DMehalko

My Feedback: (42)

I am new to racing but want to get into it.

I used to have a predator with a 46fx and pipe untill the wing left the plane in the air.

But my main question is who makes what? I am looking for another racer but dont know of any except the predator, scat cat, and viper.

Any more you guys can help me out with?

Thanks
David

rcrq500

Go to http://www.pylonworld.com/rc_pylon/q...500_planes.htm and start your search there. Hope this helps.
Rick Marquez

DMehalko

My Feedback: (42)

That helped out a ton!! Thanks!

David

rcrq500

Your welcome.... Good luck!![8D]
Rick Marquez

bigelwood314

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Pylon world is a good source of airplane, but if u want to race in the 424 (APRA) events, u r not able to use any compoisite airframe...Pylon world is not up to date with all of the new woodies out there on the market. Here is a list of some other good woodies:

Force by Lee Ulinger (on pylon world)
Racer 2 by Bill Vargas www.lcsperformance.com/racerII/racerII.html
SAM-RAI by Sam San [email protected]
Seeker by Dave Norman http://www.lcsperformance.com/seeker/seeker.html

the Preditor and viper r a good airplane to start off in 424 with, Tanner Pacini was flying a Preditor in 424 at the last race and he did great with it, he also had a Viper in 428 class but wasnt able to get in the air to show us how it would go.

but im sure there is other airplanes out there but those are the top dogs as of right now, other people such as JohnBuckner is building his own design with a Bill Vargas wing, as alot of people do.

Hope this helped any.

Cole

P. Johnson

My Feedback: (1)

I hope that i don't step on too many toes here...BUT...i am really curious of something.

I am an older q500 pilot that quit flying 8 years ago and want to get back into what looks like a very different sport!
This was originally supposed to be an "entry level" event that was AFFORDABLE! What happenend?????????????????
kits were $30.00,,,,,a good engine was $85.00,,,,,,,and a radio that you were used to using was whatever you felt comfortable with!
I just want to know 1 thing.....WHAT HAPPENED???????????
We used to have 35 to 45 entries to a race, people were having fun, the Planes were all made by hand because the Hobby was a HOBBY !!!
So does this mean that a skilled pilot isnt competative because a rich person can BUY a win? Personally,,,,I would like to see the evn go back to the 1980's when we used a "sport" engine on "wood" aircraft and everyone had fun!
OKAY...i am stepping off my soap box for a while...if anyone has a comment on any of this or wants to shut me down,,,PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DO SO,,because i just wanted to share my oppinion with others who feel the same.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

Welcome back to pylon.

You are right about the original intent of Quickie. The “problem� occurred when it was added to the Nationals as an event. Prior to that, it was more or less a local event that ran with local rules in addition to the generic measurements of area, weight, etc. That meant that what ever club ran the event usually set engine rules.

The only problem that I experienced in the “good old days� was the fact that there was a lot of cheating in the engine department in our local races. It got expensive, as it seemed that there was always the engine of the month. We started with Kladder and Bang engines, but then since no one used non-schnuerle ported engines anymore, they whined until we started allowing the newer engines. This was the beginning of the end at the local level, hence the engine of the month. But many were quite gifted at cheating, either in the engine or even in the fuel tank with doses of high nitro fuel.

Much changed when the Nelson arrived. Expensive as he’ll initially, it turns out to be rather inexpensive in the long run. The cheaters all quit racing for the most part. Since the Nelson (and now Jett) were already as good as it gets, the cheaters no longer had any advantage. However, we had a spectacular year for airframe failures since we were going about 30 mph faster (would be close to 50 now). So technology marches on, and the composite plane appeared. Unless you are at the very top of the flying skills, you are better off building your own plane, and spend most of your money on fuel to practice.

I maintain that you can build with balsa and foam and NOT be outrun by composite designs. But only if you know how to design and build.

Fortunately the 424 event was rolled out, primarily by Jim Allen and the fellows that he races with in Arizona. They understood the need to have an entry level event They set RPM limits, set up allowable engines. Several of the racers down there have developed kits that cost little other than time, but are state of the art.

So the show goes on!!!!!!!!!

daven

My Feedback: (1)

I agree Rob.

On a national level Pylon has evolved ten-fold, and how can you expect any less. Every year, someone comes out with some new trick or technique to make them go just a little bit faster while staying within the confines of the rules.

Locally, we have more stringent rules to keep the costs down. Stock unmodified O.S. .46 engines and airframes with a maximum $200 retail cost.

We had a local race yesterday, and had 27 entrants. One of our higher turnouts over the past 25 years. The newer ARFs have helped a lot. Compare a current $110 ARF to the $30 Scat cat you flew 10 years ago, and the cheap arf will be faster (and cheaper) compared to what you would have invested in the Scat Cat to get it off the ground.

