jermpool

When I started this hobby I had to build my first car. Now if you can find a kit its more expensive than a RTR after you buy all the electronics.
With all the rtrs out there people just buy them and can't repair them when they break. In turn you are getting hobbiest that realy arent hobbiest. They just bought a RC car. I personaly would love to see more kits on the market. Why cant they just throw all of thier electronics in a kit and sale it for 20 or 30 bucks less than the rtr.
Anybody else feel this way?

nitrosportsandrunner

i dont understand why kits cost more.
as far as the people who buy an RTR and cant repair them, i think that just means this is not the hobby for them. i started with RTR's, and enjoyed figuring out how to fix them when they broke! thats part of the joy, learning how they go together and how they work.
if there were no RTR's, then there would be lots of people who would never give the hobby a try.
when i started, i had no idea what servo, esc, battery, engine and other ratings meant. so buying the right parts to finish a kit would have been a daunting task!
some companies are offering BND, which is nice if you already have a high quality 2.4ghz radio.

Access

The other side of this is barriers to entry in the hobby. In the days before RTRs, one had to be able to build a kit to join the hobby. Building a kit was not something anyone or everyone could do. You had to be able to read. You had to be able to manipulate small parts. You had to have some basic mechanical aptitude. With RTRs you eliminated one of the barriers to entering the hobby. You also created a class of people in the hobby who cannot due their own repairs, which helps local hobby shops compete with online stores and stay in business.

The price inversion was a result of volume production. In truth, relatively few people actually want kits anymore. You have a few people online who are pretty vocal about kits, but this alone generally isn't enough to sustain the market for kits as a whole. Yes I would personally prefer more kits or baring that more pre-built rollers (no electronics). Especially just entry-level kits rather than kits aimed at pro racing. But support just isn't there, retail shops won't stock them, manufacturers just won't make them, etc. The kit builder just expects too much and there just aren't enough of them out there.

Kits also cost more on the modern market b'cos of the supply / retail chain. A kit sits on the shelf longer, so the markup ends up being more.

nitrosportsandrunner

i am a RTR man, but now that i have some experience under my belt i would buy a kit(if they werent more costly.)
honestly tho, i have bought many used RC's that might as well have been a kit by the time i rebuilt tranny, replaced ball bearings and installed my own motor and electronics. im sure im not the only one who has done that.

proanti1

My Feedback: (2)

RTR opens a lot of people up to the hobby, I personally have only bought a few RTR's brand new... everything else has been in kit form or acquired used. Kits generally cost close to the price of RTR's because demand for them is not that high... and people will pay it.

SyCo_VeNoM

I've got RTR's and kits

And the reason the kits cost more than the RTRs is alot of kits come with upgrades that the RTR versions don't, along with the lower revenue they need to make up for.
My Jammin .5 crt kit came with alum threaded shocks where the RTR had plastic, it also had a different chassis plate and a whole pile of parts, few sets of screws, along with spare parts included as well, where the RTR had a cheap AM radio, and some cheap servos, and a cheap engine. I think it was only $5-10 cheaper than the RTR version, but the bonuses that came with it IMO far outdone the RTR.

But then theres RTRs which I find superior to kits like the Savage X 4.6. The RTR comes with a better engine and all the servos, electronics, roto start and what ever else is needed for like $50 more than the kit which comes with a inferior engine.

yakfish

My Feedback: (27)

Why do people care if someone else is a "true hobbist"?

My first Rc was an rtr and when it was all said and done I could tear it down and put it back together with my eyes closed.

SyCo_VeNoM

agree same here, lets face it theres always people with superiority complex's in the hobby like the ones that say nitros suck, brushed motors suck, NiMh's suck, etc(the list can go on)... they try and push what they love off as what everyone should love, and anything under that level is crap(this elitism happens alot on the electric offroad forum)

IMO the thing ppl say about kits meaning you can repair your own truck is pretty crappy reason. Not bashing kit lovers I own 2 and this is just how I see it. (personally I'd prefer a RC with all the parts not assembled seeing I like working on them more than driving.)
My 1st 3-4 were used RTRs within a week of owning each I stopped even looking at the diagrams for anything other than part #'s for replacements.

1st kit was a tamiya I didn't even read the instructions just opened to the exploded view and went off the pic, seeing I found the instructions oddly worded.
Only thing with a Kit is if you can build one you are probably able to repair it seeing you had the skill to put it together, BUT you can proably also repair a RTR just as easy.
If you can't build a kit chances are you will be spending alot of money at the LHS getting your vehicle repaired.
But like I said thats my opinion.

