TTMT

FMA Direct has developed a new stabilization system for rc aircraft called the Co-Pilot II. I've been waiting for its release since the fall of 2008 when they announced it was in development, and I bought mine this morning.

The new Co-Pilot II stabilizer looks like an amazing system for stabilizing aircraft. I purchased the top-level model (there are three levels) for my 450-class electric heli.

The top model sells for $208.99 and includes a USB connection to a Windows computer for firmware updates as they are released. FMA says the stabilizer will put a heli in level flight when the user releases the cyclic stick. The mid-level and top-level models are capable of returning a heli to upright and level even from inverted flight. The base model doesn't include the vertical sensor for this capability.

The Co-Pilot II includes an infrared remote unit that is used to configure the stabilization system installed on the aircraft. Unlike the original Co-Pilot, the Co-Pilot II will stabilize helis that use CCPM for main rotor head mixing and control.

I'll report here on my experiences with the system as soon as I receive it, hopefully in late March or early April, 2009.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

It is great to hear that companies are updating their equipment. But I have to add that FMA had 2 Co-Pilot systems before. One was the CPD4 and the other the FS8. The CPD4 was installed between your receiver and servos, and you are right it could not handle CCPM helis. The FS8 was a complete system which included a receiver. Since it had a receiver, it could handle CCPM helis.

I have an FS8 at the house but is currently installed in a plank that I use to train newcomes to the hobby.

I might have to check out the new system for my wife's heli to see what is the difference between the old systems and the new one.

Thanks for the update.

Rafael

TTMT

Thanks for the info, Rafael. I didn't know the FS8 could handle CCMP helis. I wonder why they stopped selling it in the interim before the Co-Pilot II came out.

The infrared configuration unit for modifying the settings of the Co-Pilot II while it is mounted in your heli is really impressive to me. And the ability to recover a heli from inverted is amazing (combo sets 2 and 3 include a vertical sensor for this capability).

FMA says the CP II with vertical sensor can help you to learn 3D flight as well. Apparently, it is capable of hovering your heli inverted by itself.

I'm looking forward to it giving me peace of mind so I can advance my skills for basic flight of my 450. I have decent flying skills, but I have very nervous hands when I try to move beyond my comfort zone.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

As far as I understood, the CPD4 and the FS8 were both capable of recovering from inverted by "rolling" if you have installed the vertical sensor. You see, the unit can recover from inverted without the sensor, but most likely it will recover using elevator. For plank pilots that could mean disastrous results if the plane was too close to the ground. With the vertical sensor, the unti was more "aware" of it's surroundings and rolling from inverted was possible.

I read the website and the published PDF document, here is what I see different.

1. The system will use normal servo leads as communication paths. What that means to me, is that I can use servo extensions to locate the components anywhere on the aircraft, instead of having a fixed length wire to deal with.
2. the programming module. I don't quite understand how this works yet, but after programming my FS8 twice, I don't really want to program it again. It is a fairly long process with the radio and the aircraft.
3. THis system will be able to hook up to normal receivers (72mHz or 2.4) and be able to control a CCPM helicopter. Before you could not do CCPM with the CPD4, and needed the FS8, which of course is not compatible with 2.4 systems.
4. This system claims to be able to stabilize up to 4 channels, the old system was able to stabilize just 2 channels.

Rafael

TTMT

Rafael,

I forgot about the critical feature of the CP II - support for 2.4GHz systems. This actually was one of the issues I was facing until they introduced this model. I use an Airtronics RDS8000 2.4GHz system.

I didn't realize their previous systems could stabilize a model from inverted. I did read about the roll method used by the CP II. Makes a lot of sense to roll the model back - faster and less opportunity to hit the ground.

FMA has introduced a natural stick feel with the CP II. Apparently, the previous systems caused the aircraft to sort of resist pilot stick inputs. Did you experience this with your units?

I'm hoping the configuration will be much easier. Seems like the display and menu system will work nicely guiding users through the setup. I definitely like the ability to remotely configure the unit while it remains mounted in the heli.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

Keep in mind that I have not tried my FS8 on a heli. It has always been installed on an airplane.