I don't agree with your statement "buying a win". Compete at a national level event, and 2/3rds of the fliers will have the best equipment possible including $400-$600 airframes, $400 motors, quite often $200 in servos alone, Nimh or Duralite batteries, and a PCM receiver. Quickee has gotten extremely difficult at the Nationals because so many people are great fliers and also have great equiptment.

I guess my main point is, I agree with you (Mostly) on a National Level, but there are still many areas that have "Low Cost" local classes that have kept the cost under control. Don't let the top end side of it keep you away, look into 424 in the Wisconsin / Rockford area, and if you want to come up to Minneapolis we have 8+ Entry level races every year.

P. Johnson

My Feedback: (1)

Okay, i can accept the nelson and Jett engines have eliminated the "engine cheaters" part...all of that makes sence. I have heard all the old stories of the crome vats and cool port changes. I even remember the stories of the supertiger X40 sleeve fitting right into a S40 case. Off of the engine part now!
What i am trying to get at here....why is there a need for an airframe that ranges from $350 to $500 and prove that a wood plane is not going to be competative. Maybe it is a new era ,BUT, how can something that is supposed to be a "HOBBY" , continue to be a "hobby" if there is no "craftsmanship" in what you are flying? What i mean,,,,when was the last time someone flew a plane that he built himself(whether it was a kit or scratch built) and was competative? I am not trying to say that the makers of these composite planes are not craftsmen,but they are making a $$$ on there skills. I am referring to the "true Hobbiest" that wants to fly,HAS SKILLS and wants to be competative. or is this now a PROFESSIONAL EVENT? Again...PLEASE,,,am i too old or is this now an event for the rich and single people who have nothing else to spend there money on ecept there "sport"?

P. Johnson

My Feedback: (1)

I am sorry dave, I was in midresponce when i got pulled away to do the "family" thing,came back, finished my responce and didnt see that you had responded. 2/3 of the pilots at the national event are running $1000 aircraft? The national event is one thing,but at everyevent it seems that they are using these planes. "good for them"! Now i have 1 more question for you. I am a skilled builder,designer, and have built many competative airplanes in the past. I know how to build a strong straight wing and a straight fuse. you mentioned that there are some "new" tecniques out there to make these more competative, i am all ears and would love to know all of the "tricks" of the new era. I am a firm believer that I have a very good airfoil and that i can build a good plane. Please share any info that you have
Thank you for your responces,
Storm

js3

My Feedback: (3)

Peter,

See the thread called "Future of Composites " at http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_18..._1/key_/tm.htm form some cool design ideas. We do tend to go on a bit but there is good info there and more on the debate of composite vs. wood airplanes.

Welcome back!

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Storm,

I've been working on my own wood design for about the past year and a half. I am far from an expert on these things, but feel I have a plane that flies as well as any of the composites out there. Unfortunately, with foam and balsa, and my crude building I feel I am about 5 mph off the fastest planes out there (Vortex/Neme-Q).

Some of the techniques are skinned hinges, see the following thread:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Skin..._383340/tm.htm

And, for me, I do what I call a "semi-composite" tail, you can see a thread on it here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/%22S...1471025/tm.htm

The Composites thread listed by JS3 also has some neat ideas in it (although labor intensive).

Considering the cost of the "top end" planes, I will continue to work on my own plane and hope to find that magical "5 mph". However, if I'm going to the expense of traveling to a big race, I'm going to bring a plane I feel will be competitive. Right now, thats either a Vortex or Neme-Q to me. Locally, I'll continue to fly my Seekers, and work out the bugs.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

Storm,

I’m a relic that’s entered my first race in 1974, and really got into it in 1980. Since you are a “skilled builder� I think that I can help get you up to speed, so to speak. It really doesn’t matter too much which speed range of Quickie you compete in, what I am going to tell you works regardless of engine power.

First, (and Last) drag reduction is the key to speed. I have worked at nothing else since the mid 80’s, and studied as much material on the subject as I can find. The posts that John (js3) mentions have some basic data on fuselage design and a bit on wings that I posted at John’s prodding and urging.

For Quickie, I found that you could really lower the drag of the fuselage by a considerable amount by moving the wide point of the fuselage to the trailing edge of the wing. This gives the effects of wing fillets and prevents flow separation. I arrived at this in the early 90’s when I got back into Quickie (OK, it was the Nelson engine that brought me back). I published an article in Model Aviation (April, 1998 under Dible) that you can look up on the AMA site’s digital archive on fuselage design as well as a few other concepts. There, you can read a poor attempt at placing 10 pounds of information into a 5 pound bag.

