supertib

Guys it goes both ways...... I see the guys who buy the budget $199.00 Truggy bragging it up how it is just as good or even better then a top of the line Mugen or X-Ray....the hate goes both ways.... The guys who can't afford the good stuff knock the good stuff just as much as the guys with the good stuff knock the cheap stuff.....

All I will say is till you own the good stuff you don't jack about it......

case and pouint..I started racing 1/12th pan car this year with a big group of buddies.... to keep cost low we decided to get the Novak Havok 13.5 pro BL system.....its a decent little unit that does its job.... However after a few weeks of racing we realized how limited the budget Havok system was.... So we stpped up to the top of the line Tekin RS 13.5 system....OMFG what a difference, it was like night and day...the Tekin absolutely blows the Novak out of the water, and now looking back I seriously regret wasting $150.00 on the Novak, next to the Tekin its garbage....... I wish I would have just listened to the experienced racers and bought the Tekin right off the bat.... now I wasted an extra $150.00 on a setup that I can't even use........ So moral of the story is sometimes its better to take advice from the experienced guys and not get all pissy when what they tell you isn't what you want to hear.....

savagecommander

so lets hear it then- settle the score. what was the difference? break it down all the way for me. if paying the extra money was night and day, then you should be able to bring some facts up..... I'm listening....

yakfish

My Feedback: (27)

Wow what a thread!
There are alot of different sides to the issues brought up here. Yes there wil always be the jerks who spend a fortune on their stuff and then look down on you for have somethingcheaper and "not as good". then you have the people who only buy cheap crap and then bash people who have spend money on more expensive cars/truck and say their cheapies are just as good or better when they really have no idea what they are talking about. then there are the poeple who buy stuff on the lower end because that is what they can afford and that is fine but some of these folk are jelous of those people how can afford the higher end eqipment and they complain about them showing off their expensive rigs and being jerks. there are many side to this and many different people. just remember this is just a hobby! if you want to buy higher end stuff and not the cheap crap then get your stuff used! that is what I do and I don't spend much on my stuff but most of it is pretty nice IMO.

proanti1

My Feedback: (2)

Hobby shops do not have a really high markup, they never have. Its the manufacturers that jack up the retail pack price Thunderpower (or whoever) buys from china and slaps a sticker on their packs. You think they are cheap on ebay? Hell... They get it for close to nothing, probably a little above the production cost of a pack (less than $5) then after adding a plug and sticker, jack the price up to $120/pack. Of course these "superior" packs come off a different production line with a bit better quality control, but they still cost about the same to make. My hobby shop carries both... overpriced packs... and ebay packs. They seem to sell out of the ebay packs almost instantly.

But yes, back to the original post. I spend most of my time at the local carpet track... I run an old ass associated rc10lss in stock class. There are people there that run in mod and unlimited with these cars that look like god chizzeled the thing out of diamonds himself. They see my piece of crap and kind of chuckle to themselves, then proceed to try to convince me to buy a $500 piece of carbon fiber with some aluminum stuck to it. It almost amuses me how these guys think they are so much better because their car wasn't made 15 years ago. I save my money for my planes... so I can be a hypocrite and compare one of my saitos to the OS LA in someone trainer.

Access

Yeah let me guess, one has an 'N' and the other has a 'T' on it. That's about it. Seriously that post sounded like just another derivation of reverse post-purchase 'gear envy'. It's like the golfer who is convinced his new set of clubs makes him a better player. He becomes convinced of this after he buys the new clubs, b'cos he has to justify his purchase. In the back of his head he has a haunting feeling that maybe he wasted his money on an expensive new set of clubs, so his conscious mind has to counter this as to not hurt his own self-esteem and self-judgement.