You can definitely feel some resistance to your commands when the gain is turned all the way up. I have the gain (plus on-off) channel on a slider, all the way down is off, all the way up is 100% gain. When the gain was all the way up it was impossible to roll the airplane inverted. I had t roll it inverted with the gain off, then turn the gain up. The plane would roll or pull elevator to come back right-side-up depending on he orientation of the airplane when I turned the gain back on.

It seem that the "sticks" will have more authority on this system.

Rafael

TTMT

I hope they've done a good job on the sticks. I'll let you know what I think. Unfortunately, I've got a month and a half minimum before I can expect to get my cp II.

Sounds like you still use your stabilizers on your airplanes. Do you use them for insurance when you fly? Have you had your models saved by the stabilizers?

I've been surprised by how little attention stabilizers get in our hobby. It may be due to the cost. The other brands are very pricey for my budget.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

I use it on one airplane that I have set up for people that want to try the hobby. It is installed on a PT40 trainer type aircraft. I do not use that airplane on a frequent basis just when needed.

I am well past that phase of airplane flying. I'm working on a ducted fan 40% BD-5J, a 40% Nemesis Racer, and a Robinhood (100 inches of wingspan). I also have an Ultra Sport 60 that can do knife edge for the length of the field and snap roll so fast that you can't count the revolutions. But I have dedicated myself mostly to helis. The planes are an itch I like t scratch every now and then. Or when we have plane events at our field.

My sister and my mom had never tried RC before me moving away when I got married. A few years ago, they came over to visit and we got a chance to go out to the field. I told them to fly the airplane and let go the sticks when they got into trouble. My sister flew th plane perfectly following my directions. My mom on the other hand, would have flown the plane into the ground because sh never let go the sticks. I had to yank the TX out of her hands. With the TX on my hands, and not touching the sticks, she then realized that the system would take over. So yes, it has saved that particular airplane at least once. The normal use fr the system is to provide confidence to the person trying the airplane.

Rafael

TTMT

Wow, you're REALLY into the hobby. I don't have the skill or the budget to pursue it like that. I'll be very happy just being able to go to a local school fields to fly non-3D circuits with my 450-class heli.

I bought the CP II for just the reason you described - peace of mind while flying and an insurance policy when I freeze-up and lose my orientation.

Sure appreciate all your input.

What do you mean when you say 40% Nemesis Racer? Is that a fuel percentage of some kind? Do you have any plans to move on to turbine aircraft?

Ducted fans are really nice. I'm really interested in scale flight. I plan to get a scale MD-530 fuse for my TT Mini Titan after I can fly it safely enough.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

I've been at this hobby since 1998. So you make the math. Some of this stuff I've had since the begining, some of it I've found on really good deals.Turbines are a little out of my league right now. A friend of mine has a few of them and I'm learning as much as I can for the day that I can afford one.

When referring to scale aircraft, the percentage is the scale from the real airplane, so the BD-5J and the Nemesis are 40% of the real thing. Or simply put 50% is half the size, so they are a little smaller than half the size of the real thing. The BD-5J wll have a wingspan of approximately 90 inches. The Nemesis will have a wingspan of approximately 110 inches. The BD-5J will be powered by a 90 size ducted fan engine, and the Nemesis will have a gasoline burner, most likely a twin jug 80cc or bigger.

Rafael

TTMT

Oh, okay. I wasn't familiar with a percentage reference to the scale of the model. I've seen 1/4 and 1/5, but not percentages. Those will be very large planes - should make for smooth flying.

Helicopters work well for me. I recently bought an SRB Quark and it's proving to be a great trainer. Hopefully, the CP II will make my Mini Titan perform with the stability of my Quark so I can learn to handle it with more confidence. I've flown my Mini in nose-in (briefly) and side-on hover, but I get really nervous hands when I try to advance my skills into flying basic circuits.

Keep me posted on the progress of your new planes. I'd like to see photos if you can post some.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

Here are some pictures:
[link]http://runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/1469/[/link]

And some more here:
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/profile.cfm?section=gallery&memid=30968[/link]

Rafael

TTMT

Nice photos - and thank you for your service to our country.

I noticed a Kiowa in one of your Iraq photos. Outfitted with wire cutters and other military equipment, that's one of my favorite helis.

You have an impressive array of aircraft. On my G4 sim, one of my favorite models to fly is a Raptor 30. I like the Kyosho Caliber 30 too.

Your new plane looks like an experimental plane. Is it actually the one from the old James Bond movie? Will it be gas or electric?

