Free Bird

OK Guys, need some opinions. I'm ready to start a build thread for a Eureka Banshee. I'll be using an OS AX55 with a Jett Enginerring tuned muffler for motivation. The question I have is, should I install retracts? The build of the model isn't setup for retracts and while installing them in the wing panels will be easy, the nose gear is another story. Room is limited and it looks as if the nose gear when retracted will interfer with the wing. Also setting up the steering looks to be problematic as the servos are installed near the top of the fuselage over the wing making for a tricky steering linkage. I fly from a some what rough grass field and I'm building the model for SPA/sport flying. So are retracts really necessary other than the cool factor? Converting to a tail dragger is out of the question as I want to remain true to the original design. What do you guys think?

FB

Deadstik

My Feedback: (8)

FB,

Take your time, study the plans, and put in the retracts !! Honestly, I think putting in a set of Kraft electrics or Rhom Airs would be the way to go.... To leave the gear down on that plane would be a shame.....

Dan
Carolina Custom Aircraft

rv7driver

My Feedback: (105)

FB, if your planning on flying SPA I don't think retract's are allowed, but BPA go for it!! they are allowed!! can't wait to see your build thread on this one!

Pete

rv7driver

My Feedback: (105)

FB, what JETT muffler are you using on your OS AX55, I here they really put out the power with one!, just got a AX 55 from Santa, I would like to pick one up, thanks ahead of time. Pete

Free Bird

rv7: I dropped an email to Jett asking that very question. I'll post when I get an answer. I also know that retracts aren't allowed in SPA (just keep'em down if you complete), so that's one of the reasons why I asked the question. If not allowed in competition, why go through all the effort and expense?

Dan: If I go the retract route, I was thinking of getting Spring Airs, which would be better, firewall mount or belly mount? Your thoughts?

FB

WEDJ

Ummm, Looking forward to the build thread. my thoughts, Use the firewall mount, install retracts, and you can fly both the SPA and BPA with it. The Jett muffler is like the Magic muffler I used to use, just as good as a tuned pipe, less hassle, wider range.

Let's see those photos come...............

rv7driver

My Feedback: (105)

FB, thanks, will be waiting for your reply, I've got the orginal J&J kit of the Banshee 60 & 40 size. maybe after the QF I'll have to pull one out and build. thanks again Pete

Free Bird

rv7: No answer from Jett yet. J&J made a .40-size Banshee? I thought there was only one size, the .60-size.

FB

WEDJ

Ditto. I never heard of a .40 Banshee. Photos, please?

WEDJ

BTW, Ethan's Sr. Falcon has the OS .55 with an expansion muffler. You've seen how it pulls verticals with a 12x7, and it isn't even broken in yet. Should be a great engine with an 11x8 or 11x7 3/4

rv7driver

My Feedback: (105)

Yep, they made a 40 size also, not many out there, bought this one about 10 years ago thinking I was getting the 60 size, @ a swap meet, really did not realize it until I got it home. Picked up the 60 size a few years ago.

Pete

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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My first Deception with Rom-Air gear utilized the firewall mount nose gear. What a PITA to install, maintain and fit everything in the nose that needed to be there.

My later models utilized the Rom-Air belly mount. That was so much easier to deal with that it was almost sinful (Tiporare & Phoenix 8).

Don't be afraid to notch out the front of the wing to clear the nose gear. Just be sure to plan ahead and add a nice plywood spar between the two wing halves. I learned about the spars indirectly from Dave Brown when he was flying actively in competition. He flew his models so much that after a while, the butt glued center section/wrapped with fiberglass cloth and epoxy joints failed over time. Apparently, the extra weight of the plywood and epoxy lent enough longevity to make it worth its weight to Dave. If you're reading, Dave, jump in here and comment, or correct me if I have something wrong.

I just spoke with Dub Jett on the phone while ordering two of his high performance mufflers for my pair of OS .55AX engines. The mufflers that have flanges that fit the TT .46 fit all OS engines in that size range and work perfectly. He did add some valuable information regarding prop selection when using his mufflers. Start with an 11x6 (or less load) when using his mufflers. You should be able to richen the mixture by approximately 3000 rpm off peak with whatever size prop you run. This means that as you richen the mixture off of peak, you should be able to richen the engine to the point of about 3k rpm before the engine "falls off the pipe" (these are my words). If not, you could be in dangerous territory, especially with only a 1k rpm richening until it "falls off the pipe". All of this means that when using his Jett muffler, the recommended 12" props of any pitch are simply out of the question. I'm not including 12x4 props for 3D because this muffler is not desirable for 3D usage, which is attributable to its "pipiness" (again, my words, not Dub's). Hopefully, if I've made an error, either Bob Brassell or Dub Jett will jump in and set us straight.

I too am building a Banshee, but I have no reservations about doing away with the nose gear retract. Once in the air with the gear up, no one will know the difference at all. I'm also going with seperate aileron servos in each wing panel. What the hey??? <G>


Ed Cregger

rv7driver

My Feedback: (105)

As far as the 40 size banshee kit it has been sold but I emailed him hope to get pic's soon I post them. Pete

Deadstik

My Feedback: (8)

Bird,

As someone said earlier, it is easier to maintain a belly mounted nosegear than a firewall mounted nosegear. The firewall mount will be inherently stronger but the belly mount will make it easier to setup and maintain the retracts. Do not worry if you have to make a cavity in the front of the wing between the mounting dowels for the nose wheel. I remember the first Super Kaos I built and I did not account for the nose wheel correctly. What a mess... I had to install these 1" main wheels just to drop down the height of the main gear so the plane could take off. If I had made a cavity (which I later did) non of that would have been a problem. I'll see if I can't find a picture of the nose gear cavity. Done properly you will not endanger the wing mounting dowels. I usually do not use front wing dowels anymore as it is much easier to install vertical doweling and blind nuts than to use the front dowels.


