RC Skydiver Plans: Updated III
02-10-2003, 02:40 AM
#51
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Yeah cmsrp, I pumped! My brother in law is getting into it too!.. We will trade turns on being the drop pilot.
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Jim!
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Jim!
02-10-2003, 04:53 AM
#53
RC Skydiver Plans: Updated III
Man, have the words been flying.
I flew a Solomon jumper at the contest in muncie, this is my story "and i'm sticking to it".
I met Ken at Joe Nall 2002 after seeing his jumper and plane sitting by his tent. They caught my eye because they were cast from a plastic resin. I told him about the contest to be held at the AMA site in Muncie, IN in Sept. 2002. After several e-mails and phone calls he ask if I would be interested in taking one of his jumpers with me to the meet in Muncie, because he wasn't going to be able to go. I accepted his offer, I received the jumper and mounted the radio equipment in it, I was still waiting for the chute. I received the chute on a tuesday, it wasn't rigged yet ,so I did that Wednesday, took it to the field on Thursday and made Two drops. It didn't seem to steer like I wanted, but I was out of time because I was leaving on Fri. for the contest.
The day of the contest I strapped him to the plane and was ready to go, however my jump pilot had plane trouble.
After getting the plane fixed we were ready to go again.
Took off, gained a nice altitude and I called drop, he dropped straight into the ground. (I forgot to turn the jumper back on)
Broke one piece on the arm, which was easily glued, and stripped both servos. Replaced them and was ready to go again.
We made several more drops, but I still couldn't get the steering problem straightned out, which I think is in my rigging job.
Several hours have now passed and I wasn't getting any good scores, so I decided to go to my jumper, one that I was used to flying.
The Jumper in the picture, the one that I won the contest with is a Wally Gitchel design. It also used a Gitchel design chute that I reduced by 20% to keep from having to add weight to the jumper.
I had the chute at - 20 deg. incidence, Ken is using less, if he would have had time to rig the chute for me I think I would have at least placed in the top three with his.
I'm in the process of rerigging the Solomon jumper's chute.
I hope to get him diaded in before the contest in North Carolina.
Gary V
I flew a Solomon jumper at the contest in muncie, this is my story "and i'm sticking to it".
I met Ken at Joe Nall 2002 after seeing his jumper and plane sitting by his tent. They caught my eye because they were cast from a plastic resin. I told him about the contest to be held at the AMA site in Muncie, IN in Sept. 2002. After several e-mails and phone calls he ask if I would be interested in taking one of his jumpers with me to the meet in Muncie, because he wasn't going to be able to go. I accepted his offer, I received the jumper and mounted the radio equipment in it, I was still waiting for the chute. I received the chute on a tuesday, it wasn't rigged yet ,so I did that Wednesday, took it to the field on Thursday and made Two drops. It didn't seem to steer like I wanted, but I was out of time because I was leaving on Fri. for the contest.
The day of the contest I strapped him to the plane and was ready to go, however my jump pilot had plane trouble.
After getting the plane fixed we were ready to go again.
Took off, gained a nice altitude and I called drop, he dropped straight into the ground. (I forgot to turn the jumper back on)
Broke one piece on the arm, which was easily glued, and stripped both servos. Replaced them and was ready to go again.
We made several more drops, but I still couldn't get the steering problem straightned out, which I think is in my rigging job.
Several hours have now passed and I wasn't getting any good scores, so I decided to go to my jumper, one that I was used to flying.
The Jumper in the picture, the one that I won the contest with is a Wally Gitchel design. It also used a Gitchel design chute that I reduced by 20% to keep from having to add weight to the jumper.
I had the chute at - 20 deg. incidence, Ken is using less, if he would have had time to rig the chute for me I think I would have at least placed in the top three with his.
I'm in the process of rerigging the Solomon jumper's chute.
I hope to get him diaded in before the contest in North Carolina.
Gary V
02-10-2003, 04:57 AM
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Thanks for the info Gary:
I'm looking forward to meeting you if I can make it down in NC. Ken has told me ALL about you... lol!
I'm looking forward to meeting you if I can make it down in NC. Ken has told me ALL about you... lol!