My dad often tells me a story of how he once visited an old family with a single TV many years ago. This was back in the days of tube TVs and they had a single TV that only showed a black and white picture. The family was constantly ranting about how all the neighbors had color and they had to live with this poor black and white TV b'cos they couldn't afford anything better. My dad said after inspecting the TV for a few seconds, he turned a knob and suddenly the picture on their TV became color. Afterwards they were awed, they thought he was some kind of magician who had magically transformed their 'black and white' TV to a color one. They would not listen to his explanation that they had a color TV all along, just that somehow the color saturation had been turned all the way down.

Another thing to not forget about in these cases is the 'placebo effect'. A lot of racing is 'in your head', ie. mental. Mental preperation, mental awareness, and mental aptitudes like hand-eye coordination, sense of timing, practice, 'muscle memory', etc. Self-confidence has an effect on most or all of these things, and for many people, a jump in self-confidence will follow a major purchase. It's part of the consumer mentality that is sold to us in all those different forms of media every day. While the purchase may have improved self-confidence in this way, in reality, there are better and more cost-efficient ways to boost one's self-confidence.

supertib

Here you guys go assuming again.... Tou honestly think that I would say it was a night and day difference if it wasn't... You honestly beleive a $150.00 Novak havok is the same as a $300.00 Tekin RS the only difference is the lettering on the case LOL ! Its almost like your calling me stupid to be honest here !

Assume whatever you want, but there is a reason why the Mugen's and tekin's cost more then the Novak's and Duratrax ...its not just all in our head like some of you guys wish to think... Once again I will say until you yourself run a budget rig next to a top level rig you don't know what your talking about...making assumptions on this matter just doesn't cut it.....

the Novak system is very mild with very limited tuning options...the brakes on the system suck, even at full settings the brakes and drag brakes are terrible..... The Tekin system is fully tunable thru a laptop, the brakes are phenomenal and adjustable in dozens of different ways..... The speed of the two sytems is like night and day, a 13.5 turn Tekin will absolutely blow the doors off the Novak system..Hell my 13.5 turn Tekin will blow the doors off a Novak 10.5 systems in speed and power...it is like night and day...As well to back this up , after a 8 minute race the Novak uses 1900 mah on full settings, the Tekin will use up to 3200 mah ...That is a 50% increase in useage, and the performance difference feels about a 50% increase..... As i say it is like night and day............ Also to back this up..with my Novak I peaked at 45 laps in 8 minutes, first time out with the Tekin tuned I ran 47 laps...... I would have run more but my car was soo much torquier and faster that i made some critical mistakes as I misjudged the speed in places......... I wasted $150.00 on a Havok Pro plain and simple...I wish I would have listened and bought the tekin right off the bat......

Now I am not dumping on anyone for running a budget rig,I am happy to see anyone enjoy the hobby at any level... But the facts are that in many cases the higher end gear's price is warranted by what your getting.....Don't trash on the guys who understand this and would rather invest their money on a quality machine....Till you yourself step up and buy a top quality rig you really can't say your budget rigs are just as good or better.... Unfortunately as I say the trash talk goes both ways...

Access

Okay sure, let's just say it does and let me show you where this is leading. Let's go back one post and examine the original logic for running that way.

The original intent as stated was to keep costs down by using the havoc. Now if everyone used the same system, then you keep costs down and you stop the 'equipment wars' that can result in runaway costs. I'd say whether one system is better than the other is irrelevant in your guys' cases. You should've just all kept using the havocs, learned the havoc, learned to love it, dealt with whatever insufficiencies it had by getting more skilled in your racing. After all you are all just a 'big group of buddies'. The reason for upgrading is self-defeating. Do you really want to be the guy who shows up at a stock car race with a souped-up formula one racer and then wins solely on the account of having the best gear? Your racing gets no better this way, in fact the racer who depends on his gear to win is a bad racer. Not to mention, next year some new hot gear item will come out and let's say it gives another advantage over the current Tekin or such. Does everyone run out and buy that new piece of gear? Not if the original intent is to keep costs down.