BTW.. use a 60..... and a pipe.... BALLISTIC PLANES CALL FOR BALLISTIC ENGINES !!!!


have fun,

Dan
Carolina Custom Aircraft

Free Bird

Dan & Ed: What's the big difference between firewall and belly mount for the nose gear? Wouldn't the firewall mount give you a little more room?

Ed: I'm a little unclear on your thoughts here. I can understand backing off the needle as the engine tends to unload in flight, but 3000rpm? That seems to be a little excessive, yes?

OK, as far as the build goes, I'll start posting pics this weekend. There's a bunch of work that can be done while I decide if I want to go the retract route. There's a bunch of parts that need to be made that aren't supplied with the Erueka short kit. Also there's no BOM list which would be quite helpful. I'll make up a list as I go for those that build this kit in the future.

FB

rv7driver

My Feedback: (105)

Well. with both feet in my mouth and my finger up my ---! I was wrong about the Banshee 40, it was a 60 I even went in my kit room and dug out the other one a 60. Leo emailed me and said it was a 60. I bought several J&J kits that day could of sworn it was a 40.

I would like everybody to know this is the first time in my life I've been wrong!!!!! yea right!!!!!! will not be the last


Pete

Clavy

Hi Free Bird,

Glad to see you are going to do a build thread on the Banshee. The Banshee is next after I finish my Mach 1.

I'll be building mine from plans and the build article I purchased from Flying Models. The nose is quite short between the firewall and wing and does pose problems. Attached is picture I thought might interest you of a Spring Air firewall mount nose unit and a Hayes 12oz Slimline tank laying on the plans. As you can see the wheel is not the problem. The problem lies in that the fuel tank protrudes into the wing and sits a little high in regards to a side mounted engine.

I would have no reservation whatsoever cutting into the wing to allow space for the tank. I've done it before with no problems at all. I am considering canting the engine up a little to get the carb more inline with the center of the tank.

Then again, doing a tail dragger would solve all kinds of issues. But I'm hard headed and a mine will be a tricycle. It's all in fun and the pain you know!

I look forward to your build.

Clay

WEDJ

I remember from a long time ago, Jim Martin used an 8-oz fuel tank, and barely had enought to run the pattern with. Of course, it could just be an urban legend......

proptop

My Feedback: (8)

FWIW, I built the 'glass fuselage version in the mid 70's...

How much does the .55AX w/ the Jett muffler weigh? I had a K&B .61 w/pump on mine (stock muffler ) and it balanced just about on the aft limit, so we added a little lead to the nose.

Don't want to sound critical, but I'm just thinking (especially after reading the Quick Fly thread ) that with some of these older airplanes with long tail moments, one might just as well use a .60-.61 rather than have to add lead to make up for the wt. "saved" by using a lighter engine.

If the tail feathers are kept as light as possable, it might be o.k. with the .55AX though? (just putting this out there for your consideration )

WEDJ

Here's some photos of my Banshees. First one was scratch-built automotive lacquer finish, fall of 1972. Second one was J&J kit, monokoted summer 1973. My second contest win was with this, Bridgeport meet that year, 2nd class "A"

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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Believe me, Dub wasn't as confusing on the phone as what I have written. What I said was accurate. My comments are prefaced upon the understanding that the reader has some tuned pipe experience in the past.

In the interim, here is something to chew on. Dub was concerned that modelers would use the ridiculously large props that are suggested in the engine's instructions when also using one of his mufflers because that combo would not work well together. His tuned muffler is geared to work with average .40-.46 prop sizes, i.e., 10x6 to 11x6. The OS instructions list 12x7-8" props. The latter size props will drop the engine rpms down to a point that will be out of resonance for the Jett high performance muffler.

Rather than worry about the 3,000 rpm richened mixture before dropping off the pipe (out of resonance), it is better to just not load the engines up with anything larger than an 11x6. I'm sure all of this will be properly explained in the instructions included with the mufflers.

The belly mount nose gear does not eat into the tank compartment's front to back dimension, thus permitting a full size fuel tank with padding.


Ed Cregger

RFJ

WEDJ,

The wing seems very close to the bottom of the fuselage on that second Banshee. I always thought the model had thrust line/wing/tail more or less in line like the Eyeball from which it was developed.

Ray

WEDJ

It's an optical illusion. The wing sat in the middle of the orange body stripe. I'll try to find an alternate photo this w/e.

RFJ

Seem to suffer from more of these the older I get. Looking more carefully at the photograph I see what you mean about the wing/fuselage intersection - she's a proper Banshee.

Ray

Free Bird

Clay: Thanks for the photo! It paints a good picture being I don't have the retracts in hand yet. Maybe a belly mount would be the way to go. I'm like you - hard headed!

Is your Mach 1 from the Midwest kit or scratch built? I've got a NIB kit waiting to be built.

Nic: Nice pics and nice job on those Banshee's! What did you use for power and did you have retracts?

Ed: Thanks for clearing up the tuned muffler issue. After thinking about it some more, keeping the engine unloaded sounds logical. It's been many years since I've messed around with tuned pipes.

After looking at the attached firewall mount nose gear pic, the front to rear doesn't seem to be that much of an issue, it looks more like a space issue from top to bottom, unless the gear tucks in nice and tight to the belly. Guess I'd need a belly unit to place on the plans to see if it would work.

FB