Issues w/ converting a foam wing to nitro
03-06-2004, 12:49 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: , VA
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Issues w/ converting a foam wing to nitro
Well, I got quite a few hours of electric flight in on a XE2 Combat Wing (like a zagi). I am now entertaining a nitro mod for the next performance leap. I realize brushless/lipoly is the next logical next step, but I'm not fully convinced yet. It seems the Norvel engines can rival/exceed brushless performance for less money, and they are still fairly light in weight.
Anyway here are the issues:
1) CG - Since wings are very touchy with CG, what happens as the motor uses gas, and affects the CG? Does the tank need to be right on top of CG? What tank should I use?
2) Tailheavy - I will provide a rear cutout to get the nitro engine closer to the CG.
3) Noise - how loud is a small nitro engine? I have neighbors. I also have a .25 Savage MT that doesn't appear to bother anyone.
4) Launching. It is done now by tossing then hitting power. I will have to do a toss under power now. I imagine this could be dangerous. Can the engine be idling while I launch or do I need to launch under full power?
5) Can I expect 10 minute+ flights out of a .074 Norvel or equivalent?
6) Mess. It will not be as clean as electric. I never thought that nitro was that messy till I read about people's complaints. Does anyone feel the messy part is overblown?
Thanks.
Anyway here are the issues:
1) CG - Since wings are very touchy with CG, what happens as the motor uses gas, and affects the CG? Does the tank need to be right on top of CG? What tank should I use?
2) Tailheavy - I will provide a rear cutout to get the nitro engine closer to the CG.
3) Noise - how loud is a small nitro engine? I have neighbors. I also have a .25 Savage MT that doesn't appear to bother anyone.
4) Launching. It is done now by tossing then hitting power. I will have to do a toss under power now. I imagine this could be dangerous. Can the engine be idling while I launch or do I need to launch under full power?
5) Can I expect 10 minute+ flights out of a .074 Norvel or equivalent?
6) Mess. It will not be as clean as electric. I never thought that nitro was that messy till I read about people's complaints. Does anyone feel the messy part is overblown?
Thanks.
03-06-2004, 01:12 PM
#2
RE: Issues w/ converting a foam wing to nitro
It gets messy! But at the rear of the craft it will be minimized. These small engines are usually not muffled so are very annoying to hear. Hand launching with a moving prop is way to risky! A bungee launch set up would work though. Personaly I think you would be better off to go the better motor route and stay away from the noisy, messy, internal combustion powerplants. " But that is just my opinion I could be wrong."
03-07-2004, 10:24 AM
#3
My Feedback: (4)
RE: Issues w/ converting a foam wing to nitro
I'm a big fan of glow (fly smaller electrics too), but in this application I'd stick with electrics. The plane could be converted to glow, but the launch problem bothers me. (Is there a way to hold it on top and launch underhand? It would be a bit safer.)
To get 10 minutes out of the Norvel you'd probably need a 3 ounce tank. 2 ounces might do it if you throttle back quite a bit. As Jim said, the mess shouldn't be an issue, but the noise might be. The smaller glow engines tend to have a real annoying whine that bothers people. Even more than a .25 two stroke.
Best of luck,
Dennis-
To get 10 minutes out of the Norvel you'd probably need a 3 ounce tank. 2 ounces might do it if you throttle back quite a bit. As Jim said, the mess shouldn't be an issue, but the noise might be. The smaller glow engines tend to have a real annoying whine that bothers people. Even more than a .25 two stroke.
Best of luck,
Dennis-
03-07-2004, 12:45 PM
#4
Senior Member
RE: Issues w/ converting a foam wing to nitro
ORIGINAL: blueridge1
Well, I got quite a few hours of electric flight in on a XE2 Combat Wing (like a zagi). I am now entertaining a nitro mod for the next performance leap. I realize brushless/lipoly is the next logical next step, but I'm not fully convinced yet. It seems the Norvel engines can rival/exceed brushless performance for less money, and they are still fairly light in weight.