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

No need to thank me, if called I would do it all over again without thinking. 4 Years active duty, and 5 reserve. Deployed to Bosnia in 1999 and to Iraq in 2003.

I used to like scale helis, but i'm having too much fun with the aerobaic ones. Maybe someday.

not all of those aircraft are mine. We were packing up to go to a mall show and I had the trailer you see on the background. If you look closely there is a Raptor 30 in there. I now have a Raptor 50 and a Raptor 90, and a few others. I currently own 6 helis total, 2 of which are supposed to belong to the wife, but I end up doing the set-up, break-in, maintenance and everything. She has not started flying yet. She is still breaking the ice with the airplane with the Copilot (FS8).

Do you mean the green looking one? The one on the foreground here?
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/gallery/galleryItem.cfm?itemID=169829&dummy=515.8025930627008&opener=/community/profile.cfm%3Fsection%3Dgallery%26memid%3D30968[/link]

It will be painted like this when I'm done with it:
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/gallery/galleryItem.cfm?itemID=169828&dummy=1785.1401106832932&opener=/community/profile.cfm%3Fsection%3Dgallery%26memid%3D30968[/link]

And yes, it is the one from the James Bond Movie Octo*****. Corkey Fornoff modified a BD-5J, that is why the painted airplane says Acrostar on it's side. The Acrostar is a heavily modified BD-5J. My plane will be powered by a 90 size ducted fan engine running on glow fuel. The engine is on the pictures posted on the previous post.

The gray airplane on the runryder gallery is the Nemesis. It is a 40% scale model of this one:
[link]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Nemesis[/link]
This one will be powered by an 80cc gas engine, or bigger.

Hopefully I can replicate the colors and text font when the time comes.

Rafael

TTMT

Those are both really nice planes. What made you choose them? The Bond plane is very unusual, but really cool. Will you build-in retracts? With a low wing and the way it appears, I'd expect it to be pretty snappy in maneuvering. The ducted fan will be great.

The Nemesis looks really impressive. It has beautiful lines. Will you use it for competition? Do you know how to perform technical flight?

What other helis do you have among the six? The TT models are really nice. I'd like to think that some day I'll be able to get a nitro heli.

For the forseeable future, I'd be very happy just to enjoy my TT Mini Titan with the stabilizer and work towards being able to fly competently without it. It's supposed to help with learning 3D, but I don't really have interests in that area. Scale flight appeals to me a lot more.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

I fell in love with the BD-5J when I saw the James Bond Movie. A friend of mine has the Guinness World Record for the Smallest Jet Powered Airplane and it is on a BD-5J (the real thing). So progression was just there. It has retracts already. I'm working on the retract doors to make it look good. I have been in contact with the pilot of the James Bond movie, the pilot of the Coors Light airplanes and several other BD-5 pilots to try to capture several scale details although the real BD-5 does not have many noticeable panels and details.

The Nemesis was a fluke, I was looking for a giant scale plane and found this one at a very good price. The drawback of the Nemesis? I don't have any instructions or additional parts. All i have is what is pictured, you are supposed to build the necessary parts (formers, bulkheads, firewall, ect.). It was intended that way. That is the main reason is not built yet. I don't feel competent enough yet to build it. I will not build it for competition. It might be built strong enough for competition, but I will certainly not race it myself.

I have a TRex 450, 2 x Venture 30, A Raptor 50, a Raptor 90, and a Bergen/Xcell Gasser.

What makes you believe that aerobatics /3D does not interest you? Once I tried my first loop, roll, and flip, I was hooked. From there, the interest in scale helis dwindled quite a bit. It has not gone away tho. If I can control my spending on the aerobatic helis, I might be able to buy a scale one. But now I'm building those airplanes, so who knows when I'll get to the scale helis.

Rafael

TTMT

Well, it depends. I am interested in aerobatics - loops and rolls, stall turns, long banking turns - but not "3D," at least what I think of as 3D. I prefer anything that a real helicopter can do. I generally don't enjoy watching rc helis doing 3D because most of it happens so fast that I can't really see the heli. I've only seen 3D on Internet videos. Seeing it first-hand would probably be much more fun.

Don't get me wrong. I have a great appreciation for the skills necessary to do it. I don't think I'll ever be that good.

