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Please Help me

Old 08-30-2003, 06:02 PM
  #1  
ketil
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Default Please Help me

Please Help Me (post # 1)

I am building a Ziroli D-18 Beech,and in February i ordered a set of Byron retracts from Ed Clayman (Buy Aero.com).
I paid 531,- usd fore it.(i used Pay Pal)
In March i sent a mail to Ed and ask when the retracts would come to Norway,he re turd the mail and said he wold have them from Byron in a few days,and then send them.
That is the last i heard from him.
Have sent two mail to him this summer without any answers back.
So, can someone please help me locate Mr Ed,I know his location is in Texas some where.

I didn`t know where to put this tread so i try here.
Hope this only is a misunderstanding.

Ketil
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Old 08-30-2003, 07:19 PM
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William Robison
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Ketil:

The "Mod Squad" has been alerted.

Bill.
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Old 09-01-2003, 02:51 AM
  #3  
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Default Not Byron Gear...waiting on.

Hello Ketil:

Your gear have yet to be received. Somehow you are under the impression the gear was from Byron. Which is not the case at all.

Have replied to you twice prior to the onslaught of email viruses. Awaiting receipt of retracts to ship to you.
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Old 09-01-2003, 03:02 AM
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William Robison
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Ed:

Thanks for the response. It would be nice, though to have more explanation on the six month delay.

Bill.
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Old 09-01-2003, 10:24 AM
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Default Please Help me

It would be nice, though to have more explanation on the six month delay.
I have to agree here Ed.
The guy's been waiting for six months, he's all the way across the pond, and hasn't had much info.
What's the deal?
Dennis-
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Old 09-01-2003, 12:10 PM
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Default Not unavailable until made...

As was stated, you can't ship until it is made. The word Byron was introduced into this for some reason...Byron they are not.
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Old 09-01-2003, 02:02 PM
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Default Retracts

Hello Ed..

SORRY my foult The gear is Robart.
Good to hear from you Ed.
Now i know why it took time.
A`m happy everything is in order.
puh......

please mail me when you send them from US.

Thanks all fore the help you gave me.

Ketil
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Old 09-05-2003, 01:13 PM
  #8  
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Default piling on

Mr Clayman i would like some assistance as well

I ordered a cockpit kit for a piper cub via your website 2 months ago & am still waiting. You received payment promptly via paypal. i emailed you 2 weeks ago & said you would look into it. I await your response to this & to the email i sent 3 days ago.

Regards

John Root
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Old 09-05-2003, 01:52 PM
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Default J3 Cockpit

Hello John:

I received confirmation the J3 cockpit was shipping today. You should have it by mid-week.
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Old 09-05-2003, 02:35 PM
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outstanding

thank you
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Old 09-05-2003, 04:00 PM
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Steve Guinn
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Sounds to me like Ed needs a customer service rep.
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Old 09-05-2003, 04:21 PM
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Default Customer Service Rep.. :^)

Brilliant idea! Aside from the change in employment coupled with product availability here of late...its been interesting.

You are right... My daughter reminded me of that when she left for grad school. She often did follow-ups for me with suppliers. In the last month before her granduation everyone in the family was in anything but the same direction.

Now that things are getting settled down in the real world and hobby supply world I need to change my order acknowledgement process to include a follow-up email.
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Old 09-05-2003, 08:13 PM
  #13  
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It is worrying that this kind of delays seem to be a common thing.
Maybe escrow payments should be more common, - that is supplier receives payment upon confirmation of delivery.

There seem to be few excuses for 6 months lead time on shipments.

This is why I like to deal with my LHS directly.
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Old 09-05-2003, 08:40 PM
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apalsson:

There are escrow services available.

Running an escrow service approaches legal robbery. Think about it.

Let's take Ketil's case, just for example. And to make the numbers easier, let's just say it was $500 even.

Up front I'll charge Ketil 3% for the service. That's $15 in my pocket immediately. Ketil has paid me $515 for my service. Now I can invest the $500 for the six months, let's say I get 3% APR. Doesn't sound like much, but it's daily compounding. That's $7.45 for six months, I now have (after six months) $522.45 in hand.

And Ed says "I can ship now" and I send him $485. Right. I charge him 3% also.

So my profit, for sitting back and doing nothing but pressing a few keys, is $37.45.

Not too much by itself, but Ketil's pocket was lighter for the period, Ed didn't have the money in his pocket either. I was the winner. Just took a few seconds.