Anyway here are the issues:
1) CG - Since wings are very touchy with CG, what happens as the motor uses gas, and affects the CG? Does the tank need to be right on top of CG? What tank should I use?
2) Tailheavy - I will provide a rear cutout to get the nitro engine closer to the CG.
3) Noise - how loud is a small nitro engine? I have neighbors. I also have a .25 Savage MT that doesn't appear to bother anyone.
4) Launching. It is done now by tossing then hitting power. I will have to do a toss under power now. I imagine this could be dangerous. Can the engine be idling while I launch or do I need to launch under full power?
5) Can I expect 10 minute+ flights out of a .074 Norvel or equivalent?
6) Mess. It will not be as clean as electric. I never thought that nitro was that messy till I read about people's complaints. Does anyone feel the messy part is overblown?
Thanks.
Well, I got quite a few hours of electric flight in on a XE2 Combat Wing (like a zagi). I am now entertaining a nitro mod for the next performance leap. I realize brushless/lipoly is the next logical next step, but I'm not fully convinced yet. It seems the Norvel engines can rival/exceed brushless performance for less money, and they are still fairly light in weight.
Anyway here are the issues:
1) CG - Since wings are very touchy with CG, what happens as the motor uses gas, and affects the CG? Does the tank need to be right on top of CG? What tank should I use?
2) Tailheavy - I will provide a rear cutout to get the nitro engine closer to the CG.
3) Noise - how loud is a small nitro engine? I have neighbors. I also have a .25 Savage MT that doesn't appear to bother anyone.
4) Launching. It is done now by tossing then hitting power. I will have to do a toss under power now. I imagine this could be dangerous. Can the engine be idling while I launch or do I need to launch under full power?
5) Can I expect 10 minute+ flights out of a .074 Norvel or equivalent?
6) Mess. It will not be as clean as electric. I never thought that nitro was that messy till I read about people's complaints. Does anyone feel the messy part is overblown?
Thanks.
Yes. glow motors DO provide more performance in the same model when the electric batteries are removed. They can be MORE exciting so a long flight time just might wear you out!
Putting the tank on the c.g. can't be bad.
You'd be surprised how long a 2 oz. tank will run on the .074. Work your way up to larger as you feel.
Noise should be high-pitched and possibly annoying. If there's someone to complain, they probably will. Chose your flying area appropriately.
Launching should be OK using the normal ZAGI™ technique. I launch large propped pusher electrics without any problems.
And on my ZAGI™ 400X I have a small finger hole under the nose to get a little effort into the toss.
Underhand can be done, but the plane won't be as instantly flyable, and the problem with the prop exists anyway.
The messy part is part of the experience.
03-07-2004, 07:20 PM
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: , VA
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Issues w/ converting a foam wing to nitro
Thanks for the responses so far. Seems I have two issues. Potentially dangerous launches and noise. As far as the launches, there are a few different styles for WOT throttle launches. One way is to face the opposite way, hold the wing by the nose and backstroke it over your head. I'm personally not a fan of this. It just seems a gust could come along and give you a haircut. The other route is grabbing the wing on one side and flinging it. This one seems safer. Then there's the pizza toss, which I never liked.
The noise issue bothers me the most. If the small nitros are that loud, I'm probably in trouble. I guess I'm going to stick with the electric route. Don't get me wrong, I see all the advantages to electric, but sometimes I get to thinking about nitro after looking at these high priced esc's, brushless motors, lipoly batteries, and chargers. One can drop 300-400 on the ultimate electric upgrade; then there's the peppy little Norvel for 50-60 bucks. It will make you wonder sometimes.
The noise issue bothers me the most. If the small nitros are that loud, I'm probably in trouble. I guess I'm going to stick with the electric route. Don't get me wrong, I see all the advantages to electric, but sometimes I get to thinking about nitro after looking at these high priced esc's, brushless motors, lipoly batteries, and chargers. One can drop 300-400 on the ultimate electric upgrade; then there's the peppy little Norvel for 50-60 bucks. It will make you wonder sometimes.
