain altitudeand it was pretty iffy for about 15 or so seconds or so .ragging along on the backside of the power curve close to stall speed. Got my heart going for sure. . I have to get up to speed on tuning these two bangers. My getting through the first flights by running “safely rich’ and depending on glow to keep it running and keeping my foot out of it is obviously a bad get by. I wouldn’t have done that motor that way for anything. I haven’t started rootin’ in the threads for a tuning solution. Picked up some where there are simpler, better ways to do it than theSaito manual. Any links or insights appreciated.

The produce scales at Bruno's told the tale on whistles and bells. 9 ½ pounds. She is a fat girl for sure. Lol, with that much weight, the only way it could compete performance wise is outrunning you in a dive.

I played with some weight numbers and the 'What If ' difference i came up with if i would have put in a Saito 125(which i really considered doing) instead of the 100t was 8 ounces. Would have built out with the 2 color Worldtex and the way i equipped the airframe at 9 pounds with a 'normal' engine.. I limbered up the incidence meter tonight and took another look at the numbers there also.And was in for a nice surprise. I wasn't handling the instrumentation right when i looked at the stab incidence before. I was trying to use the instrument on the stab with the wing brackets. When i laid the metal edge ontop of the stab, the incidence was within .1 degree of the thrust line Skill problem on my part. Best i can tell, wing incidences are .1 up on the bottomand .2 to .3 down (thank goodness) for the top.

If i want to move the cg back some more when the time comes, I can move one of the glow sys batteries into the spot vacated by the flight pack. 2.3 ozs. back 4 1/2 inches. Guesstimate that will bump it to probably to 26 or 7 or so judging by the effect of the flight battery move.

Enough for now! There are some other good points in your post that i will get to later. I started this last night and it’ been a long day, I am helping a friend on the haul out of an ancient sailboat. Sanding....All you want and can stand. Reallywant to do round 2 with the new bird, but it is not in the cards for the next few days. Later guys.

gunneredwards

My Feedback: (4)

I'll post some today... I have been busy with house things. The fuse and upper wing are done, working on the lower now & yes I will install a fillet on the bottom wing & dual servos. You know I'm used to flying my dazzler and I have lost aleron servos before... so If at all possible I will always go with 2 instead of 1 when possible. So far, I have never had a accident with my dazzler more than having the wheels snap off in the snow and ice on landing. I hope that I will be that lucky with the hog. I have a set of skis that I will try out on it if it ever gets that cold here. (used skis in denver on my cub)

gunneredwards

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here are a few quickies... don't know why the computer posted them up side down... maybe it knows this will be a stunt plane.

Steveibrc

Gunner,`.You are moving fast! You said that you ere going to get it together pretty quick. Skis would be pretty cool........ A skid mounted Hog . Also, might have mentioned, the cabane bolt reversal mod. Nice to do if you have the option to transport an assembled hog.

Daddyo, I agree on your description of the control feel. Solid. More Mercedes than Mazarati. Do what you have to do on the gear. I imagine you thinking was like mine during the build. The designer knows best, Set up right and flown properly no problem. But i think they missed a bit on the gear location. Flew mine today, (more on that later), off a fabric covered runway (a first for me) at the new club in the area. Did ok on the runway, but i didn't attempt to taxi in the rough, which was really rough. I plan to try the blocking trick before i redrill the plate. This was the first flight since i had move the flight battery as mentioned previously. I had also dialed in a bit of additional up elevator. An objective of the flight was to do the test that Rickstutz outlined to see what was going on on thrust angle.

Then the first error. Took off with all expos disabled. Didn't catch it while flying racetrack patterns conducting the thrust angle test. Had a nagging feeling that something was amiss, but passed it off as diffferent handling resulting from cg move. There was some wind, but the thrust angle looked to be pretty good and acted as Rick said it should (thanks for that info, Rick. Set up the approach to land, and was about half way down final when things turned ugly. It is a smallish runway at that club, i felt i was a bit tall on short final and chopped the power. With that big ol flat APC 15x4 in combination with a low idle, it is like stomping on the brakes. Add in the fact that two wings means a lot more paracitic and induced drag over a single wing airplane. Add in that my experience with 9 1/2 lb biplane that don't like to fly slow worth a flip is about 20 minutes at this point. Then the final kicker, no exponential on elevator to smooth out my spastic control reactions in this awfull slowmotion flight regieme my shocked butt had suddenly found itself in. I was almost instantly at stall speed. Supprised and nearly paralyzed. I added way too much power, not enough rudder, and too much up elevator. I barely caught it before it entered a full blown snap to the left. When i got it back simi under control with rudder and alieron and reduced power. I had turned about 90 deg left of runway heading and was about 15 feet off the ground with not enough power or airspeed. The stupid thought crossed my mind to chop the power and let it settle and take the lick of a hard landing/simicontroled crash. I hesitated and the decision was almost made for me. instead i added a bunch of power, much as i dared, and started a slow mushing semi stall turn futher to the left and settled a few more feet before i got nose down and started gaining airspeed. By this time i had turned a total of about 160 degrees from runway heading and the airplane was flying almost directly away from me. I wobbled on up to altitude and flew circles while i got my heart out of my throat enough to land. Flopped in a chair for about 5 min till my knees quit shaking. Packed up while i was ahead.

I have never come that close to destroying an airplane and came away unscathed. As i type this, i have walked out to the shop a time or two and and am just amaized i still have an airplane. I guess that 9 1/2 pounds of 'Dust of the Earth' that has rose up to learn to fly just didn't want to return there just yet. One thing for sure. Betty Bumble traded away a very large coin from her 'Bag of Luck' today to add somthing to my bag of experience. That airplane's expiration date was today, and she found a way out through a technicality in the fine print. As Seamus would say, 'Experience is what you get.........' , and i almost got what i wanted least of all.

RICKSTUBBZ

Steve

I am glad to read you kept fighting and hung on to your plane without damage . It's amazing how fast all that happens...Yes? All to often this is where guys jam up and/or freeze only to watch their plane crash. I still remember the first time I made a great save after an infamous error. Afterwards I was hyped that I saved my plane [8D]. You did not write about the subsequent landing. It must have been uneventful. By the way, the plane must be set up pretty close to where you want it. Based on your description, if the balance was off much or anything else for that matter you'd a lost it.

Steveibrc

Thanks, Rick just don't give up. A lot of things in life are that way.

Steveibrc

And the landing wasn't one of my best Actually it show another area that needs some attention. Wheel skirts too tight. I landed a bit cattiewompus on that fabric runway, and nearly nosed over when the tires started scrubbing the pants. Could hear it from where i was standing.

Steveibrc

shepard62

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Trying to decide on the pilot. What does everyone think? Post your reply here.

I wish I could pick your brain Steve to help with the covering.