I am currently writing a new article that covers and amplifies all the old speed concepts that I have developed and used, some of the current improvements, and some ideas that I think will improve upon present design concepts. So far, only John (js3) and Duane (DHG) have seen drafts and they are sworn to secrecy. Coconspirators are necessary for so much in racing! This one is more like 50 pounds of information, but should arrive in a gunny sack. Or hopefully - an upcoming issue of Model Aviation.

For the skeptics that might question my motives, these concepts are well proven. Hopefully they will help raise the bar for everyone. But don’t worry, though some of it is bleeding edge it’s not everything. There is a second gunny sack that I’ve been working on filling. I’m still at work on the elusive 180 mph Quickie design.

Bob Dible

Ed Smith

Storm,

Do not lose heart or give up. I build all of my own airplanes from scratch. I make my own fuselage molds. I use a glass fuselage because it is quicker to build and more robust than wood. My wings are foam cored. I have about $80.00 in material in the whole airplane. I have nothing against composite airplanes. I am one of those hobbyists you talk about. My airplanes are just as fast as anybody elses. The airplanes just need a good pilot, that is where it all goes to hell.

Composite airplanes do not address a speed issue. They address a building time issue. You either build or you buy!

Ed S

Stand

There's also a write up by Bill Vargas on skinned hinged V-tails:

[link=http://www.nmpra.org/Documents/Skinned-hinges/Vargus/v-tail-hinges.html] NMPRA V-tail hinges[/link]

You can also find Dave Norman's skinned hinges there in a little more readable format:

[link=http://www.nmpra.org/Documents/Skinned-hinges/Hinges.htm]NMPRA Dave's Aileron Hinges[/link]

P. Johnson

My Feedback: (1)

Holy cow,
I am so pleased to actually get some good info without being bashed for sharing my feelings here. I am not going to jump up and down and say that i am the best pilot that ever walked into the quickee world,But i am a good pilot that knows how to find my way around the poles in the shortest route available. I think that all iof the composite designers need to get credit for being able to develope a quickee so that it really makes the hobby a better one. You see i didnt want to invest the time and money to get back into a hobby only to find out that unless i was willing to spend the BIG bucks,i wasn't going to be competative.Now i feel a little better about all of it and am going to refine my building techniques to incoorporate the new ideas.
Again, Thank you for all of the imput,
Now if i can just keep my head from spinning around from all of this[sm=spinnyeyes.gif] Storm

Ed Smith

Storm, (Are you hiding from loan sharks or something? How about a real name!)

To try and keep you interested I have attached some pictures of my scratch built Quicky. Glass fuselage, foam wing. Nothing too original here the rule book pretty much designs them for you.

The pictures also show my detachable tail. You might want to consider this. It makes pushrod installation real easy. Also, at the moment I have a finished, undamaged spare tail. Guess how I got that!

Ed S

Per_N

ED
That was one of the most beautiful tails I have seen. I guess you have glass hinges? I can't figure out how you connect / reconnect the push-rods if the are inside the fuselage[&o]
Have you done a mold for this or just glass the balsa fuselage?

Regards
Per

garys

Ed, is that tail really legal? Next think we know you'll have a removable crankase cover on your Q40's!

Ed Smith

Hi Per,

Thank you for the compliment. Yes I have glass elevator hinges. I use ball links on the elevator horns. To remove the tail I take the servo arm off the servo. This allows me to move the tail and pushrods back and up enough to pop the pushrods off. To ensure the ball sockets do not come off in flight I glue a small piece of balsa under the horn so there is no room for the ball socket to come off.

The fuselage is glass,This tail is balsa. This winter I will try and get the tail mold done.

Ed S

Ed Smith

Gary,

If Ray and I are starters at next years Nats, Then I would suggest that you do not bother to enter!!!

Ed S

P. Johnson

My Feedback: (1)

I figured "Storm" was a real name [sm=rolleyes.gif]...lol
Its the name i have gone by on-line for over 4 years now. Excellant pictures of your quickee. are you painting the wing or covering it? and if you are painting it,,,what do you use?
Storm (Peter)

Ed Smith

Hi Peter,

I use I.C.I. Automotive paint. On the quicky I used a single stage gloss. I like the I.C.I paint as the same hardener is used for the single stage paint, the primer and the clearcoat if doing the base coat/clear coat method. I would expect that other paint manufacturers have equivalent material.

Ed S

Stand

Connecting ball links: On my Q-500s I make a hatch directly under the ball link that is removeable to access the linkage there. My fuses are all balsa and when the hatch is in place the clearance is such that the linkage cannot come off, like Ed's balsa keeper.

I used to make an access panel on the side of the fuse, it was a pie shaped thing that followed the arc of the horn. But then I saw one of the Q500's with the bottom hatch and it works a lot better. It was one of those things where when you see the correct simple solution you wonder where your own head was when you came with your complex idea.

Stan

kane

Pete, send an e-mail to [email protected] if you used to race at rockford with TJ.

Dan Kane