The key to understanding this is that either way you go wrong. We may disagree that the gear makes a huge difference, but even if it does make a huge difference, you are wrong to have your whole group buy the better gear if you want everyone to be on the same level and if you want to keep down costs. It's a bad practice. Not to mention a moral hazard.

This is one of the ways that ROAR went wrong, once upon a time they had a stock class that was based around the mabuchi 540, a silvercan motor that lasted a long time, only needing to be replaced once every few months and was very inexpensive. Then ROAR made a pact with a select group of motor manufacturers, they started redefining 'stock' every year and the 'arms race' that followed turned stock racing from something that was cheap, inexpensive, low-maintainance, a beginner's class and fun, into an expensive affair that few club racers cared to engage in anymore. Many clubs suffered from the absence of a true beginner's class, and so on.

And this last post was all IMO, if you don't agree don't take it personally please. Just my thoughts and analysis of the subject.

CB 1

I have not had time to read this whole chat, But if you compare this to real cars, You look how Toyota cars have had a problom. i think that they are great cars and they run for ever. That is only one problem they have had in decades probably. If you look at American cars, Ford has almost gone bankrupt and other American car manufacturers have had problems. So u might have the most expensive car, But its not only about performance. It is also how well you race. There is NO point in throwing away a couple thousand dollars into a car you cant even control or know how to race well.

supertib

I find the Tekin soo much more fun to drive... I also love the Hotwire tuning capabilities it has.....I mean its really neat stuff... Not only is it faster and stronger it is also more entertaining to drive and much more interesting to play with...... me and my buddies do race at at a club, so either way we are running against guys with tekin's..... we just didn't realize there could be that much difference between BL setups...honestly we asked a few racers and they told us to buy the tekins or LRPs , however we also got the advice that the Novak was just as good for half the price, we were made to feel we would be wasting our money buying the Tekin...... Honestly tho the racers gave us the proper advice, sure it would have costed more, but right now every single one of us wished we bought the tekin right off the bat...as we are all going to be running one in the end anyways..... A Sport ESC motor combo is not competitive with the top level gear , yes a better driver can make up for it, but there is a pretty big advantage to overcome IMO....If I am paying money to go racing I am going to try my hardest, which includes buying the best gear I can afford...yes it costs more to do this way, but the better gear will make you faster in many cases( of course within limits ) ....

jaken0313

all i have to say is dont get mad when i pass your xrays or high dollar buggies with my ofna ultra lx-1. you may have a billion dollar jet, but if billy bob thorton's the pilot, you aren't winning many wars, well, unless its south korea or france or something like that. hey, do you smell doughnuts?

Redvanmafia

this guy is totaly right, but in the end the guy who spent more is usually a little faster a little stronger and lasts a little longer therefore can brag about it lol, you get what you pay for 99% of the time but 2000$ savages and t-maxxs are just for braging rights you can laugh at thoes guys when they go to sell it and its worth 450$

magnus213

Isn't this the golden rule of R/C?

If you're not having fun, you're doing something wrong.

If someone else you know is also into R/C, bring them up. Help them have fun. If they're buying something that's low-quality or not really good for their application, be a friend and constructively point them in the right direction.

This is our hobby, right? And the goal of a hobby, at least in my eyes, is to help me enjoy my (very little) free time. So enjoy it!

supertib

Just for the record I don't look down on anyone who chooses to run lower cost equipment..... it is what it is, not everybody has the desire or need to go purchase the high end gear... Some people only get time to run 1 or 2 gallons per season anyways, so spending big bucks doesn't make much sense.......I will burn up to 20 gallons per season, so I make my choices accordingly....And I have no doubt that a superior driver can beat me with some really low end gear...However I have been racing for several years now at both club and national events and I have yet to see any dominating drivers making any waves with budget equipment... I have never seen a OFNA LX or XTM in any Pro mains anywhere, or even winning at a Sportsman level for that matter.....Not saying it can't happen, but its so rare it has yet to be seen by myself or anyone i know who races......So I must appologize if i seem skeptical that someone with a RTR OFNA is going to run circles around me and my Mugen......

