madtruck1

Yea this has to be one of the best years so far, and did you see the finish at Talladega??? Boy was that one close
What do you think of the 2 car racing there? everyone i ask say they hate it but i gotta say i love it.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BAQlgv0CA4[/youtube]

378

My Feedback: (4)

I might start watching again if they:

1: Drop the snorefest 1.5 mile tracks.
2: Remove those damned restrictor plates on the superspeedways
3: Throw in more road courses
4: Make the teams build the cars out of street-legal machinery. WRC does this, and they manage to get the cars safer than anything NASCAR runs, and it would negate the need for those stupid aero templates.
5: Remove the stupid insistence on stone-age tech. I love a good, simple, carb'd V8 as much as the next guy, but this is auto racing, let 'em have fuel injection if they want it. Ideally, they'd simply modify whatever the streetcar came with to suit their purposes. Now, to maintain balance between the various engines, I propose throwing them on an engine dyno and enforcing an 850HP cap instead. Doesn't matter how they get it, could be a wankel for all I care, but 850HP. That's it. If it's making more you've got to detune it. If it's making less, you've still got some room to experiment.
5a: If a team wishes to protest, the teams must be able to quickly remove the engine and set it up on a dyno for a spot-check, and there will be random spot-checks done regardless.
6: Do I have to mention the plates again? Daytona and Talledega used to be epic races before the planes safety'd it all up and ruined it, and being able to boast 240MPH top speeds in actual race conditions may just pull a few viewers(Myself included) away from Speed's F1 coverage.

proanti1

My Feedback: (2)

Its just fine the way it is. You are basically describing v8 super car. Nascar is an equal playing field. The need for the aero templates is because the bodies have to meet spec, the templates check for that. Its called 'stock car' for a reason, not because the cars are stock, but because they are all held to the same strict standards. The reason for the restrictors is because technology has advanced so greatly. These super speedways were designed a long time ago, long before the cars went as fast as they do now. Cars have better tires, better designed suspension, are more aerodynamic... which would allow them to move around the track faster than what would be safe. A crash at 240mph would be extremely dangerous, not only for the driver, but for the people in the stands as well.

Nascar is all about the little things... tweaking the car to get that extra second knocked off the lap time. Which makes it challenging for the drivers and the teams... its not like f1 where they can just cram in a larger engine to go faster.

The changes you are talking about would take the Nascar out of Nascar, and pretty much ruin the tradition.

378

My Feedback: (4)

So why does watching 3/4ths of the races they air put me to sleep? Why is the only reason to watch the plate races to see how big a crash they can have?

And that's ruining the sport. There used to be a day when there was a clear aero advantage with car A, causing the driver of Car B to have to be a better driver if he wanted to win. Nowadays they're all cookie-cutter clones.


It used to be called stock car racing because the cars resembled something you and I could buy. Nowadays the only way to tell Car F from Car T is the stickers. They're far closer to V8 Supercar now than they ever have been.

The reason for the plates is that back in the early 80s the tires couldn't handle the 240MPH speeds the cars were capable of. Now I'm not sure if it was the drivers crying to NASCAR, or if NASCAR was just getting infected by the "SAFETY FIRST DAMN EVERYTHING ELSE!" virus that went 'round in the 80's, but they decided that, instead of mandating that Goodyear come up with a tire that could handle the loads placed upon it, they simply choked the cars off.

So that's why they're doing 60MPH less than they did thirty years ago? The cars are better, so why the hell are we going so damn slow? Speed it up!


This is auto racing. If you want to be safe, buy a crown vic and go drive around on a desolate country road.

so is a crash at 185, 150, 70, hell even a crash at thirty can kill given the right circumstances.


Besides....you don't see the safety nannies ruining WRC. They still hurtle through a wood on dirt and snow at speeds that would classify one as insane, with nothing more than balls of steel, spiked tires and a hell of a roll cage keeping them from certain death. The drivers know the sport's dangerous, but they do it anyways. They don't pansy up to the FIA and ask that the cars be made safer at the expense of speed. On top of that, rally drivers take hits way harder than anyone in NASCAR is liable to take, and they do it REGULARLY. Barrel rolls are so damn commonplace they continue on if all four wheels are still attached. Lastly, it's actually safer without the plates. With the plates all forty three cars are bunched up into a single cluster-beep- If the guy in second loses a tire and slams into the wall, the guy in seventh is going to slam into him, and then the guy behind him gets involved, and by the time it's all said and done half the field is strewn across the track. But if they're uncapped they won't be gaggled up like that as badly. They won't be as close together, and they'll be less likely to all pile into each other if someone screws up.


Yank the plates and let 'em run, I say.


Oh, and should I mention that rally spectators stand on the damn apex with nothing but pure, unadulterated balls between them and 140MPH hatchbacks sliding around somewhat partially under control? I do? Well, okay.

Rally spectators aren't a few dozen feet behind fifty foot catch fences and concrete walls. They're right there on the side of the track. They're standing on the apex, they're standing on hillsides, hell sometimes they're actually on the track itself. I've seen plenty of videos where drivers have had to whoa their cars back, have had to weave through the crowds, and a couple where they had to throw the car into a field, just to avoid spectators trying to get some cool video. Yet you don't hear of WRC fans getting killed very often.


