Secret Squirrel

Brian,
Any news on your gasser? A new 401 just arrived for mine, so will fire it up this weekend and go through what you've done so far. Just wanting to know how it's going with you.

Si

Ergo60

My Feedback: (1)

The Z is really starting to wake up now. I am on the 4th gallon and the power is smooth all around. I have not yet tried any aerobatics with it yet, just some simple stall turns. The plug is noce and tan now that I have the proper NEEDLE settings. The break in with AMSOIL seems to be going fine. Another flyer at the field is breaking in a new gasser plane right along with mine and he is using pertol based oil, and his is keeping trrack with mine as far as noticable power improvements.

It still does not have the zip that my YS powered Sport does, and I am not sure if it ever will. It is still a lot of fun to fly, and it would be awesome with a scale body on it. It has the perfect scale sound and appearance to it. I think I might try another muffler after this gallon of fuel. I was given a link to one that bolts right up to the Z230, and was made for it. I will dig up the link later. It was 200.00.

Secret Squirrel

What pitch you pulling? 10?

Ergo60

My Feedback: (1)

I will have to re-check, but I set it last for 10 positive.

Secret Squirrel

I fired up the Z230 today after a week of nights inspecting it and setting it up as per Bill M's specs.

It hasn't been flown for about six months so I wanted to be sure that it was still ok.

I also took great care to set up the throttle linkage as per Bill's specs, ensuring that everything was linear, that the throttle finished moving before pitch etc.

I decided to use 80:1 ratio on Belray synthetic oil.

I also set it up for the first time on my 9Z.

Finally the wether came right for a while so I was able to fuel it up and give it a try.

It fired up and I let it idle a while. It sat there pretty happy and quite smokey so it was nice and rich. I spooled it up and adjusted the tracking.

I adjusted the throttle so that the heli hovered at 5.5 degrees. This resulted in a hover throttle position of about 30% power.
The heli is running rich at this position, pretty much continually four stroking.

I hovered about like this for a tank.

Next tank I continued to hover about, but also did a few climbouts and was astounded that it was actually pulling the 10 degrees! I had previously only really been able to pull about 7-8.

Another tank and this time a bit of forward flight and the big heli stormed around the sky pretty good! Pulling up into full stick climbs combined with rudder and the engine just sounded like it was cutting up a log, I was very impressed. By far, it was running the best it's ever run while I've had it!

In descents the engine ran quite rough, which I attribute to not being under load with the throttle curve at about 26% power.

So far, I'm quite impressed that the heli has obviously picked up some power from somewhere.

Here's a picture of the plug, and one of the throttle linkage.

Si

[BREAK}

Ergo60

My Feedback: (1)

Thats a mighty pretty looking plug. It looks just like mine, and I am getting pretty good power now as well. Bills setup is the best, once you get it right. I am pulling 10 at the top as well.

When you do a nice fast pass along the runway it has the most awesome sound to it. I think you described it the best on your site as having "A field presence unlike any other helicopter".

What are your needle settings like right now?

You mention that is 4 strokes at hover, does it do this at the end of the tank as well?

On mine it will be a little rough when it is first lit up, but at the end of the flight it is as smooooooth as silk, so I am wondering if maybe I am a little to lean on the low end needle.

Secret Squirrel

Brian,
At the moment my bottom needle is so rich it pretty much constantly 4 strokes and during descents it really burps and farts. However, I was leaving it like that until I got a couple more tanks in it.
My needles are 1 3/8's on bottom and 1 1/8 on top I believe.

Keep an eye on your head dampeners, I think mine may have been a bit worn and that's why it was rolling crazy.

Si

Josh

Hi everyone, having just found this forum, i've been soaking up some great info from you guys. Thanks very much.
I am having trouble setting up my Z23 to lift about 5Lbs of camera without bogging and being really quite guttless!
I have 700 blades on and needles set to L 1 1\4 and H 1 turn.
I can't seem to bring the throttle on early enough to get it into the hover, ( it's up to about 70% thottle at the hover) this dosen't leave much for acceleration!!

I am running synthetic oil at 40:1 and the engine has had about 5 gallons through it so far.

Anyone got any idea's on curves or needle settings out there??

Secret Squirrel

Do what Brian and I have done, it's really seemed to have made a difference for my Z230 at least. Try running 80:1 Amsoil, richen up the top needle a fraction and make sure your throttle linkage looks good.

Si

Ergo60

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, you need to make sure you get the throttle setup correct. It made a world of difference in mine. My throttle ATV's are at 75/75 and the pitch ATV's are at 100/100. What this means is that my throttle moves quite a bit quicker than the pitch so the throttle "Leads" pitch changes.

Alll I can say is to use the settings and oil that Bill Meadors recomends. After using his settings the helicopter started to make really good power.