I've just always enjoyed watching airplanes and helicopters fly. I want to reach a skill level where I can control my 450 well enough to closely mimic a full scale heli and get a lot of recreational value from it.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

There is nothing wrong with just enjoying a relaxed scale-like flight. As your skills progress you will try to do more stuff. That is the way I started. I do not claim to be a 3D pilot, but I'm getting very good at aerobatics. I'm one of just a few heli pilots in my club, most everybody flies airplanes and there is one guy that can fly airplanes very good. What we do, is that he flies an airplane aerobatic routine and then I try to go up and replicate it with my helicopter. It is very challenging. So I will continue doing so and practicing until I take the final step into 3D.

And yes, having a person there to see it, and help you in your progress is very helpful.

Rafael

TTMT

Sounds like a lot of fun. I'm pretty much a lone ranger when it comes to flying. I don't have a very close by flying field, so I just fly by myself at local park and recreation areas - as long as there's no one nearby. I've got a friend at a local hobby shop who is highly skilled (3D). He apparently has a some significant helis - like you - and flies at the flying field. I'm going to have to make my way out there pretty soon.

This is why I'm so axious to get my Co-Pilot II. I'm hoping it will serve as my backup so I can bail out of trouble without crashing and keep working to push my skills. If I can get good enough to fly reliably, I might consider joining the club out at the field and make the trips out. It's not like it's that far away, it's just not very convenient, and my time is limited. I'd want it to be worthwhile if I were to go out there and fly with others. Plus, there's an annual fee.

Anyway, between my SRB Quark and the Co-Pilot II (for my 450), I think I'll be able to make the breakthrough I've been striving for and become a confident pilot.

Do you practice 3D on a simulator? I use a G4 sim to develop my skills. I think it's good for muscle memory - so you sort of automatically react to circumstances without having to think about it.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

Having a flying buddy is really helpful. I feel that I become bolder as I have skilled friends around me. If I'm by myself at the field, I don't normally practice new stuff.

At the moment I don't have a computer that is good enough to use the simulator, but I did, and my friends routinely do too.

I have a story that I post every time that the subject arises:
[link]http://runryder.com/helicopter/t494816p1/?top=1235252499[/link]

Rafael

TTMT

That's how I feel. The sim gives you the training opportunity to develop automatic reaction skills. There's generally no time to think about how to handle a situation.

Well, I've got about 4-5 weeks to go before my CP II is on its way. Sounds like your FS8 is good equipment, considering you still use it. I'm looking forward to the same quality and durability in mine. For some reason, FMA doesn't seem to be advertising it much so far. The pricing they've set for it makes it much more affordable than the competition, and it offers features that I don't think any other system can match.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

The FMA systems have their pros and cons. I like the one that I have and will be looking forward to the new system when it comes out. I might get one for the wife's heli. They are definitely more affordable than other untis that i have seen.

Good luck with your system and good luck with your helis!

Rafael

TTMT

Thanks, Rafael.

Good luck to you too - matching the fixed-wings move for move !

Sbach342Guy

Any updates on the Co-Pilot II? I just recently finished building a Trex 600GF. It hovers with very little input but I'm considering the Co-Pilot II for forward flight practice. I'm really curious why the HeliCommand costs so much more than the Co-Pilot II. I have a hard time believing that the HeliCommand works that much better to justify $600 vs $200.

TTMT

No, mine is supposed to ship at the end of this month. Exactly why the cost is so different, I'm not sure. Looking on the FMA Direct web site, though, I see that they have formed a manufacturer consortium (four manufacturers from four countries) to produce quality electronics at competitive prices.

Based on online material I've read about the HeliCommand system, I think it may contain a CCD unit that observes the ground. One user wrote about suspending the image of a grid directly beneath his helicopter that tricked the HeliCommand to behave in a certain way. I can't remember what he did that for.

The Co-Pilot II uses infrared sensors that detect differences in temperature between the ground and the sky. I believe the original model was susceptable to issues when flown too close to building structures. I don't recall if they've addressed this with the new model.

I suspect the sensor equipment is less expensive between the two systems.

If you read Rafael23cc's comments about his experience with a predicessor model, he seems to have had pretty good experience with the equipment, and is still using it on one of his planes.

I'll let you know what I think of the equipment when mine arrives.