02-10-2003, 06:19 PM
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My boss at work is a member of a 4 way formation sydive team. I think he is going to make an RC skydiver with his team logos and what not. Should be pretty neat. I will let you know when it is ready to go.
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02-10-2003, 07:48 PM
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RC Skydiver Plans: Updated III
Look in Germany for this dude. His name is Charlie.
I've spent many days/nights with this guy. A servo at each arm pit, a mixer(brakes) - Split at the waist - micro servo with rod for pack release - fiberglass/plastic chute tub - and a smile
He's broken a few bones. Had a few drops from within the clouds, ejected from a plane before impact...and survived two flat spins to the ground.....one with his crotch on the vertical...the other with the chute on the vertical. In both cases the plane survived. One was a counterbalancing flat spin into a field. The other was when he landed on the vertical but his chute opened fully...like a drag chute for the whole plane. It kept the tail up...full throttle. We actually landed the .040 trainer like this.
We put chem lights on him and dropped him over in Hungary too.
Look under the plane.
John
I've spent many days/nights with this guy. A servo at each arm pit, a mixer(brakes) - Split at the waist - micro servo with rod for pack release - fiberglass/plastic chute tub - and a smile
He's broken a few bones. Had a few drops from within the clouds, ejected from a plane before impact...and survived two flat spins to the ground.....one with his crotch on the vertical...the other with the chute on the vertical. In both cases the plane survived. One was a counterbalancing flat spin into a field. The other was when he landed on the vertical but his chute opened fully...like a drag chute for the whole plane. It kept the tail up...full throttle. We actually landed the .040 trainer like this.
We put chem lights on him and dropped him over in Hungary too.
Look under the plane.
John
02-10-2003, 10:44 PM
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Gootrod
Your description say's "Drawings of Parafoil Parachute", but the video shows only a flat sheet type canopy... Is this what the plans show?
Your description say's "Drawings of Parafoil Parachute", but the video shows only a flat sheet type canopy... Is this what the plans show?
02-10-2003, 11:12 PM
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Parafoil Parachute
The quality of the video is not very good. Sorry. I will have a new video in April. It is a Parafoil in the video. The parachute drawings and packing video are of the Parafoil Parachute.
Thanks for your interest.
Charlie
Thanks for your interest.
Charlie
02-11-2003, 12:15 AM
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hey i have one of those charlies, been dropped a few times. dont like the servos in the armpits, too easy to strip servo gears. have a big chute and going to get another dude for my son.
02-11-2003, 12:21 AM
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Charlie Skydiver
Hello rc.hackmaster,
I haven't seen a charlie skydiver. I haven't had any problems with the servos in the rcjumper as of yet.
I haven't seen a charlie skydiver. I haven't had any problems with the servos in the rcjumper as of yet.
02-11-2003, 12:34 AM
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well, i will be getting a new diver for my son. i will stick with charlie. he is made by robbe, no longer produced. i got a chute off ebay for 30 bucks in great shape. just need to get another diver and get my son trained to fly (he is doing great, expect to solo this spring) and then we'll be having tons of fun!
02-11-2003, 03:27 AM
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SkyDiver Plans
I beleive you have infringed upon a copyright that you say is yours. Untrue.
suggest you check out things in real life befor printing something that has been already copyrighted.
John and Bob
R/C SkyDive St.Louis
suggest you check out things in real life befor printing something that has been already copyrighted.
John and Bob
R/C SkyDive St.Louis
02-11-2003, 03:42 AM
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as far as i know it is no longer produced, but i just might check hobby lobby and look. ..... and HEY YOU GUYS CHILL OUT! this is just a message board! i dont like seeing this kind of crap going on in here SO NOCK IT OFF! this is supposed to be a fun hobby and you guys are making it not fun, i like being here, but if i see more of this bickering i will have to.....well lets just see.
02-11-2003, 03:48 AM
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rc.hackmaster
I think they are talking about another jumper, not Charlie... The problem here though, is that there is alot of copyrighted stuff around. Law suits are very common these day's, so everyone has to cover themselves, and unfortunately this happens in all aspects of life at the moment...
Alot of people get involved in things for personal gain only, and they forget the person(s) that have done all the hard work... I bet others wouldnt like their hard work and development copied, I know I dont!!!! A simple e-mail asking permission usually solves these problems...
