Letsroll...

I’ve been tinkering with RC for years, but I’m just coming into the world of airplanes. I’ve had several drones, Air 3 currently. But I know that’s nowhere anything like airplanes. Just bought and assembled the apprentice STS. I just spent four hours on the real flight evolution SIM. It is a blast I love it!
But I haven’t flown the real plane yet. Just wanted to get some opinions on how close the simulator is to real flight? At first I was pretty terrible, but I seem to get the hang of it fairly quick, I still have a lot to work on, but I’ve mainly been staying in expert mode staying away from safe. As I think it might create some bad habits, but I will definitely use it on the real plane at take off landings especially an emergency. Until I get very comfortable.
thanks in advance

if a moderator can move this to the correct form, I would appreciate it.

icharus

The Sim is helpful in familerize yourself with the transmitter and fight characteristics of a planes, but is does not help you set up your plane or the pucker effect you will get the first time you maiden your expensive toy. My advice is to join a local RC club where there is 100's of combined years experience available, your fellow members will be more than happy to assist setting up your plane and give you lessons on how to fly in the field, I suggest a high wing plane with dihedral in the wing some inexpensive foamy a slow stick or similar plane to start with, once you learn how to fly you will grow out of that plane and go for something faster and more maneuverable, so start clearing out space in your garage you will need it trust me you will become addicted, and way more fun than those boring drones.

Good luck happy landings.

Letsroll...

Thanks for the advice, yes, I ended up buying the apprentice. STS. It seemed like it was highly favorable as a trainer. Yes I’ve had several drones and they are great for photography, but easy for me to lose interest in them. Actually just acquired the Air 3 after a break for a couple years. But I picked up this apprentice and I haven’t even touched the drone after the one flight. All my attention has been on this plane and the flight simulator. That flight simulator is a blast but I’m looking forward to making my maiden flight this weekend maybe depending on the weather. I did contact the nearest club but it’s a 42 minute drive for me one way. I’m gonna call a couple airports today and see if I can find one closer but if not, I will just make the drive guy that I spoke to seem very cool.

tedsander

I've used RF since the early G3 days (decades), and flown for real for even more decades. I encourage my beginners, as a club instructor, to use it if they can (some can't afford, etc.).

It does an excellent job of replicating the behavior of the aircraft. So much so, that I have modified similar default planes to exactly match my real (dimensions, alignments, weights, etc.) - and even the "bad" characteristics of the real become apparent. I can then modify the sim plane to correct any issues, and then have successfully modified the real the same way - and it resolves the issue. You won't have to do that, if using the same real model as the one in the sim, of course. But it is that accurate.

ALL sims are poor at fully replicating the flying experience - a small flat monitor just can't replicate a real world giant field of view. Virtual Reality gets somewhat closer, but RF is still a bit primitive at that (It works, but is not sharp, slow frame rates, etc.) So the first time you fly for real, the ability to see everything (especially the ground!) all the time, will be disconcerting. As will learning how to fly in relation to runways, landmarks, etc. Expect a moderate amount of additional learning when you fly for real. You will not be making perfect landings the first few/several flights. If used correctly, you won't crash - just won't be "elegant". And there is that "pucker factor" knowing a real crash might be very bad.

It is FANTASTIC for teaching "muscle memory" and apparent control reversal (when right/left seem reversed when the plane is coming at you). It comes into its own if you practice, practice, practice. The end goal: NEVER crash, never overcontrol and have to correct. Your hands just know what to do in any aircraft attitude/direction.
Pick a flying field, and pick a plane in the sim. Always use the same for your practice sessions. Work on perfect maneuvers - turns round, no gain/loss of altitude in turns, straight and level flight. Use of the rudder. Do circles, horizontal figure 8's, yes, even loops and rolls (gotta have fun amid the boring repetition). Yes practice takeoffs and landings a lot, even if the real world will be different. Vary the wind speeds and gusts to learn how to adjust for them. Cut your throttle at a random spot in the sky, and try to glide to a good landing (somewhere - back to the field, if you can). Do it 15 min to 1/2 hr per day.

While individuals vary a lot in how fast they learn to fly, those that were disciplined to practice in the sim fly for real far faster than those that don't. I 've had many that put in the serious sim time that solo in as little as 3 flights, And for some, that is only because I don't believe that a "new guy" can be accomplished so quickly - so I make them go up a time or two extra to make sure. Those without the sim, can take months, especially if they can't get out to fly more than once a week.

rgburrill

I have a problem with Real Flight airplanes in that it's very hard to see them when they get some distance away. I've even tried hooking up to my TV screen instead of my laptop. It works great for helicopters, though. Learning to do a nose in hover with a heli on Real Flight really makes flying a model a lot easier.

tedsander

It does have a few options to try and overcome that issue. "Keep ground in view", "Autozoom" or a Gadget for picture-in-picture that shows the plane and current attitude no matter the distance. Flying a big plane, and/or keeping it in close also helps. But none are perfect - the problem of replicating the whole visual world on a small patch of screen....one either sees pretty much just the plane well most of the time, but nothing of the world around it - or more of the world, but the plane in relation can get tiny....