Shabbernigdo

my first Nitro rc was a kit . kyosho inferno 10.  it came in a box in like a thousand pices but it was fun puttin it togeathere and i learned a lot  on how it worked. Personally ide rather buy kits because i think i could do a better job of assemblying them then the factory and i just like tinkerin on them.

quietnas1

I remember my 1st TUB RC10GT kit. Came with no engine and electronics. Bought an OS .12, starter box, electronics, glow starter, RPM tools, T wrench, and fuel. When all was said and done I ended up spending 600 bucks. This was back in 1994.

I prefer RTR plus I know I will tear it down sooner or later.

Redvanmafia

There will always be this goofy discussion, with people calling other people not true hobbyist's, its so ridiculous. If you cant put a small 200 peice kit together you probably cant do alot of things. RC is a simple hobby doesnt matter how hard some of you make it out to be, with these really hard kits, some people get so ingulfed they forget that any 8yr old kid with a computer and a little bit of dads money can be a master at R/C,

sheograth

As far as I'm concerned, the more options the better. The more ways people can get interested in the hobby, the better. Personally I prefer kits, but RTR has it's place.

From time to time help my friend out at the hobby store he owns, and we've seen lots of people join the hobby after buying an RTR. Kits can be intimidating to first time users, so having an RTR option definitely helps the hobby grow.

Access

You get this in any hobby today (sadly). If you don't have an electronic gun then you're not a true paintballer. If your bike doesn't have rear shocks then you are not a true mountain biker. If you haven't ever built a kit you're not a true RC'er. If you fly EDFs and not turbines then you're not a real flier. If you're not in the AMA then you're not a real flyer. If your racing club isn't ROAR-supported then it's not a real racing club. And don't even get me started about the disrespect park flyers get. If your camera body isn't this or that you're not a true photographer. It goes _on_ and _on_, every hobby I've ever been involved with, you have those types of people. It's sad really.

40% of the people in this nation cannot read english beyond an eighth grade level. Expecting them to be able to put together a kit is just unfair.

qoisdhc oqina

My Feedback: (-1)

40% of people in this nation aren't american. I do think rtr's are good for the hobby.I started with an rtr, but have learned it and others quite well,and now a kit would be no problem.If i started with a kit, it would've been way harder, i think, and i might not have stayed in the hobby.

Shenanigans

My Feedback: (12)

I started with a kit...Tamiya Lunch Box....I built 3 after that with the last my old b4.  At this point I probably wont buy anymore kits for the simple fact that Iv learned so many other ways to upgrade, add, and replace stock parts that the initial build isnt as intriguing anymore.  I do think its a good idea for first timers to build one, but not everyone agrees...to each his own.

RTR's opened the door for too many people to join the fun of rc's for the manufactureres to turn their backs on them.  With as many different manufacturers today of not only cars/trucks, but aftermarket parts, engines, mods, components, and anything else I missed...if you really enjoy the "build" you can customize your own ride off of ebay.....I think that would be much more satisfying than a kit.

rc person 577

i would love to see more kits on the market. i come from airplanes so building an airplane takes 60hr+ (counted) depending on the kit many take longer. building a car takes around 10-12 hrs (never done but from what people told me.)i have an RTR but want a kit. i guess what i am saying is that if you run your rtr long enough, you will learn. i would think that a kit should be less expensive, but they do have upgrades. as far as learning, you will learn more from building an airplane then  from a RTF but as for cars, you will learn the same about the car from rtr or a kit it might just take longer. i think rtr's should be for the entry level cars and most of the ore adanced ones a kit.

this is just my opinion

sheograth

My first post didn't quite articulate what I wanted to say. I vastly prefer kits, I get many more hours of enjoyment out of them. I have no problem with RTRs existing, as long as kits are ALSO offered. Too many companies are only offering RTRs, I'd like to see more kit versions.

mechanizeddeath

Well, I got started in this hobby the same way as many other people my age. With a Tamiya Brat kit, Futaba AM radio, 15 minute timed charger, and a low capacity NiCd.

Thing is, I did this in 2007, not 1987. Building a kit wasn't easy, I made some mistakes and learned a lot. But I do think for me personally, it was a good thing.

On the other hand, whenever I'm down at the LHS, I'll see half a dozen kids coming in with broken RTRs. It makes me sad that they don't have the mechanical aptitude to work on them. Half the time it's something simple and obvious, like a broken suspension arm or shock top. I realize transmission problems can be a bit mysterious, but once you open it up and look at the mesh, you realize it isn't running on magic. [&:]

suburban_hooligan

im stubborn as hell and overly passionate about this subject to the point of being more than willing to bare knuckle box to a knockout, and maybe even fight dirty. so lets just say i more than strongly dislike them and the direction they have taken the hobby in the past 10 years. and sense im sick of arguing over this subjectthat's all im going to say. this is my one and only post in this thread.