I think they are talking about another jumper, not Charlie... The problem here though, is that there is alot of copyrighted stuff around. Law suits are very common these day's, so everyone has to cover themselves, and unfortunately this happens in all aspects of life at the moment...
Alot of people get involved in things for personal gain only, and they forget the person(s) that have done all the hard work... I bet others wouldnt like their hard work and development copied, I know I dont!!!! A simple e-mail asking permission usually solves these problems...
02-11-2003, 04:01 AM
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Please explain.
Perhaps I misunderstand how copyright law works (I'm by no means a lawyer), but I am having trouble seeing how this could possibly be a copyright infringment. Allow me to explain...
I was there when this little guy was designed -- all the way from a few scribbles on a napkin to its final completion. I watched him be created from different materials until a suitable combination was found. I watched unsuccessful jumps during the early phases of the project while the little things were being lined out (like the best way to pack the chute). So saying that these plans are infringing on your copyright really doesn't make sense to me. I seen them created, and I can vouch for the authenticity of the author.
I did a little digging trying to educate myself in copyright law, and I did find a few interesting tidbits. First I wanted to see if these plans needed to be "officially" registered with some office in order to be properly copyrighted. Here is a quote from the US Copyright Office web site:
Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, section Copyright Registration.
So it appears that no actual "official" documents needed to be filed for these plans to be copyrighted. Next I wanted to know what qualified in legal terms as the creator of a document. So once again, a quote from the US Copyright Office:
Who is an author?
Under the copyright law, the creator of the original expression in a work is its author. The author is also the owner of copyright unless there is a written agreement by which the author assigns the copyright to another person or entity, such as a publisher. In cases of works made for hire (see Circular 9), the employer or commissioning party is considered to be the author.
According to this definition, this copyright is valid as I saw the creation all the way through. I know that the creator of the document can be verified as its author.
And finally, I wanted to know if a copyright could protect an idea, or some other sort of intellectual property. Another quote:
How do I protect my idea?
Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work.
If you are referring to a patent, then that would be a different story. If it is a patent, the please accept my apologies and I'm sure the right thing will be done. I would like to see the patent number if that is the case.
Once again, I just want to be clear on this matter, as I hate to see all this work be ruined by someone claiming something that I just don't quite understand. If I am incorrect in any of this, please feel free to explain my misconceptions.
But the way I see it now there is no copyright infringment occuring with these plans. I also know for a fact that this jumper was created entirely from scratch with a lot of hard work, late nights, and dedication.
Thank you.
Perhaps I misunderstand how copyright law works (I'm by no means a lawyer), but I am having trouble seeing how this could possibly be a copyright infringment. Allow me to explain...
I was there when this little guy was designed -- all the way from a few scribbles on a napkin to its final completion. I watched him be created from different materials until a suitable combination was found. I watched unsuccessful jumps during the early phases of the project while the little things were being lined out (like the best way to pack the chute). So saying that these plans are infringing on your copyright really doesn't make sense to me. I seen them created, and I can vouch for the authenticity of the author.
I did a little digging trying to educate myself in copyright law, and I did find a few interesting tidbits. First I wanted to see if these plans needed to be "officially" registered with some office in order to be properly copyrighted. Here is a quote from the US Copyright Office web site:
Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, section Copyright Registration.
So it appears that no actual "official" documents needed to be filed for these plans to be copyrighted. Next I wanted to know what qualified in legal terms as the creator of a document. So once again, a quote from the US Copyright Office:
Who is an author?
Under the copyright law, the creator of the original expression in a work is its author. The author is also the owner of copyright unless there is a written agreement by which the author assigns the copyright to another person or entity, such as a publisher. In cases of works made for hire (see Circular 9), the employer or commissioning party is considered to be the author.
According to this definition, this copyright is valid as I saw the creation all the way through. I know that the creator of the document can be verified as its author.
And finally, I wanted to know if a copyright could protect an idea, or some other sort of intellectual property. Another quote:
How do I protect my idea?
Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work.
If you are referring to a patent, then that would be a different story. If it is a patent, the please accept my apologies and I'm sure the right thing will be done. I would like to see the patent number if that is the case.
Once again, I just want to be clear on this matter, as I hate to see all this work be ruined by someone claiming something that I just don't quite understand. If I am incorrect in any of this, please feel free to explain my misconceptions.