They can't even change their rear-end ratios a meaningful amount. Their shocks are supplied by NASCAR. Their engines, their bodies, everything is all cookie cutter identical. There's a bigger difference between Sebastian Vettle's RB7 and Mark Webber's RB7 than their is in the entire field at any given NASCAR event!


Nascar used to be about redneck A finding out if his muscle car is faster than Redneck B's. It was originally created as a way to find out of Moonshiner A had the faster car, which changed once Prohibition was repealed. When that was the basic premise, NASCAR was worth watching. I still watch the old races once in a while.

Oh god this cracked me up. Ok, lemme school ya a bit.

1: The FIA has had an engine freeze in place for a few years now. ALL engines are 2.4L 90º V8s producing roundabout 900HP. They're all rev-limited to 18,000 RPM despite being capable of 20K+, the engines are strictly controlled by the FIA, and they're all forced to run the same exact ECU. There is no meaningful difference in power across the field in F1, every engine is within 50HP of the next. Nobody can do any development to the engines in regard to output, only to increase reliability and fuel economy.*
2: Simply putting a bigger engine in a car that weighs just shy of 600 kilograms is only going to make it slower. They already have a fair amount of trouble putting the power down as-is. They have to wait until they're in third gear before they can truly stomp on it, otherwise they don't have enough downforce to out-accelerate a street-legal superbike. Even in second they have to roll into the throttle or they'll smoke the rears.
3: F1 cars are EXTREMELY light. Dry weight, no fuel no driver, is roundabout 500 kilos. Putting a bigger engine in a car that light is going to upset the rather delicate weight balance and will adversely affect the handling.


*The engine freeze will be lifted in 2012, and with that, we will see a new engine. 1.4L turbocharged I4s. Should be good.
That has already happened. NASCAR used to be about a bunch of guys taking a muscle car, throwing a cage on it, and seeing how far north of 200MPH it will go on an oval. Nowadays it's all safety. The drivers of 30 years ago had Balls of Steel, the drivers of today may not have any at all...Idunno it's probably just as well they can't go more than 185, I doubt they could handle one of those cars unleashed. A few of the drivers in the field could contain it, but the majority(Say, fifteenth on back) would have a bit of trouble. But I still say they should be uncapped, either those drivers will improve their skill or they will go back to the Busch series.

proanti1

My Feedback: (2)

If the races put you to sleep, watch something else.

You are trying to compare apples to oranges. A Toyota shaped midsize car is not an F1 car. Just because it can top out at 240, doesn't mean it should.

378

My Feedback: (4)

If I had a penny for every time I've heard this lame line I'd be rich enough to buy NASCAR.


you can keep making silly, false assumptions till you're blue in the face if you want, as for me, I'll keep doing as I have been doing for the past year and a half now: Watching racing that doesn't suck.

...You completely fell off the boat. First of all, you were the first one to bring F1 into this, and secondly, where the hell did you get the idea that I thought a Camry was an F1 car?

Come on man, I know you're better than that...

madtruck1

If someone dosent call that video i posted exciting then you need a good swing in the head, nascar is what it is. what if football went back to what it used to be, back when they first started playing people would die right in the middle of the game.

Ttam Says Blarg

Im not trying to get into this war but. You do know that restrictor plate racing is only on the superspeedways right? @ Michigan I saw a couple cars hit 207mph.

F1 is cool, nascar is cool, v8 supercars are cool moto gp and ama is cool. Why is it always the same with you people? Comparing the sports like anyone cares why F1 is sooo much better than nascar. If you like oval racing watch oval racing. Dont watch nascar thinking its going to be f1 cause its not.

proanti1

My Feedback: (2)

You go right ahead and watch "racing that doesn't suck". No one is stopping you.

You seem to think a Camry is capable of Indy 500 lap times if they removed the restrictor. So therefor, you must be comparing it to a an formula one car.

If you really hate Nascar so much, why are you even in a thread devoted to Nascar?

suburban_hooligan

Ttam Says Blarg

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3WjLJpmXZY[/youtube]

proanti1

My Feedback: (2)

I really wanted to watch that race, but it got rained out, then I was busy yesterday.

1320Fastback

Wow, way to choke on the restart.

I am staying out of this discussion.

Only going to ask if anyone saw the Top Gear report on 60Minuets? Got my answer in there.







F1 RULES

Enzyme80

2 things first go TONY!!!! and 2nd if Tony can't do it Go everyone else but Johnson!!!! 3 races left woo!

DarkFire989

THEY GO REAL FAST AND MAKE LEFT TURNS! LETS GO 500 MILES IN A CIRCLE!

Joking aside I do like to watch some races from time to time.

sheograth

This thread is for people who like Nascar to discuss it, if you don't, ignore it.

Enzyme80

Holy crap - what a great way to end the season. Not just because my favorite driver own but the top two in points tie for points at the end finishing 1-2 in the race. Tony won 5 of the last 10 races. Amazing. This was a great year for the sport and Johnson didn't win the title this year which is great as well.

The_Shark

i want to see nascar like how it was in the 60-70's with cars that resembled the cars they resemble, like superbirds, mustangs and so on.


what if they through right turn in there? THAT would be refreashing.

proanti1

My Feedback: (2)

Sonoma (Infineon) and Watkins Glen... plenty of right turns there.

Enzyme80

I never understand the people who say no right turns. Yes most of their races are left turn only but they run on two tracks (as stated above) with plenty of turns both left and right.

The history of racing has always been left turns - just think about it.