When I get my escrow service running well, and I'm staying busy, I'll have a gross income of a few million a year. And do it free and clear by using other people's money. The IRS will also be a big winner. As if they weren't already.

Bill.
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Old 09-05-2003, 10:24 PM
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What about charging the customer upon shippment? I'm sure the distributor doesn't charge until the merchandise is invoiced and shipped.
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Old 09-05-2003, 10:40 PM
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Rd:

That varies from one to another. Generally when using a credit card the billing is done at time of shipment. But there are some who charge at the time of the order.

In the case of Ketil and Aeroscale, Ketil used PayPal, that made an immediate funds transfer to Aeroscale. So in this case it doesn't matter what Aeroscale normally does, they had the money up front.

Bill.
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Old 09-06-2003, 08:29 AM
  #17  
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Bill,

You have a good point here, however in Ketil's case, Ed sat on his money for six months.
If Ed had decided not to ship the goods at all, Ketil would have lost his money. This would not have been the case if he had used an escrow.
We also have the widely discussed case of Fuso Aircraft, but they charged some $2000 and didn't ship at all.

I'm not expert in US trade law, but I have seen in order posts that charging for goods nore than 30 days prior to shipment is illegal.
Even if it wasn't illegal, it's completely unethical.

Again, this is why I personally don't order expensive items mailorder but get my local Hobby Store to source them for me.

Regards

Ari

Originally posted by William Robison
apalsson:

There are escrow services available.

Running an escrow service approaches legal robbery. Think about it.

Let's take Ketil's case, just for example. And to make the numbers easier, let's just say it was $500 even.

Up front I'll charge Ketil 3% for the service. That's $15 in my pocket immediately. Ketil has paid me $515 for my service. Now I can invest the $500 for the six months, let's say I get 3% APR. Doesn't sound like much, but it's daily compounding. That's $7.45 for six months, I now have (after six months) $522.45 in hand.

And Ed says "I can ship now" and I send him $485. Right. I charge him 3% also.

So my profit, for sitting back and doing nothing but pressing a few keys, is $37.45.

Not too much by itself, but Ketil's pocket was lighter for the period, Ed didn't have the money in his pocket either. I was the winner. Just took a few seconds.

When I get my escrow service running well, and I'm staying busy, I'll have a gross income of a few million a year. And do it free and clear by using other people's money. The IRS will also be a big winner. As if they weren't already.

Bill.
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Old 09-06-2003, 01:48 PM
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William Robison
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Son of a Pal:

The point I was trying to make is that an escrow service really performs no service - it holds your money, and charges you for holding your money. Well, it does a service to itself.

If Iwere Ketil I'd rather have Ed holding my money than pay even more to some outside service.

I'd like it best if I didn't pay the money until time of shipment, of course.

An extreme example of an escrow service was Enron.

Nobody at Enron ever touched one watt of energy, but they charged the producer for selling the power by buying at a discounted rate, and then charged the buyer for the power at an inflated price. Enron produced nothing but paperwork, for which everybody paid.

Bill.
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Old 09-06-2003, 03:33 PM
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Default BuyAero.com Transactions

The premise of BuyAero.com:

BuyAero.com provides a one stop shopping experience focused on scale modeling items rarely found in a LHS (local hobby shop) today.

BuyAero.com provides a single shopping location where most items required to build and finish a designer's plan sold in BuyAero are available to finish the design. This can include a custom cut kit, landing gear struts, retracts, covering material, fiber glass, and clear/opaque plastic components for finishing the design.

As a rule, BuyAero is the marketer of items for the manufacturer which in most cases is a cottage industry. While BuyAero.com has inhouse inventory of some items, for the most part items are drop shipped from the manufacturer.

BuyAero's experienced with multiple suppliers and manufacturers of "like items" provides a level of quality assurance customers would otherwise not benefit from.

For example:

In most cases, manufacturers do not permit return of goods once they are received. Plans, retracts, custom cut kits, fiber glass components, plastic cockpits and exterior parts, wheels, tires, brakes, radio systems, covering materials, scale struts and the like are yours once received .

Over time, BuyAero has discovered specific items for a design may, or may not be the most economical and best quality item for the customer . BuyAero advises the customer of something that might not be the best choice...for what-ever reason...be it quality or defect in design. Quite often a substitution is suggested for a designers listed item because an alternative works better, or best by comparison. Customers are made aware of alternatives when it is appropriate, however the customer still has a choice.

