can773

My Feedback: (1)

Ok, since the forum is kinda slow today and this is a topic on the NSRCA list at the moment, lets start a poll.

Fairly simple, should we be flying F in the FAI class?

Please make a response with your reasoning when you answer, if someone feels more answers should be added post and I will add them.

Personally I think that yes we should. FAI is the pinnacle of pattern competition, most who fly in that class do so because they want to achieve a very high level of proficiency in their flying. You do that with challenging sequences, that challenge the pilots to their limit. Those that do not want to commit that amount of time and effort have other classes such as Masters which is a very tough and competitive class, and gives nothing up to the FAI P schedule (IMO of course).

There are obviously other considerations such as how to weigh the 4 rounds of P and 2 rounds of F that would be flown, judging proficiency of F etc. etc., all of which I think are easily workable if you really put in the effort to make it happen.

So have at it, lets hear those opinions I would really like to hear from those overseas who fly F at their local events and how they are doing it.

vbortone

My Feedback: (2)

I am confused with your question. If the event is less than 2 days only P-XX shedule should be flown. This is a FAI rule. Please clarify your question.

Thanks,

Vicente "Vince" Bortone

Andy P.

With Masters being more difficult than PO7 here for the past 2 years why should FAI have to practice and fly 2 known , plus when the ocassion arises, unknown shedules to prove their worth?

Surely being able to prove pure dominance of one schedule should be enough?? unless you've simply got nothing else better to do with your life than play one upmanship, I mean, how many FAI pilots get a ten consistently for every manouvre they fly, simple answer............none!

Weather, pilot, equipment problems all make a difference and this years worlds prove this, just look at the stats to see what I mean.

Learn one schedule in all conditions and get a ten for EVERY manouvre EVERY time and you've got a true contest!

IMHO (dont you just hate quotes in bracket's )

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Vincente

Actually there is no such rule, the FAI rules are:

In other words, do whatever you feel suits your local area.

Even the US Nats do not follow FAI rules, which require 10 pilots move into the finals regardless of # of entries, and only 30% should be moving into the semi's, where the Nats takes 20 which is typically far more than 30%. FAI organization rules only really work for huge events like the Worlds.

Andy,

By your logic we should only fly P at the World Championships as no one has ever received a perfect score! Its pure semantics to argue that since you cannot achieve a perfect score you should not be flying something more difficult...if that were true we would all be flying sportsman!

I did not mention anything about unknowns, I think that is over the top for a small event.

vbortone

My Feedback: (2)

OK. I am sure that was there long ago. Thanks,

Vicente "Vince" Bortone

mwick

Let's fly "F" on Saturday and Unknowns on Sunday, then there is a distinction between Masters and FAI, as there should be.

vbortone

My Feedback: (2)

I agree 100%.

vbortone

My Feedback: (2)

Forgot to add, I think is difficult for local contests to organize the unknows. However, it is possible and the CD should anounce it with time. In other worlds that is a CD option. I really would like to see Masters flying the current P schedule and making F3A the final destination of AMA classes flying P and F schedules.

Vicente "Vince" Bortone

dentdoc

My Feedback: (3)

I agree.. This would raise the FUN factor by 10.. Didn't most of us get into pattern to improve our flying skills & have FUN anyway?

Chasing Brett around the F or a Unknown pattern at a District contest would get the ole heart pumping!!!

bwick

That would be a fun contest, we should try and set it up for one closer to the nats.

This guy's smart, anyone know who he is?

mwick

Every IMAC contest has unknowns for multiple classes, not just the top class. If they were able to figure it out, I'll bet we could figure it out for 1 class.

RC_Pattern_Flyer

My Feedback: (1)

The question in the end is the judging ability at the contest. I think flying F, P or unknowns would be a treat to watch and fly but if you cant gather a group of guys to judge and understand what is going on, then you can't score consistently.


Fortunately in District 6, we have an incredibly strong Masters class which would make things easier to judge the FAI guys should something along these lines be tried.

I flew FAI twice last year, had a BLAST and truely enjoyed flying f-07. Now as for f-09, definitely need some practice there... but... i had fun and was totally challenged. It was a nice change of pace.

Not to throw in another curve, but why not fly unknowns in all classes. Again, Mwick (smart guy.. who is he, where did he come from?) mentioned that IMAC handles this across the country every year.

Just my thoughts...