MTboy

Really if you look at it RTR's saved this hobby. With kits the only ones able to do them when starting out were people around clubs or a LHS that would be willing to help out. Since RTR's your seeing more clubs and tracks opening as before with kits it was only friends of friends that had the help to put a kit together.
For me, if I had to start with a kit and not having anyone around to show me and tell me what all I needed to make it run I would have got nowhere. Thanks to RTR's I was able to get out and drive and when something broke fix it since I already seen how it worked before it broke. Even my first I had trouble getting it to run. took me two days to figure out that the stock setting on the HSN was set crazy and wouldn't allow the savage to start.

john01374

I think RTR's are good and bad for the hobby and here's my reasoning.

Pros
1) RTR's allow anyone and everyone access to hobby grade RC cars. If you can put in batteries you can run an RC car. Most people today are either too busy or just too lazy to sit and spend a couple days or longer on a build.

2) RTR's keep the RC departments at LHS's busy with repairs. A lot of the people buying RTR again don't have the time, skill or are just plain too lazy to fix the car when it breaks. I repair RC's locally for friends and sometime referrals and you would be shocked at some of the simply stuff that I'm asked to repair. Even stuff as simple as changing the oil in the shocks or oiling bearings.


Cons

1) RTR's ultimately cost most. The cost of the car/truck is usually more due to the kit including all the electronics and some (Traxxas) even come with batteries and a charger. You also end up spending more having someone else fix your car and around here hobby shop labor rates are $50+ per hr.

2) RTR's are taking away the knowledge people gain from building the kit themselves leading to the higher ownership cost listed above.

3) This is personal opinion. You miss out on the joy of assembling the kits yourself and the satisfaction of knowing you made it run.

It's no secret to anyone on these boards that I'm a kit fanatic and i would be perfectly happy if there was no such thing as RTR. I liked the days when you had to build it yourself or do without. Todays world is filled with people that need instant satisfaction. They need everything NOW and don't want to take the time to learn how to do anything new but that's a conversation for a different day....

McWolf_101

In will soon be getting into hobby grade RC myself but I've had experience with it before, and in all honestly, before I did ANYTHING with the RTR vehicle, I took it apart completely. In doing so, I was able to become acquainted with everything and know where everything was supposed to be in relation to everything else. After doing this, I put it all together again, and then performed the necessary procedures to get it up and running so that my friend and I could enjoy it. He has since purchased another RTR vehicle, and has done the same thing. I can also honestly say that I am not a big fan of manuals except to search for part numbers, so I believe my route is good for ME. However, everyone is not like me, and will not patient enough to take it apart before running it because they're just so excited to have a new vehicle, especially if that someone is a youngster. At the end of the day, whether you purchase a kit or an RTR, you still have to learn about it and spend extra money on it. Buy what you want, do what you have to do, and HAVEFUN.

ross93

i think rtr are great i got first hobby car in 6th grade when the rtr stampede just came out. building the whole car was just to much off a hard task. but fixing parts that broke was doable. sold all my rc stuff and just bought my friends old stampede 3 of the 4 shocks were put together differently  and a buch of othere stuff wrong ahah, he was a rtr exept for 2 cars and there were both a fail. rtr should come with mechanical speed controls and normal transmiters so new drivers could improve and not go 87mph out of the box

what i dont like now is everything is brushless that goes 3 million mph in a rtr!!!! if i wanted to race and win i would be forced to get a brushless like the rest of them. there is a talent to drive and tune gas cars. there was a talent to drive electric casue they were slower and more about set up and driving and being smooth. now its gone. gun it and try to keep it somewhat on the track.

a huge improvement is more cars come with allen screws it was kindof anoying to buy screw kits
and waterproof i would love to have a waterproof electronics
sorry i kinda ranted

Nitro Fumes

When I started it was only kits too. I still prefer kits. And I've never done an RTR. But I guess plenty of people can't build or even fix their cars. Frankly I don't know how anyone can be in this hobby if they can't turn wrenches. But RTR's sell and make money for the manufacturers and the hobby shops that charge people to fix their cars.

SyCo_VeNoM

whoa 10-12 hrs for a car kit?
sheesh I knocked my 2 out in under 4 hours each, and that included doing modifications that I had to hand make parts for as I was going. Honestly a good chunk of the time was looking for a damn screw I dropped, and couldn't find.


I have a plane kit that I am dragging on. Only reason that is taking forever is cause I'm having issues figuring out the instructions seeing they don't line up with what was in the kit. Like the parts trees in the kit are laid out differently than the pictures in the manual type stuff.