I run AMSOIL at about 80:1, The high needle at 1-1/16 out and the low needle at 1-3/8 out, I will have to re-check the low end since I have not had to change that one in a while and I may be a little off. I use the NGK plug BMRK??? ANd currently I am swinging 680mm CMT glass blades.

Performance since using Bills setup hase been great when compared to how it was when I started. Check out my site(link in sig) for more info. Also there is a place out there that make a pipe specifically for the Z when hauling camera equipment. I dont have a link but it was in a post somewhere.

C R A I G O

Hi all good reading this info it has inspired me to get my gasser out and i gave it a run today, its an xcell gasser simon has seen it run and yes ill have it out at the fly-in at Taupo NZ July Simon.
got to get the plug gap right too,i run Motul 800 racing 2t oil mixed at 30 to 1 and a plug gap of .025 ive changed the muffler too its supplied by miniture aircraft.ive had a 2 blade head and a three blade head on it,they both have run ok its not bad for aerobatics Regards Craig

Secret Squirrel

Glad to hear you're going to get the Xcell out again Craig!
This machine is blessed eh. At a funfly I watched it fall out of the sky (ran out of gas didn't it Craig?) and a tree caught it! Craig shook it out of the tree, re-attached a link and fired it up again!

Will definately see you at Taupo Craig! I think I may have sold my gasser, if so, it will be replaced by a Standard Vigor with a Webra 91 I think.

Si

Josh

Great!,
Thanks for that stuff on settings, I'll set up as recomended and give it a whirl. It also looks like I've been running incorrect oil mixes so that should help.
I'll get back to you after I've been up, cheers,
Josh.

Josh

Secret S, Bill and Brian,
I’ve just been out and flown with the settings as described by Bill in his article.
Finally I’m enjoying flying this gasser!!!
I couldn’t hold back with hovering, and started blasting around on the first tank. I know it’s probably not what you are supposed to do but it just felt so much more stable and powerful.
It still bogs a bit during full climbs but I haven’t spent any time on playing with curves yet, and it’s carrying 5lb of dead weight.
After a couple more tanks I’ll pull the plug and have a look. I’m running rock oil at 70:1 at the moment.
Will let you know how I get on.
Cheers, Josh.

Billme

Josh,
What is Rock oil?

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

I had my gasser out. I tried the needle settings Bill suggested in his article. Amsoil 100:1 and the 700 mm CF blades. It flies really great! I have been having a lot of fun with the old girl. I have to admit that i don't notice that much difference in how the blades fly over my woodies. But there is overlap of the TR disk and MR disk. If I did an auto with a real hard landing they might meet. Ooops my tairrotor stops in an auto. Whats the easy way to fix this?
Do I let them trim them selves? New tail boom and all the other junk or shorter TR blades?
Thank you Bill for your help. I still don't quite understand the throttle set up. I use JR so I am not familiar with your terms.

Billme

Hi elmshoot,
Your Xcell will fly better with the longer blades, and boom(31.5'') I would get it, and keep the 700's

I'm glad you notice an improvement...what is it on the throttle setup you don't understand?

Unless you have constant tail drive, your tail blades will stop..

Regards,
Bill

Josh

Bill,
Rock oil is a fully synthetic 2 stroke oil from the UK. I have quite a bit of it so would like to use it if I can.
I was out again today, and finding that to hover a machine of this weight (18Lb) I need a pitch of about 7 degrees!! I’m still playing with the best curves for it but the plug is looking a fine tan colour at the moment so things are all good.

Josh

Sorry guy's but I couldn't take the unpridictability of idle and couching and burping on descents.
I have re-set my machine to a little richer than factory settings at 25/1.
Cheers, Josh

Secret Squirrel

When running Bill's setup I never had any problems with the idle. Idled fine.

Billme

Josh,
You should have a very good idle...Some folks thought I had electric start on my machine at HeatWave.:
Anyway, You might want to get with Len Mount...He watched everything that I was doing at this contest, plus setup some machines....
I don't know about the Rock oil, but I do know that Amsoil works as advertised...If you set the needles like i said, then you probally need to do some work on the throttle curve....
BTW, If you do run those needle setting running that much oil, you'll stick a ring....
Regards,
Bill

Josh

Bill,
Who is Len Mount?
I think I may leave these settings for a while longer to sort the heli setup a little better then play with it a little more then.
Cheers, Josh.

Billme

Len Mount is a R/C helicopter Icon over there...One of the Worlds top Scale builder also..
Regards
Bill.

Josh

oops, guess I should have known that!
Thanks Bill I'll kep fiddling wth my jets.
Josh.

stevenyc1

I had an XL gasser years back- still my favorite chopper to date!

Has anyone seen anyone do any serious 3D'ing with one? I'd love to see some video of someone doing some crazy aerobatics and 3D'ing with one.

Hmmm, now i'm starting to want a gasser (has to be an XL)....see what you guys started!