But the way I see it now there is no copyright infringment occuring with these plans. I also know for a fact that this jumper was created entirely from scratch with a lot of hard work, late nights, and dedication.
Thank you.
02-11-2003, 04:05 AM
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yeah i figured that out. charlie is a all orange plastic guy. these other guys just cant play nice can they? well i say kick the trouble maker off the playground!
02-11-2003, 04:14 AM
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bsumpter
You are correct in the infomation that you have been given. But I must inform everyone of this...
If any legal action is started in regards to a copyright product, the court representatives start by asking the normal questions; When was it designed, do you have dated blueprints etc.
Then they investigate themselves using means such as libraries, and in this day and age, the internet...
If they find something that is very close, the designer of the first item (by proven date) is contacted.
If they find that something is available to the public on the internet, and it is very close, that gets presidence over anything else... Ideas cannot be copyrighted, but design and manufacture can... It's a bummer, but it is also nessesary
You are correct in the infomation that you have been given. But I must inform everyone of this...
If any legal action is started in regards to a copyright product, the court representatives start by asking the normal questions; When was it designed, do you have dated blueprints etc.
Then they investigate themselves using means such as libraries, and in this day and age, the internet...
If they find something that is very close, the designer of the first item (by proven date) is contacted.
If they find that something is available to the public on the internet, and it is very close, that gets presidence over anything else... Ideas cannot be copyrighted, but design and manufacture can... It's a bummer, but it is also nessesary
02-11-2003, 04:19 AM
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cmsrp: Agreed.
But one quick question. In order to claim infringment, shouldn't the accuser at least look at the plans? To the best of my knowledge John Sedovic has not purchased these plans, and therefore is yelling infringment without even seeing them?
Am I missing something?
But one quick question. In order to claim infringment, shouldn't the accuser at least look at the plans? To the best of my knowledge John Sedovic has not purchased these plans, and therefore is yelling infringment without even seeing them?
Am I missing something?
02-11-2003, 04:53 AM
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bsumpter
I do not know if John has, or has not bought these plans that you mention... I presume these are the plans from http://www.rcjumper.com/ or is it the plans I posted the link for at RCM???
Any way, I have just bought the plans from http://www.rcjumper.com/ and I also have the RCM plans... As they both dont show the Airfoil canopy design as I would like, they are no good to me. If John does not have them, I would be willing to supply them to him (as a gift, No financial value; Just let me get that clear), and they will be out of my possession... If you read this John, let me know...
I do not know if John has, or has not bought these plans that you mention... I presume these are the plans from http://www.rcjumper.com/ or is it the plans I posted the link for at RCM???
Any way, I have just bought the plans from http://www.rcjumper.com/ and I also have the RCM plans... As they both dont show the Airfoil canopy design as I would like, they are no good to me. If John does not have them, I would be willing to supply them to him (as a gift, No financial value; Just let me get that clear), and they will be out of my possession... If you read this John, let me know...
02-11-2003, 04:56 AM
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Hey guys, <sentence removed by moderator>
As far as copyright infringement, man, that's a tough one to defend. Our hobby is made up of many fine people with good character, and a few who are a bit shady.
But.... that's just the nature of people. I will say this though. If we cried wolf every time someone came out with a new airplane design, there wouldn't be much of a selection. Every plane is a derivative of many others. There are very few variables in building a skydiver compared to say, a heli, or airplane. As this part of the hobby expands, I'm sure we will see many variations of the same few designs. I don't have a lot of experience with this part of the hobby, but I am learning from guy like Ken, Gary, cmsrp, and others who want to share their experience.
Jim!
As far as copyright infringement, man, that's a tough one to defend. Our hobby is made up of many fine people with good character, and a few who are a bit shady.
But.... that's just the nature of people. I will say this though. If we cried wolf every time someone came out with a new airplane design, there wouldn't be much of a selection. Every plane is a derivative of many others. There are very few variables in building a skydiver compared to say, a heli, or airplane. As this part of the hobby expands, I'm sure we will see many variations of the same few designs. I don't have a lot of experience with this part of the hobby, but I am learning from guy like Ken, Gary, cmsrp, and others who want to share their experience.
Jim!