Letsroll...

Wow thanks for all of the great advice! I am trying to put in the work to avoid a lot of crashes even tho I know it’s inevitable. Be honest with you when I first started, it was more challenging than what I anticipated but I seem to pick it up fairly quick and my hand movements are getting more fluid, in that I do it without thinking on some of it. But a few times early on, I would get disoriented and was really moving at the sticks, the gentleman at the club already gave me a tip and told me small movements, so I had to keep that in mind, and it does help. Specially when coming in for a landing it seem that was the hardest part was getting lined up , but I’m much better at it now at least on the simulator and trying to make those very controlled flights. Being real structured is what I figured was key. I started doing that after I played around with some rolls and really getting crazy just to see if I could pull out of it. But I think that would teach me the wrong things. I spent about four hours on it last night. My first attempt. And I’m not a person that likes video games at all but this is relatable to real life so it’s very interesting to me. Thanks for all the input.

Letsroll...

I was anticipating using the safe mode, at least on the first flight or two in intermediate as quick as I could. I was going to get up some good altitude and flip it off. Any safe features to get a feel of the plane a high. Do you recommend this?
i also opted for the GPS module, but not the landing assist sensor. I guess the GPS can create a virtual fence to avoid a fly away and even Auto land if you get it set up correctly which I intend to. But that’s not gonna teach me much. Definitely wanted to be hands-on as much as possible.

Lee Taylor

I learned to fly R/C planes at the field. Now days I use a simulator to keep in practice. I personally think a person is 1000% better off owning and using a sim then not

Letsroll...

I took her for a maiden today but I probably should have waited. When I ask google it stated a 7mph wind and the next several days showing higher wind speeds. The area I found to do a flight was on a rural road not much traffic with fields all around. Only area I found without power lines running along the road. I set the GPS for field flight and set the correct orientation just in case. The problem was it was a direct crosswind and it seemed more like 10-15 mph at least. I started to wait but decided to give it a go, but there was no really way to take off into the wind other than the field that was somewhat moist and not very smooth so I attempted the road with the crosswind on SAFE. She climbed out well and I verified the virtual fence works flawlessly. Wiggles the wings when it gives flight back. The problem as I anticipated is she wants to do nothing but climb over 50% power. The wind I was fighting, more throttle she gained altitude and did not want downward elevator. (I had forgot about it on low rates). I switched to intermediate mode then finally turned SAFE off but I did not have the maneuverability I was expecting from flying the Sim. I was still keeping power low at this point from having it on SAFE and trying to get her to lose altitude. When I tried the landing she got blown over toward the field. I even attempted to keep that wing low. So at a moments decision. I decided to just land it in the field it was settling on. I couldn't see completely but either a wheel caught or a wing tip and she cart wheeled when trying to land and flipped on her back. No damage other than pushing the foam inward on the rear center of wing thats under that plastic protector. The wing took the force as it shifted it guess, but that was it. I used a piece of thicker 2 sided gorilla tape to build that back up slightly reinstalled the plastic cover.
The lessons I learned though made it a productive flight.
Had it to do over again I would have flipped to high rates, did another go around and landed into the wind since I was already landing in the field. Used some power and flew it in for a landing and took control. May have been able to make a landing with the crosswind had I used the high rates. I dont know, but I have a lot to learn but looking forward to it. Bad decisions and rookie skills mixed in but I'll get there.

icharus

Hindsight plus experience would of helped your situation.
Cross winds and bad landing areas are a recipe for a disaster.
Finding a suitable flying area is tricky thats why I suggested a flying club.
But if your in a rural area you should be able to find something thats suitable, I live in the middle of California Irvine and we were able to find 100 acres next to the freeway an undeveloped unfenced industrial site which we flew for many years before they started construction we used the paved street in front of the field to take off and land and flew over the field, being an industrial area there were very few cars over the weekend even the local cops would stop by and watch us fly simple time back then.
The wind can be your friend or your enemy so respect it at all times, if the conditions are not right Don't Fly. Wait for another day!
Also keep it simple the first few times because the pucker factor is murder and fogs the brain while your trying to fly, so keep your switches and setting in the mid range and perform small moves on your sticks if you have some wind, adjust your setting as you get more comfortable with the controls and plane.
Don't forget to kill the motor as you touch the ground or are about to crash, I have seen a lot of rookies that leave their throttle full on as they are crashing which causes way more damage.
Good luck on your second attempt don't over think it fly her into the wind on a paved road get her up in the air and have fun, bring her back around into the wind over the road slow down your engine slowly keep her level with the road and allow her to slowly drop down, gravity will do the rest just keep her level with the road and she will touch down on all 3 wheels.

Letsroll...

