Tom02

My Feedback: (3)

I bought a predator from Darrol Cady about a month and a half ago and the plane has about 30 flights on it and I have had no problems with it until yesterday. On about the 6th flight of the day I came around Pylon 3 and the firewall blows right out, and it was a clean break, the plane was landed in a corn field and nothing else was damaged. I have no idea why this would have happened. Does anybody have a clue why the firewall would just break out?

Thanks

Tom

R.Bridge

What kind of motor do you have on the front of it (428 or 424)..?

Actually that really doesn't matter. It seems obvious that the firewall is certainly not reinforced enough, which is certainly not fault of yours. When you put the firewall back in, be sure to use slow cure epoxy and a generous amount of chopped glass or chopped carbon.

Does anybody know if the company making the predator will provide Tom with a replacement fuse at either no charge or 1/2 off ?????????

Sorry about your misfortune Tom....

Randy Bridge
Team JR

PylonWorld

Firewalls breaking out? That would be #6 on my infamous list of the 7 deadly sins of the Predator at http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...37&forumid=111.

Is your Predator the old one or the new one? The new one has a 3/8" firewall, and the old one was less than 1/4".

The new Predator is supposed to have glass on the outside, but they still aren't pinning them with toothpicks (small dowels). It takes a lot of strength to keep the firewall in place, especially with a .46 or a 428 (Jett,Nelson) engine. If you put it back in, use fibers as Randy said, or microfibers in the epoxy. Also drill 2 or 3 holes through the sides into the firewall and insert small dowels or toothpicks coated in epoxy.

You should call Lanier and at least let them know it happened..

daven

My Feedback: (1)

.

Druce

I really don't think it is the Predators fault that it has faults..
It is an ARF, as with all ARF'S they need to be inspected. AS a result most ARF's need to be reinforced and have things replaced or modified. This seems to me that this is pretty standard knowledge.
I have two Predators which I have reinforced and raced them, and I'm pretty impressed. I have another scale ARF which I also reinforced that I really like. For the most part they are pretty straight and not bad for weight either.

SO!! to sum it up I have to put the blame on the pilot for being negligent. So blame yourself for not taking the time to reinforce them and not the airplanes!!!!

fastlash

My Feedback: (7)

Druce is right about having to beef it up but wrong on the firewall issue if it was locked into the fuse ply reinforcements correctly and a extra second for the factory to pin the thing in it would stay put, plus the glass on the fuse firewall is not heavy enough even with a ton of glue, you do have the right to expect the enginnering to be correct, what some people need to keep in mind that not every one is a seasoned pro and knows the in-N outs or did some of you forget your horrer storys when you first started out???

splatt

The predators aren't going to take much business away from the quality manufactures anytime soon, but they are help getting folks into or back into racing. I've had good success with them, but I don't recommend them for your first quickie unless you have access to the knowledge it takes to see the potential problems

I ran mine in 428 and 424 type racing and they take off straight and track nice. Leaving the thumb and forefinger as the only issue.

Someone up here put a new nelson on a newer production model and was radared at 170 MPH, so get off your pc and race

R.Bridge

Predator going 170mph is like a wheel-barrel winning the Indy 500. Did not happen and never will ...... The fastest number I've ever seen with any of my Vortex's is 171 on the race course. But most of the time it's around 167 to 169... So if "someone" can get the time off, take that thing to the Nats, it would be a sure winner....

rb

splatt

Well then, I put the question to DaveN because he told me the story last week. The nelson in question was brand spank'in new was being tweaked hard. So Dave is it true or not ?

PylonWorld

Jesse / others,

My concern when I first wrote my assessment was that new potential racers would buy them, and then have problems. A lot of people coming from the ARF community do not have experience with preparation of a racer, and especially one that needs some work. Even the new one still needs some work.

Lanier advertised in the major mags, which indicates they wanted to sell them to everyone, not just existing racers.

I don't agree with Druce that people should know better. Most people assume that an ARF is structurally sound, at least for the engine sizes stated on the box. Go above the engine rating on the box and yes, one should assume they might have to do some extra work.

Lanier has been responsive to the known problems. If this plane was from the new run of planes, then people need to let them know that there are still issues. Pinning the firewall has been common practice on Quickies for a long time. They should be doing it, and the consumers should let them know when a plane doesn't hold up.

Even Hanger 9 had a big problem with an ARF. The large Edge 540 was breaking wings. Eventually Horizon got the message and stopped manufacturing the plane until they could solve the problem. Plus they offered to replace the wings (at least) of the existing planes.

Fortunately Lanier addressed a number of problems that were on my list. We need to help them make the plane suitable for first timers that don't spend time on thier PC's getting info from others.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

As to 171 mph, I saw the reading myself off a quality radar gun. This was not on the race course, but it was a flat and level run across the field.

There was some wind that day, but it was more of a crosswind. At most that added 5-10 mph.

I was suprised myself, as my fastest plane on the course was 167 with my old Vortex.

splatt

that pilot who ran 171 sent his check for a nelson in a envelope made of 100 dollar bills , that always helps

R.Bridge

Okay boys, no more serious complaining. The FAA is on to us... we should all be happy that there is a ARF Q500 available for $110.00 bucks (however much it is).