Chuck

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Unknowns.....thats for a poll next year after we all start flying F

rcpattern

My Feedback: (45)

I definitely think the F patterns should be flown at local contests. It helps the guys flying FAI prepare for the NATS if they make the top 20 and also helps the guys that will be judging it at the NATS see the pattern and learn it prior to seeing the first time in Muncie. It makes the pilots better as well as the judges better. As for unknowns...yea, you are right Mike, IMAC has been doing it. However I have YET to go to an IMAC contest and not see at least 2 people at each contest zero a maneuver that gets missed. I know, things get missed in pattern as well, but over the course of the year, this gets less and less as people learn the sequences. It is usually a roller or something..heck, I even got away with doing a roller the wrong way last year at Jetero...If you can get people to actually pay attention to what is going on, or better yet, have a zero judge, then go for it...

Arch

jim woodward

As someone who would happily fly F0X at a local event and has actually done so, I just voted no. I think there is a huge untended trickle-down effect. Flying F while fun for some of us, is the ultimate turn-off for anyone who is on the fence to fly FAI locally or not. FAI is a small group and getting smaller. P09 is on par or easier than the current Masters pattern and we have it for two years. Several guys in D3 has stated they are thinking of flying FAI (either again of for the first time), but don't want to fly F09. As a matter of overall heath in the District, I think the whole contest would be better served by having some of the Masters guys who are on the fence, go ahead and move to FAI and let some of the 3rd-8th or so typical placers in Masters have a shot at getting some wood! I know the Masters class holds the sacred position as the AMA destination class, but sometimes you got to look at mixing things up a bit.

We have an easier P sequence, some of the Masters guys can take advantage of it and get a breath of fresh air and try out FAI if they want. It would change the landscape a bit and give guys a new reason to hit the practice field with enthusiasm and possibly reinvigorate a bunch more people than the very vew flying F0X actually helps.
Thanks,
Jim W.

Anthony-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

I would like to say P on Sat and F on Sunday with an Expert class that is P only to make everyone happy! Since that is always easy to do.

tschmidt

My Feedback: (1)

I agree with Anthony!

Todd Schmidt

vbortone

My Feedback: (2)

I agree with Todd.

Vicente "Vince" Bortone

Ryan Smith

My Feedback: (25)

Flying the F0X sequence is something that was brought up to me as the new DVP for my NSRCA district by an FAI flyer. I just voted yes in the poll. I currently fly Masters, and will move to FAI soon. With the 07 sequences, I practiced both the P and F and when I get the time to start flying this year, I will do the same with the new sequences. We finally flew the F sequence at a contest in 2007, at our district championships and I think our CD came up with a very good idea to circumvent people being skittish about flying the F sequence. Instead of treating the F sequence as a different contest and forcing the best three P rounds and the best F round to total your four rounds kept, why not just take the best four rounds of any sequence, even if that means one pilot keeping two F sequences.

I see quite a few pilots out there that fly well enough to do well at the Nats in FAI in the prelims, only to bomb in the Semi's because they never practice the sequence. I know of quite a few people that flew the F sequence for the first time at the Nats. One pilot even argued to drop a spot and let the pilot under him fly F because he had never done it before.

So would taking the best four rounds of the contest with both P and F in consideration be something that is unfeasible? Is this something any of the NSRCA members would like me to talk about at our next board meeting?

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Ryan,

Thats sounds like a great idea to me, had not thought of that one before. Might be the solution to keep everyone happy.

With normalized scores I don't see why it would not work.

flyf3a

Hi

In South Africa we have proposed to fly two rounds P and two rounds F. No fly off. We have three team selection events in a two year period with two of the three rounds to count. To be invite to our Masters (one of the team events), pilots must have flown four league events in the year obtaining more than 60% in three of the four events.

Regards
Burt

Anthony-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

That is a good idea. Pilots choice and just compare normalized scores. A good stop gap to allow guys to practice flying and judging the F.

AmericanSpectre505

The introduction of flying both the P & F programs will help all the pilots out there working hard to get to the top of there game. It will help younger pilots to see and understand (perhaps) a more complicated set of segments, help even the best seasoned pilot to re-visit a past maneuvor with a new variation.

Right now for most of us ( I assume anyway),...we never get to fly the F program in front of a set of judges locally. We wait just before the NATS and cram for it like it's a pop quiz. If instead,.. the respective districts adopt the F program as a contest norm. The bar is raised as we are now judged throughout a period of time and have the opprutunity to perfect as we go through a period constructive critisium, known as judging.

I know I was fairly un-nerved when I went to the NATS last year for the first time, knowing my F program had never seen the eyes of a consistent judging group. It didn't matter anyway,..as mechanical issues grounded me for the entire week, but it was on my mind.

The F in some respects is for most, our unknown,.. because not enough time is spent polishing it. The P takes priority all year,..for the districts that do not fly the F program that is.

Thanks Ryan for the serious consideration in getting this introduced into district 2.

Bill Holsten