Most designs have been out there for 10 to 15 years... In that time newer products, better products and processes displace the original suggested by the designer.

I am not aware of any hobby product which can be paid for after it is delivered...outside of using an escrow process which does nothing but increase cost to the customer. Many components are simply not shelf stock items...they are manufactured to order. I wish it were otherwise, however it isn't the norm.

It is extremely rare to find a kit cutter who cuts to stock. The two who state they do are typically out of those kits when ordered because demand exceeds their ability to produce to stock.

BuyAero.com endevors to serve customers with quality products available at a reasonable price, in a timely fashion. While we aren't perfect, its our desire to conduct business in this fashion.
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Old 09-06-2003, 03:48 PM
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Ed:

I see nothing in your post that indicates your time of billing.

PayPal, of course, gives you no option.

When you put your "Buy-Aero" hat on, the service you're providing is a brokerage. I didn't know anyone was offering this service for models. Sounds like it would be a lot easier than a person scouring up all the bits for himself.

What can you do for me on a Bridi F-7F?

Bill.
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Old 09-06-2003, 05:03 PM
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Default RCU rules

While I appreciate your inquiry, RCU has rules. I respect and honor RCU's rules 100% as they are proper conduct for this great forum when it comes to commercial activities.

I can say, when products are ordered, the potential customer receives an order acknowledgement containing a summary of the order submitted using BuyAero's automated order entry system.

Orders are offically accepted when a customer makes payment using either a credit card with PayPal, Western Union Money Transfer, USPS, or Canadian Postal Money Order. Order shipment is contingent to availability of the item after payment is received.

All availability inquiries are replied to after we check with the manufacturer, however accuracy of reply is contingent to product availability after receipt of payment. Its the best we can do short of huge inhouse inventories which is why we exist in the first place...

As for your Bridi F7F inquiry...BuyAero does not sell Bridi kits. I was not aware the F7F fiber glass kit was still around. Its been a while since I last saw one.
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Old 09-06-2003, 05:52 PM
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Ed:

You have answered one question. You get the money, and only then do you order the parts for your customer. So regardless of how long it takes to fill the order, you have the customer's money.

Regarding the rules of posting on RCU, I possibly know them better than you, as I am one of the people who enforce them.

And it's OK for you to answer questions about your business and products or services in open forum.

Being honest, I debated removing your post #19 as commercial, but I decided you were really answering my (and others') earlier questions.

And to return to my last question, what can you do for me on the Bridi F-7F? Perfectly all right to respond in open forum, or if you're really uncomfortable diong that, you can use email, or give the information in a PM.

Thanks.

Bill.
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Old 09-06-2003, 07:47 PM
  #23  
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Originally posted by William Robison

When you put your "Buy-Aero" hat on, the service you're providing is a brokerage.
Bill.
Son of Robin

What is the difference here between the Buy-Aero business and your Enron case. Their business is brokerage too.

What I am arguing is that a broker like Buy-Aero should not be charged by their suppliers before their supplier ships, so why should Buy-Aero then charge at the time of order.

Also - if Buy-Aero has some reasonable turnover, they should have credit terms with most of their suppliers anyway.

Anyhow, please - noone take this as a swipe at Buy-Aero in particular. I have no doubt that Ed runs an excellent business and provides good services to the hobby.

I just have a problem with this concept that seems to be so common.

We hear about this problem all the time. Then companies cease trading and the customer is left out on a lim.

Best regards

Ari
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Old 09-06-2003, 09:36 PM
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Ari:

Not a great difference, granted, but enough to make Enron little more than a leech sucking at the blood stream and Ed providing a genuine service.

Power consumers had only to get on the phone to contract with power producers to contract for electricity, and they then found Enron had gotten there first. They had no chioce but to give in to Enron's extortion to get the power they needed.

If a builder doesn't want to make the effort of obtaining all the little bits needed for his project, Buy-Aero will amass all the accessories and attachments for him. It is the builder's choice to use Ed's services or not. An option the power consumers did not have, they were stuck with, and screwed by, Enron.

And if Ed wants the money up front, so long as he is open about possible delivery delays, that again, is the builder's choice. Note, please, choice.

Bill.
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Old 09-13-2003, 02:39 AM
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Default RE: Please Help me

And at what point, if any, does Ed return the money to Ketil along with an apology and say "sorry---this is ridiculous. If they ever turn up, I'll ship them to you and then you can pay me." A little trust in the other direction perhaps?
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