ALL YOU BEGINNERS LISTEN UP ! REINFORCE THAT FIREWALL, USE SOME THICK CA ON ALL MAJOR FUSELAGE LINES, REINFORCE THE WING HOLD DOWNS AND LANDING GEAR PLATE.......AND GO HAVE SOME FUN !! if you need help, call one of the experienced guys.


and "Big Wave" Dave Norman...just playing with you :-) can I borrow that motor for the Nats... jk


and they call me....Travis' caller

R.Bridge

Not you guys ! all those beginners that may read our little forum here .........


Travis' caller

fastlash

My Feedback: (7)

Lets kill this one its getting off track,, Flame out, what you say fellows, fastlash

daven

My Feedback: (1)

No reason to kill it. Randy has as much experience with on the race course speeds as anyone.

I'm only reporting what I have seen. I have flown the predator, and I have flown most of the composites. To think a predator is going to be serious competition for one of the higher end composites is a bit out there.

Then again, give Randy a strengthened Predator and he'd give most of the Q500 racers a run for their money.

As to this specific engine, I tend to agree with Randy. 90% of the engines out there are the same. The top 10% are there because they are broken in properly, and taken care of. I have no intention to borrow this persons Q500 engine, but I do have one of his Q40 engines that also seems to go like stink.

Now if I could just learn to fly like you California boys.

Steven J

Wow! I just bought a brand new Nelson 428 motor, and for once this is my chance to be in the 10%. So how do I properly break in my engine.
-Stephen

R.Bridge

So how do I properly break in my engine.
-Stephen


That is the big question Stephen. I think every racer has his own method. BUT, what I do is find a prop that will allow the motor to rev about 19,500 to 20,000. For me I use the 8.8x8.9 or the 8.75x9.0W, both of these props unload very well and will rev the numbers I look for. I also run the head .003 higher than normal, just to keep the heating problem down. I fire it up and launch it about 1,000 to 1,200 below peak. I repeat this for at least 5 flights. Oh by the way, I break all my motors in....IN THE AIR, and not on the bench. After 5 runs I run the motor at about 1,000 to 700 off peak (same prop). Once I've got to 10 runs, I pull the .003 back out from under the head. Run it a few more times with the two props I mentioned and that should get you to where you need to be. Put the 8.8x8.75 on it and go get em'..!


Remember that this may not work for all competitors. Many guys break in on the bench..


Randy Bridge
Team JR

PylonWorld

Thanks for sharing your method Randy. Do your pistons and liners seem to hold up?

Until I got back into R/C, I was always a bench runner. Then I broke a couple of Tower 46's in both ways and the one broken in on the plane, in the air, turned out to be the stronger engine. The problem with that engine is consistancy, so I didn't necessarily accept the results.

Most former control line speed people will swear by the bench. One thing about those planes is that you don't just take them up for practice, so the bench is a necessity.

But I've always wondered about the vibration aspect of the break-in. The bench constrains the vibration to the engine, whereas in flight, the vibration is distributed to the airframe.

Another thing about the bench, especially on Q-500 engines is that the engine is constrained by the lugs which it will not be on the plane. It it ever comes, I'm getting the www.pspmfg.com break-in stand, and a gas engine backmount attachment, so that I can put the Q-500 engines on the stand using the backplate mount.

fastlash

My Feedback: (7)

I agree with rany about breaking it in ,in the air it just seems to keep the air over it better and as long as you keep the flying break in free of a lot of vertical manuvers easy, the motor will love the the unloaded breakin I used to bench run the cheap 40 sport engines on the bech, but after noticeing that the ones with Marginal pinch when new lost the pinch asap as with bearking them in the air, the pinch remained a lot longer, which you do want because this is your compession seal, go with what randy does including the head shims Very Important !!

R.Bridge

Oops, forgot to add that. Thanks for putting that in there. I don't make a bunch of tight turns. I try to make big sweeping turns so the motor stays wound up. Good point.....

Again, to all who read this.. My methods may not be the right ones, it just seems to work for me. My motors last a long time, and actually I won the last 2 Q500 Nats with the same motor. I don't put a lot of time on this engine, I only run it at big races not the local ones. It must have over 100 runs though. But I think the best past about my motors are not the top ends, it's the bottom end stuff. Which I have to admit, Shadel does all my crank and bearing work. He is the best at freeing up a bottom end, which in turn lets the top end get it !

Don, you asked about piston and liners holding up for me. I'd say yes. Quickie top ends seem to last forever for me, it's the Q40 top ends that I plow through. Mostly because I tend to turn that needle in a little too much some times, I've been trying to do better with that though..

Randy

Tom02

My Feedback: (3)

Thank you all for your advice on how to fix my plane. Carbon was used on the inside, the outside was glassed and capped, and it was also doweled. Special thanks to Steve Baker, maker of the GI8U2, for doing the repairs for me.

PylonWorld

Was your plane one of the new ones with the 3/8" firewall and plywood wing hold downs?

Tom02

My Feedback: (3)

Yes it was.