Access

Okay let me put the question to you this way. If you could 'cheat' in a race would you do it? Let's say the guy who ran the track took bribes. For $10. on the main you could start your car a fourth of a lap in front of the other cars. For $50. in the main you could start your car half a lap in front of the other cars. Would you pay the $10.? The $50.? If your buddy paid the $50. and you didn't, would that make him any better of a racer than you? Or worse? If someone else paid the $50. and still lost, would that make him an idiot? Or not? Or worse than an idiot?

This is how I understand the example of paying for an advantage. Whether that advantage is real or perceived. And in many hobbies, my finding is that the more you pay, the less 'real' you get and the more 'perceived' you get (back to diminishing returns). It would seem to me that an artificial advantage does not make you into a better racer. If anything it makes you into a worse racer as you start to rely on that artificial advantage instead of superior skill to win.

johndavis

this whole post has been about who has the most money.     i was at the track practicing   the track champion was there  has the top of the line everything.  we raced  he beat me  by 3/4 lap.  i thought my buggy was so much slower.  we traded  i drove his losi upgraded to the max  he drove my ofna lx 1.  and guess what he still beat me 3/4 track.    he has drove rc's most of his life.  his buggy was worth  1500.00+  mine 300.00   most races are won on skill and experience.ive raced only 4 months  he raced for many years.  so paying for top of the line doesent gurantee a win.his advice to me was to practice  and race, not to give up   keep trying and i will get better and be more competive as my experience level goes up.

plasmaedge

Think about real cars.

I-fly-any-and-all

My Feedback: (1)

exactly! I might fly planes instead of rc land vehicles, but I will admit most of my stuff is a little shabby looking but is structurally sound and I fly what I can afford.
If I crash and its repairable, I fix it. If a spot needs patching, I patch it even if the new material isn't the exact color.

plasmaedge

Haha mate nice one.

Ive got one of those hobbyking 2.4s as well and they are just awesome. Will get out of sight easy and keep on going.

Ive got it hooked up yo my new df-03 and it works just as good as futabas and stuff lyk that.




HAHA my mate ordered a tt-01 and he needed a radio to use it with,(he knows nothing about rc, had to get me to build it for him) and i reccomended that he got the hobbyknig but he was lyk na ima get this 200 buk radio from futaba cus its good as. "look it says its 2.4ghz and it comes with servos".OMG i dnt care i got a beter radio for less so haha sucker.


Heres ma radio

sheograth

The fact remains that you generally get what you pay for. There's a lot if cheap junk in this hobby, too much if you ask me. I'm not a racer so I'm coming from a builder/collector/basher standpoint. Since I enjoy building and working on stuff, I really appreciate the high quality stuff made with high end materials and craftsmanship.

plasmaedge

Look at this. Redcat relabels hobbyking stuff. Heres the relabeled hobbyking radio from redcat!!

SyCo_VeNoM

Tell him to get the Eurgle 2.4ghz 3channel its 2X more than the Hobbyking radio but has a buttload of settings and can hold 8 models, and the RX's cost $8
Its not as good as a $200+ doller radio with telemetry and sensor data but hell for $50 its a great deal, and blows those $100 traxxas 2.4ghz tq2's away

plasmaedge

Im not trying to be rude so please dont get angry at me but my freind has driven my car and i have driven his and there is no differenc in performance.

When i reccomended that he bought the hobbyking radio he just went like na ima buy this because the name is well known and the price is high so it will be good!!

That is the thing that gets people angry.

He thinks that just because he can afford the GOOD stuff we all can too.

He once said to me is come on just buy it its ONLY 40 buks!!

Like i have 40 buks to just spend!!

plasmaedge

Just too late i woulda but this was about 2 months ago!!!

Btw have u seen ma df-03 painted yet??

SyCo_VeNoM

yup I commented in your thread the day you put up pics :P

plasmaedge

kewl.