Thanks for the advice, and sharing your wisdom and experience. Yes that was it for sure, the pucker factor I guess and lack of experience clouded some judgment calls. I definitely knew that was a bad thing with the crosswind. I should have just waited until I found an area better suited for the conditions. If the wind would’ve been going the right way, it’s not a bad place to fly. I will keep an eye on it. There is a cell tower that is right by the area that I’m flying maybe 50 yards. But I did a range check everything checked out ok. but I did set up the virtual fence to put the flying area on the other side of the road over the field. It seem like it was in a smaller area than what I was used to flying with the Sim. I guess that’s a good thing but I felt confident when up there in having control.
And I did have the throttle completely cut, I did not forget that. (Only if your landing in the field go around come into the wind idiot lol) After a few minutes of flying, I realized I screwed up when I was trying to lose altitude and come down. With that wind she does not want to lose altitude! I tried to keep my wits about me when coming down, but I let the false sense of urgency to land overcome some of my decisions. Very nice plane though, cant wait to get back up and redeem myself. But only when the conditions are right, and I have a suitable flying spot for the conditions at that time, But I am on the fence, whether to use the safe modes very much I did not like the fact it was taking my elevator from me and you could see it when it got to a certain altitude coming down., The nose would lift back up, or if it was heading into the wind you completely lost any downward elevator that you had it keeps so shallow. I was trying to resort to cutting the throttle to overcome it but when, headed into the wind right above me she came to a standstill, as far as ground speed naturally because of the right amount of wind to hold her up. But I immediately thought that it was on the verge of a stall so I give it some throttle, and actually flipped back to save at that point because I was on the edge of the perimeter. She dropped her nose and started gaining flight hitting that perimeter and did a quick 180 flying back into the field. It is very nice to use in a pickle to be able to flip back to safe and it resumes level flight. It kind of reminds me of ABS on a car. I understand that’s a great safety feature, but I’ve been driving long enough and have enough experience with driving that I have seen situations it can cause an accident. It takes the brake away from you on slippery conditions. But that’s another topic and I don’t have very much experience in this, but the fact that it takes away some of the controls. I’m trying to “use not abuse” is not very very appealing. I definitely think I will flip it off when I’m in the air and use it as a safe bed if I get out of control, possibly.

tedsander

We are legion - having that first plane, and flying alone when the excitement overcomes the better judgement. Mine was over 55 yrs ago - no one around, so I thought I would just practice taxiing. Oops, too much throttle, and I was in the air with no prior flight experience of any kind. Took a year of odd jobs to pay for the rebuild....
Surface vehicles may get damaged at times, but with aircraft, every single flight is a test to avoid complete disaster - that feeling of accomplishment in cheating death never goes away.

icharus

I was self taught as a kid no internet no cell phones no RC clubs no help just RC magazines that I would wait for impatiently and devour every page including the adds wishing i had one of everything, just getting a transmitter was a monumental struggle a Dragstar bicycle cost less, but I pumped gas every weekend earning $12 per day.
I eventually purchased my transmitter/receiver and set up my plane I knew about CG and setting up because I flew control line and watched the older kids at the park and asked a 100 questions, so there I was just like "ted sanders" taxiing on the road into the breeze next to a field no intentions of flying but gave it a little too much nitro and up she popped up about 10ft in the air I cut the engine immediately and glided down about 100ft away perfectly on her own and landed in the long grass without touching the controls the CG was perfect. Well of course I had to try that again and again gaining confidence each time and eventually I left the gas on and flew a circle and started to get scared so as she came back I cut the gas and let her glide back down onto the long grass and landed safely, I was shacking like a leaf no more courage left I took my plane home but I flew for the first time, I spent more time gluing that plane together than flying it but I eventually got enough experience to fly/land her easily until it became boring I eventually replaced her with a low wing bigger/faster sportster and flew the crap out of her all the kids in the neighborhood would line up to watch her.
By the way no ARF's back then just a box of sticks paper and dope, and if you ran out of dope then moms flour and water in a pinch would not shrink as well though.

icharus

Yes I would free hand it but before you do that trim her out so get her up in the air with the assist on get her level switch off the assist and trim her out for level flight NO left, right, up or down level if its too far out then go back to assist and land her manually trim out your surface areas and try again, once she flys true then free hand her with the assist off, you will gain a lot more experience and confidents that way.

Letsroll...

That's awesome, enjoyed reading the stories, thanks for sharing. I'm determined to get it down and be able to fly comfortably and confident. Will keep at it and practicing on the Sim.Have yet to hear from the club I reached out to. The other club I spoke to them on the phone great guy, but it's a 42 min drive from me. May just have to make the trip each time.
I did briefly try out some of the other planes on the Sim and some of them, even though based off the Cessna 150/172 basic style, flew a lot different being more difficult through the Sim. Pretty amazing they have that Sim tuned to mimic the actual plane. Some seem to have a little more roll or pitch easier and faster. Less input on the ailerons and they go!
I spotted that Draco and she is flat beautiful, I love the look of that plane and the size. I'm a big fan of red anyway, just hits me right. Very sharp...but expensive. I already have my eye on it but def want to get really comfortable before risking that purchase.
Jumped at the chance when I seen theynhad it on there. I was surprised they dont reflect it as being a powerhouse on there. Plenty of power to do whatever but not a very fast plane and seemed easy to fly similar to this Apprentice.

flyboy2610

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Yup. The good ol' days!